Trading Systems in 'New Concepts In Technical Trading Systems' by J. Welles Wilder

Trading Systems Free Forex Trading Systems
1894

Good evening Dale,
don’t worry, I’m here. Just “crunching” stuff.
Big news: you know, I’m a bit “soft” for the parabolic SAR (you remember where you picked me up, isn’t it?).
The metatrader indicator isn’t Wilder’s. I MADE IT!!! Let me make some more tests, and I’ll post it.
It’s really different from the others (how many: 5, 6, 7…?) that I found around. Not necessarily “better” (let me test it, again). But at least it is “Wilder’s”, and at last we can eventually blame (LOL, LOL, LOL!!!) him for “his” stuff (and not for the scrambled, as probably 99,9% of his detractors make).

Well, actually I’m not sure how to go on beyond that. There is an idea in my mind, and namely to open a new thread with a title like “[I]Wilder and beyond for the part-time trader[/I]”. Given my personal situation and the limited trade time available, I feel no more perfectly “fitting” with your “style”. Please, don’t get me wrong! YOU are my best friend and mentor, and I will be ALWAYS thankful to you and all the other super-guys here for all the precious things you gave me. If I finally decide to make such a thing, all will be welcome and actually it would be a honour getting your inputs.
BUT:
[ul]
[li] THIS thread is really “dedicated” to Wilder. I must admit I have no more a “blind faith” in his methods as they are (much more in YOURS Dale, 'cause I think they are NOT JUST Wilder’s).
[/li][li] This sort of “lack of blind faith” relates also to the fact that, given my “very part-time” nature, I would like to have something, if possible, “more efficient” than the numbers discussed on the previous DMS posts. I mean: you can surely obviate to this problem with a wider screening for opportunities. But I have no time for such a task: I need to concentrate on eight-ten instruments. For stocks / options it is different because there are zillions of automatic “screeners” around. None for “the good DMS setup across all currency pairs available” (and good means “with all the careful criteria identified by Mr. Paterson”). Further I’m a bit scared by exotic stuff like pairs with a huge spread (spread = commissions… and then I’m better off with my options, again).
[/li][li] THEREFORE, in my mind, “this other” thread would be (AGAIN!!! LOL) quite “experimental”, trying to combine the nice indicators, and above all the “scientific” nature of Wilder’s analysis and of this thread’s discussion, with something else (…I wandered a bit about, you know); and have a quite strong tendency towards “automation” discussions ('cause we “poor” part-timers would really like to have an electronic assistant).
[/li][li] In conclusion I don’t know whether such kind of discussion would be more a contribution or a distraction in THIS ONE thread. Perhaps it’s better keeping things separate.
[/li][/ul]

This DOES NOT MEAN that I’m “going”…! But perhaps keeping, also in my mind, some nice distinction. And possibly showing up here less often.

Let me know your (=all) opinion about it.

Bye

Fabio

1895

Good (Friday) morning ‘traitor’ (Fabio)!!!

THAT SAID: once all your ‘tweaks’ to ‘the old mans’ systems have wiped out your account PLEASE KNOW that you’ll ALWAYS be welcome back here!!!

NOW I THINK YOU KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH BY NOW TO KNOW that I am ONLY JOKING!!! LOL!!!

Look: if you want to start another thread to keep YOUR stuff seperate from this then by ALL means (and I’m ALSO SURE that you know that NO permission is needed from ANYONE)!!! If you do this you can BE SURE that we’ll ALL be following YOUR thread with keen interest as well. The ONLY THING I have to say is this though: BE CAREFUL with too many ‘tweaks’ and the like. Believe me I’ve learned the hard way. You must also remember that these trading systems may or MAY NOT be the best and most profitable around BUT they are the only ones that work FOR ME. For all I and you know: you may develop a trading system or two BASED on Wilder’s stuff that works and works FAR BETTER than the original systems and I HOPE YOU DO for your sake (and who knows: if what you develop is ‘technical enough’ and MORE profitable than the originals and is of such a design so as to keep a trader like myself ‘in check’ then I’ll join you no question)!!!

Please DO let us all see your ‘CORRECT’ MT4 Parabolic SAR. It’s something I’ve always been interested to see i.e. the ‘correct Wilder version’ versus the ‘nonsense’ put out by MT4 but I’ve never found a ‘correct version’ nor do I have the MT4 expertise to code one. (More out of curiosity for me i.e. I could not be happier with Delta I must tell you and as the days go by I thank GOODNESS that I found them).

Whatever you decide: I will help and support you in any way that I can.

NOW:

To everyone that CAN trade Crude Oil Futures:

I found out something yesterday that I did not know before and it’s really something that you have to think about very carefully if you’re going to trade oil:

The Crude Oil Futures Contracts as you may or may not know ‘expire’ monthly. What this means to YOU and ME is this: if you have a position open on oil at the expiry date then your position is closed AUTOMATICALLY and any profit or loss is REALIZED there and then. Delta has added a ‘feature’ called ‘Auto Futures Rollover’ BUT BE CAREFUL because ALL THIS MEANS is that instead of simply CLOSING OUT your current position on the current contract at expiry they will open a NEW position on the NEW contract at the NEW price. I did not know this until now. I was always under the impression that if you had a position open on oil and the contract expired then the current position had to be closed (as I understand it: this to make SURE that Delta does not receive a couple of barrels of oil on their doorstep) BUT I THOUGHT that whatever profit or loss was showing on the current position would be ‘adjusted’ and ‘carried over’ to the new contract. Delta is telling me that this is NOT SO. SO: I’ve now had to take a nearly $300 ‘hit’ on Oil (sorry folks) because there is no point in waiting for the current contract expiry date i.e. the price of oil is NOT going to reach what my breakeven point was before the expiry of the current contract and could in fact get worse. I have NO DOUBT that HAD I BEEN ABLE TO HOLD THE POSITION then EVENTUALLY it would have turned to nice profit (I bought oil at $40) BUT because of this ‘issue’ I am not able to hold the position. NOW FABIO: MAYBE you can shed some light on this for me (us). What I DO NOT understand is HOW IN THE HELL a person can trade oil ‘long term’ if what Delta is telling me is correct??? In other words: if you were a LONG TERM INVESTOR in oil then HOW could you buy oil today at say $34.53 and simply ‘hold’ the position for as long as you wanted (as would the likes of Jim Rogers)???

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

Edit:

Further to the above I’ve just contacted GCI’s Dealing Desk and they have told me that if you have an open position on oil at contract expiry date then NOTHING happens to the position i.e. the position simply gets carried over to the new price WITHOUT it being closed. In other words: if I had a position open on oil at $40 per barrel and the new contract price was $45 per barrel then the position would simply reflect a $5 gain (this is as I understand it however). Could SOMEONE, ANYONE, shed some light on this subject. Something does not make sense to me here EITHER i.e. if the current oil contract is trading at $40 at expiry and I can SEE from other websites that the new contract is trading at $45 then what would there be stopping me from opening a position on oil MINUTES before expiry at $40 KNOWING FULL WELL that the position is going to be ‘rolled over’ at / to $45 per barrell???

1896

Oh Dale!
Don’t call me “traitor”: I’m going to cry!! LOL LOL!

Thanks for the nice words, and thanks for the encouragement. Let’s see what I will manage to do.

Then: shortly. pSAR will be here as soon as I manage. With all the controls for which I will kindly ask you a verification.

Second: thanks for asking about expiration. Anyway I think you’re speaking about futures, which I never traded and do not know very well. You know I’m an “optionist”. Well, if you find options for crude, then trading them long term is quite easy: you just buy the ones with a long time-to-expiration. For stocks, for instance, there are such kind of options called LEAPS, that have even 3 years of life (not for all stocks). I don’t know whether such things exist also in the futures world.

That said, the story is much more complicated, because such “expiring” instruments are priced not only depending on the value of the underlying security/commodity price action, but also based on their “time value”, that is a variable that is going down with time, [I]independently[/I] from the movements of the underlying. Good feature is that this “time decay” is very very slow when expiration is far away in the future, and increases exponentially with expiration coming closer and closer. Typically there is a significant movement in the last month before expiration…

And this is great news if you’re SHORT of such a thing (but [B]be careful!!![/B] You [U]must[/U] be covered by something long!)

Just the last thing: for these reasons, you might be surprised, at least for options (I think for futures it is much different) playing directionally is not the only choice. Sometimes, rather, the “non-directional” game is more profitable and interesting: you profit of time decay as long as the price remains range-bound, like an insurer, that eats a bit of your premium [I]every day[/I] that you’re not having an accident (which, by the way, is what you and he reasonably hope won’t happen so frequently!!! :D)

More about that whenever you (all, not just Dale, of course) want! (Somewhere else or in this thread? This is the question!).

Bye

Fabio

1897

Hello, and thanks for the information. NOT THAT IT’S HELPED ME THOUGH!!! LOL!!!

My point is this (and what I don’t understand):

Well actually: after your explanation maybe I DO understand (sort of).

In other words (maybe THIS is what you’re saying):

If I wanted to take a long term position on Crude Oil Futures then I would need to have the option of trading, as an example, the December 2009 contract which would only expire in December 2009 so any position that I took NOW on the December 2009 contract would stay open until THEN (unless I myself closed it out of course). Correct??? Which brings me to my point then: you CANNOT (by the looks of things) take a long term position on Crude Oil Futures AT DELTA because they only offer the CURRENT MONTH contract. Would THAT be a correct assumption? (I’ve, in the meantime, contacted them about this to tell them that I’m not happy at all about it i.e. it makes NO sense at all to trade Crude Oil Futures at Delta if this IS the case. Either THAT or I am not understanding what they’re telling me OR THEY are not understanding what I’m asking THEM).

You see: I had a position open on Oil at Delta. I got ‘in’ long at $40. (I have to admit that this was NOT a ‘Wilder system trade’ BUT with Oil being where it is I was prepared to take the chance and make use of the ‘ATRTrailingStop’ and / or the ‘YoYoStop’ indicators for safety and I could have held the position without ‘getting into trouble’ even if Oil DID go down to $20). My intention was simply to hold that position (if not stopped out by the ‘ATRTrailingStop’ and / or the ‘YoYoStop’) until the position showed a ‘nice profit’. BUT NOW I’ve had NO CHOICE BUT to either close the position MYSELF (which I’ve done and realized a loss because I doubt very much that Oil is going to get to $40 again before the current months contract expires) OR wait for DELTA to close the position (presumably ALSO at a loss) on the actual date of expiry of the current months contract WHEREAS at a broker like GCI for example: my position would simply have been ‘rolled over’ (P/L and all) and I’d still be ‘in’ my long position. As I said: I just ASSUMED that the position (at Delta) would simply be ‘rolled over’ (P/L and all) to the next months contract AND the next months contract PRICE (which, if higher, would of course result in a profit ANYWAY). Apparantely this is NOT so AT DELTA. I need a DEFINITIVE answer on this because I’m ‘pis*ed’ about it!!!

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

Edit:

OK. Sorted. DO NOT trade Crude Oil Futures at Delta IF YOU INTEND TO TRADE Crude Oil Futures LONG TERM i.e. longer than a month. From what I’ve now managed to find out: Delta ONLY OFFERS the CURRENT MONTH CONTRACT as an instrument to trade (and remember that each contract is a DIFFERENT and SEPERATE instrument i.e. it’s like ‘two different forex pairs’ and the one has nothing to do with the other). HOW the other brokers like GCI and AVAFX ‘get around’ this issue I do not know (unless whatever contract you’re trading at either GCI or AVAFX is ALREADY a WAY ‘into the future’ contract although I don’t then see why they would go to the trouble of detailing the contract expiry dates on their websites).

YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OUT THERE FOLKS!!! I’ll bet that my NOT understanding various ‘little things’ along the way has ALSO cost me a reasonable amount of money so BEWARE and BE AWARE!!!

1898

Hi Dale:

If I wanted to take a long term position on Crude Oil Futures then I would need to have the option of trading, as an example, the December 2009 contract which would only expire in December 2009

Yes, I think this is correct.

so any position that I took NOW on the December 2009 contract would stay open until THEN (unless I myself closed it out of course)

…of course: that’s 100% right. Given that such a future exists… But I think it’s very likely.

you CANNOT (by the looks of things) take a long term position on Crude Oil Futures AT DELTA because they only offer the CURRENT MONTH contract. Would THAT be a correct assumption?

I’m really NOT AWARE of what’s exactely going on at Delta, and still less about what’s going on there about futures on commodities… so, sorry but can’t tell anything.

Just a warning: again, I don’t know much about futures. But for options, if you buy let’s say a 100 call on IBM with expiration in Dec09, you will pay far more money than the same contract (IBM 100C) of March 09. This depends on the fact that the time value of the Dec is much more than of Mar, or, in other words, that there is a lot more probability that the Dec option will expire “in the money” ( = IBM value will be more than 100 $) than in March, and you’ll pay for this higher probability.

I have no idea on how futures are priced, but I think there will be some similar mechanism.

Bye, hope this helps a bit more

F

1899

Hokay!!!

It’s Friday evening and everything is CLOSED!!!

In order to ‘clear up’ this Crude Oil issue:

I received the following email from Delta’s dealing desk:

The Crude Oil futures are financial instruments traded on the stock exchange and as all futures they have an expiry date. It is a general practice, on the stock exchange, to close the old futures on its expiry date since it seizes to exist. There is no automatic rollover. Maybe this is where the misunderstanding comes from. I cannot competely understand the example you gave with CGI, because you cannot hold a position for an instrument that is no longer offered for trade and therefore has no price.

Example: If you buy 1000 barrels in WTI0309 at 40 USD your balance will be 40 000 USD. If the price drops to 39 USD, on the expiry date, then your balance will drop to 39 000 USD. In theory, if your position is kept open after the expiry date your balance will drop to 0 since there will be no one to buy the futures. Probably GCI does not show this transaction and simply displays the result in to your account. I assume that this is done as follows: You buy the same amount of WIT039 at 40 USD and the price drops to 39 USD then your balance will drop to 39000 USD. What happens is that the WTI0309 is replaced with WTI0409 at 46 USD and the whole result is applied to your account. The only difference with us is that you are able to view the separate operations.

You cannot keep an active position on a nonexistent financial instrument. Please, keep in mind that every futures has a different maturity date.

If you buy WTI0309 at 34.41 you will not be able to trade it for WTI0609. This is exactly the same as buying Lehman Brothers shares and trading them for Microsoft shares.

The price of the futures is determined on the interest rates and the delivery costs. The closest to expiry date future is the one for March and its price is closest to the spot price. The price of every other future will go up since the payed interest is calculated to the price.

This can more easily be explained with currencies. For example you buy 100 000 USD/CFH and you keep the position open for one year. For example if the I interest rate remains the same and the swap calculated to your position is 0,31 pips, then you will have to pay 0,31 x 360 = 111.6 pips. If the spot price of the USD/CHF currency pair is 1,3000 you will be buying at 1,3000+ 0,01116=1,31116. And this will be the price at which your futures will be quoted. To open the position on the next day you will have to pay a swap of 359x0.31 and so on. After 360 days the spot price and the futures price will be one and the same.

If you wish to keep your USD/CHF position open for two years you will have to pay a swap of 360x2x0,31=223,2 pips and the price for that future will be 1,3000+0,02232=1,322232. Therefore there will be no difference whether you close your position and reopen it for another year or buy a two year future in the first place.

If you buy USD/CHF at a spot price of 1,300 and you sell a future with a one year maturity at 1,31116, then in reality you will not have an open position, since you will have to pay daily a swap of 0,31 pips and profit 0,31 pips from the falling price of the future (111.6-111.6 = 0)

I intentionaly gave you this rough example with the USD/CHF currency pair as I believe it is easier to understant. The further in time the expiry date of the future, the more expensive it will be. This comes from the paid interest rates, the delivery fees, the higher risk of changing the interest rates and so on. I hope that with those examples I managed to clarify you will be able to keep a Crude Oil future open for a longer time period and that it makes no difference to you whether you buy a 6 month future or automatically rolling your position over each month.

I would say that this ‘clear it up once and for all’.

Of course: I STILL have to wonder how GCI gets ‘around’ this issue. (Who knows: maybe I did not understand what THEY were telling me either)!!!

Anyway: it’s all good.

The point REALLY is this: KNOW the instruments you’re trading!!!

And as it TURNS OUT OF COURSE: ‘Murphy’ and his ‘law’ were at play i.e. I see Oil climbed to above $37 today (and WHO KNOWS it may EVEN make $40 which WAS my BE point)!!!

Anyway: I hope you all had a good week. ASIDE from OIL things were not TOO bad (not as good as the week before) BUT I believe that this will still be a good month.

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

1900

Balances at the close on 2009/02/13:

Capital Balance: $2 507.

Open Posisitons: -$944.

Nett: $1 563.

Capital Required: $89 635 (Exchange rates for GBP/USD and EUR/USD adjusted).

Guarantees Required: $191 603 (Exchange rates for GBP/USD and EUR/USD adjusted).

NETT percentage loss INCLUDING open positions: 20.7%.

NETT percentage gain EXCLUDING open positions: 27.2%.

My apologies folks. As described above: I took a FAIR SIZE loss on Crude Oil. It won’t happen again. All of the open positions are still ‘good to go’ as far as the trading systems are concerned so I believe that this month WILL INDEED still be a good month IN SPITE of my loss on Crude Oil.

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

1901

Hallo people,

The point REALLY is this: KNOW the instruments you’re trading!!!

Well said, Dale, well said. This is why I “keep my fingers away” from futures, at least in the moment.

Just a brief update. I’ve discovered a bug in my pSAR indicator. On historical data it is performing very well, and I am convinced the “core” algorithm is “good Wilder’s” (and definitely the others around are NOT). Perhaps I could start sending you some tests.

The problem is that, on the current bar, it “repaints”, meaning that it jumps up and down till closure. That’s of course amazingly bad, because it means that this is not an instrument for taking decisions.

This fact has to do with the technicalities of metatrader and MQL programming, and I’m very confident that, alone or with the help of some “guru” (mladen… if he wants; others here at BP or in the MQL forum, J?? Are you still there J? Have you experience in MQL?), I will fix it. But this means: still homework on my side (don’t be surprised if I show up less often!) and patience from yours, 'cause I don’t want to share bulls*1t!

Bye for now!

Fabio

Edit: from Delta’s reply, anyway, I would say I was not so far from having guessed how futures work, comprising the higher price of long lasting ones. Isn’t it? :wink:

1902

Good (Saturday) morning all (and ‘HALLO’ Fabio)!!!

Fabio:

I’d not worry too much about Parabolic SAR being ‘repainted’ on the current bar. First of all: just about EVERY SINGLE Parabolic SAR indicator I’ve seen does this (even the two that I know to be 100% correct i.e. GCI/ACTForex and Delta). And second: one should ONLY EVER be entering or exiting a trade AFTER THE CLOSE anyway. You’ll never get it to stop ‘repainting’ just because of the way it’s calculated. The only thing that you CAN do is eliminate the display of the signal altogether on the last bar.

And yes: it would seem that you ‘guessed well’ regarding the futures contracts (of anything). TWO things that STILL do NOT make sense to me: the Dow is ALSO traded in ‘contracts’ so how come THESE positions don’t get closed or ‘rolled over’ AND HOW does GCI get around the Oil ‘thing’ UNLESS, because THEY are the marketmaker, then you are simply trading a ‘pseudo’ Oil contract as it were i.e. they’re just adjusting THEIR Oil quotes to whatever the price is of the current contract. If this is the case: good or bad or no difference??? OR MAYBE: it’s not Crude Oil FUTURES contracts but the ACTUAL price (not sure if there is such a thing)??? Come to think of it: MAYBE it’s time for me to contact ‘rhodytrader’ (John Forman) and ask him ‘on these things’. Good idea I think!!!

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

Edit:

This ‘Oil issue’!!!

This is how GCI does things:

GCI Financial Ltd - Online Forex and CFD Trading

To clarify:

NO YOU CANNOT simply go long TODAY (expiry date of the current month contract) because you already KNOW what the price of the new months contract is (up) and expect to make a profit. Essentially what happens is that whatever the difference in price is gets ‘charged’ to your account so you’ll neve ‘make’ money doing this (so it’s NOT like getting TOMORROW lottery numbers TODAY). That said: I believe that this is a preferable method to be honest i.e. keeping the position open. Whether or not it actually results in the exact same thing I do not know (the only OBVIOUS thing is that GCI does not make commission every month)!!!

1903

Dear people,
a good week to everybody.
Here we are with the pSAR for Metatrader.

First: Dale, I cannot agree with you about the “non-importance” of the repainting last dot. And I explain not to contradict you, but for repeating another time the “logic” behind Wilder’s timing and indicators for forex (at least on metatrader). So that: if it’s wrong, let’s try altogether to fix it.
Also for pSAR (as for TBPS), there is always a certain effort to be made for translating in univocal terms what Wilder calls “yesterday, today and tomorrow”. What he always calculates is the pSAR for “tomorrow” (and he puts it in the corresponding cell in the “next row” of his worksheet). Now, with closing markets, like commodities, “tomorrow” is immediately evident. My interpretation, for the forex-never-closing market, is that this “tomorrow” must be interpreted as the “newly opened, not yet concluded bar”, where you cannot really recognize, yet, a proper “high or low”. In daily timeframe, this corresponds to the “current day bar”. I recognize as “Wilder’s today” bar the just concluded, where you have a definitive high, low and close, and you base your calculation of the pSAR value on these fixed values. Eventually also the data of “yesterday”, that is the bar before the last completed, must be taken in account for avoiding SAR coming back above/below the extreme value, as explained in the book. So, in conclusion, in metatrader terms, the “today” bar corresponds to the one with index 1, the “yesterday” the one with index 2, and the “tomorrow” (the one that is currently “moving”), to the one with index 0. �Tomorrow� is the currently forming bar.

Therefore, it is VERY BAD if the dot of the “current - tomorrow - 0” bar starts jumping up and down while ticks are incoming. If you use pSAR for instance for stop loss this can mean that you will be stopped out from your position, and suddenly, after a few seconds, you’d have to be “in” again… Not nice LOL!

Don’t worry: the issue has been fixed!!!

But before going on, let me make a bit of autocelebration!!! :eek:

Around there, you can probably find dozens of pSAR for MT4. I looked quite a lot for them. Well: I did not find a correct one! Most of them, as well as most of MT4 code, are written by a wonderful team of East-Europeans. I really esteem them. They are the people with the “deepest” logic that I know: Russians are by far the best chess players around, and this is not just a case. BUT, unfortunately, at least for me the method they have for “externalizing” their logic is also TOO DEEP. So I started smashing my head against a wall for some weeks, in the unfortunate attempt to understand the logic behind their code. Just for fun: I actually found also one of those guys claiming to have created a version of the pSAR code, �easy to understand� in order to facilitate other people modifying it and adapting to their needs� Well, it was a chunk of about 200 lines, with six comments (in Russian, but fortunately google translate helps!) and about 20 variables that you had to scroll up and down twenty times for understanding where they were defined and changed.

END of the story: I trashed all and decided to CODE IT ACCORDING TO MY POOR, but at least for me, PLAIN logic. And fairly comment it�

The result:
In the included picture you can find the comparison of �my� (we�ll see: probably �Wilder�s� ) SAR (RED) and the standard (BLUE) included with the MT4 distribution (others around are still weirder). I think the difference is quite evident. With the script you can go on comparing quite extensively�.

Demonstration:
Is �my� pSAR corresponding to Wilder�s? How this indicator compares to the standard MT4?
As you know I have a quite simple script writing quotes and indicator values of the last 200 days on a particular instruments out to a file. In the attached documents you find pSARstandard.pdf including the values of the �standard� MT4 indicator and pSAR_fab.pdf with the data of this new indicator. These are printouts of excel files. In the first 4 columns you find: date, high, low (�real quotes� so the input data for indicator and manual calculations) and pSAR as given by the indicators. The five columns on the right report the �semi-manual� calculations performed as per the book (Wilder�s worksheet). I say semi-manual because, after coding a lot of C++/like, I did not want to dig also into the super-nested IF statements required in excel for making a fully automatic pSAR calculation. So, please, help me, and take a calculator and try to see if, these less than 30 data really make �Wilder�s sense� to you too.
If you take the �standard� indicator, you might notice that, for instance on may 27 (it�s always 2008), there is a mistake, because the algorithm does not increment the AF. The extreme point hasn�t changed (and this is right), but AF should be increased, according Wilder, because price made indeed a new high. Then, I cannot really understand why there is the SAR on May 30, given that the low does not hit the pSAR level.
By converse, according to my semi-manual calculations, there is no difference between the output of my script and the Wilder�s values, as you see in the other worksheet. And you can go on comparing �my� values with the standard indicator�s.

Code:
You find enclosed also the script. I release it here, because I think it is generally wrong letting people losing money or blaming Wilder for what�s not his stuff. It�s different from an EA, where eventually I could also be blamed for having helped people making disasters: this is just an indicator, and everybody must assume his/her own responsibility for using it. Probably you can also have a look to the algorithm (I hope it�s quite well commented) and suggest improvements or corrections. Hope that the �sharing attitude� would spread around�
By no means would I say my indicator is �better� than the others around in terms of �producing money�. It is well possible that the versions I found around were already modifications thought as an �improvement� of the results obtained with �pure Wilder�. This is a subject I plan to go on discussing elsewhere. The thing I want to reach here is just to have �the original, pure, simple Wilder�s thingy�, and then eventually go on from then� And possibly in an easy understandable way, �cause a little problem (for me�) of the �improved versions� I found around is that� what for the hell do they mean? Where is the improvement? Why and how was it made? I hope at least that my code will speak a bit about itself!

Bye

Fabio

pSAR.zip (225 KB)

1904

By the way,

Ryan - Rekaatz, I sent you a PM concerning your request for the TBPS on the address indicated by the BP administrators.

I’m ready to send you what you ask/need, but would like to have a confirmation of your personal address.

Please show up!

(sorry for the non-concerned)!

Bye

Fabio

1905

Good (Monday) morning everyone.

BY THE WAY Fabio:

Well FIRST:

WELL DONE on your ‘Parabolic SAR quest’!!! Well done!!! I’d ALMOST be prepared to wager that YOUR MT4 Parabolic SAR is the ONLY CORRECT ONE ‘floating around’!!!

Now JUST IN CASE you think I’m DUMB:

Let me QUALIFY WHY I said that the re-painting of the last / current / todays bar is / was not an issue.

I ALWAYS make the assumption that a trader will be watching his charts ‘roll’ / CLOSE at the INSTANT that they do. In other words: for me it’s never been a problem because I would use the value of the new Parabolic SAR signal as soon as it appeared as the stop value. But yes: if you look at your chart a few hours later the signal MAY or MAY NOT have moved and if you’ve solved this problem then ‘good on you’!!!

And BY THE WAY:

It would seem that I ‘misrepresented’ Delta’s Parabolic SAR in my previous post as well i.e. Delta’s Parabolic SAR DOES NOT repaint itself EVER (it was only GCI/AVAFX/ACTForex and, of course, MT4 where I’d noticed this before). Sorry 'bout that!!!

As far as BUSINESS goes:

I HATE days like today!!! With it being Presidents Day and all (how’d YOU like to get a public holiday IN YOUR HONOUR just two weeks after starting your new ‘job’???) everything is moving SLOWLY in ranges!!! NO MONEY HONEY!!!

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

1906

Good morning Dale, let me shed a little interesting tidbit on the above. First off, President’s day is NOT for the current president, its for Lincoln and Washington, and for some reason (probably fear of having as many holidays as other countries) the good ol’ US combined the two into a single day in honor of both. Of course, the part that really irks me is that we still for some unknown reason teach our children that George Washington was the FIRST president of the United States. Do the math here, we declared independence in 1776, yet Washington began as president in 1789. So we have thirteen years of presidents (You can google Peyton Randolph as he was the first president) until we came up with the Constitution, which when you clarify Washington was the first president of the US under the Constitution, but NOT the FIRST president of the United States.

Why is this important, well for most it probably isn’t, but IF you really want to be a trader, you need to pay attention to the details. Why does a system work for someone but not another when they follow the same rules? Because they don’t have all the clarifications such as above.

Well it just irks me to see how history is distorted in our country, and quite frequently done to suit the needs/message of the masses at the time, which only lets things continue getting worse (like our wonderful current financial predicament).

Oh well, I digress… Back to your regularly scheduled Wilder discussions… :slight_smile:

1907

LOL!!!

And THANK YOU CRAIG for clearing that up for me!!! Interesting I must say. You live and learn!!!

Well let me put it THIS way:

I don’t give a ‘sh*t’ WHO the day honors: it’s ONE LESS DAY to try and make money in this business!!!

Of course (on the other hand): it ALWAYS DOES go to remind me (and ‘stick it’ to the ‘naysayers’) that New York IS INDEED and ALWAYS WILL BE ‘The Financial Capital Of The World’!!! (I have not told anyone this befroe but the other day I found a GENUINE and HUGE American flag in a closet here so I’ve put it up in my office i.e. it reminds of the NYSE and all things good. All I need now are miniatures of ‘the bull and the bear’ and models of a yellow cab and a black limo and I’m ‘set’)!!! (LOL!!! And speaking of ‘memorabilia’: DO YOU KNOW, that I saw on TV the other day, that someone paid $40 000, I think it was, for the Enron ‘E’ on an auction)!!!

Regards,

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

1908

hey fabio I sent you an email a couple of days ago cofirming my email address. Did you get it?

thanks

Ryan

1909

My email address is <[email protected]> if you send me your mailing address, I would be happy to send you a couple of 12" busts of a bull and a bear at no cost to you. I will be happy to share with you that which I also have on my trading desk, (I bought 2 pairs).

Glad to know there is another place the Stars & Stripes has found a home.

Wish you good health and all the best life has to offer.

Good pippin,

Chubs

1910

Good (Tuesday) morning all.

Well: I see things ‘came to life’ last night (not in my favor though but ‘alive’ nonetheless)!!!

Hey Chubs:

That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever offered to do for me (well: ASIDE from entrusting me with their hard earned cash of course)!!! Thank you but it’s not necessary. Believe me: I know from experience that it will cost you / I more to send those things out here than the items themselves cost (if they’re not sent by door-to-door courier they’ll in all probability never arrive on MY doorstep and the courier companies ‘see us coming’ a MILE away when it comes to charging)!!!

Tell you WHAT though: why don’t you take a picture of them and upload the images here (or email them to me)!!! That would be nice (and ALMOST the same thing) and I can always add them to my ‘things to see every morning to keep me sane’ like my ‘Don’t ever give up’ poster (the one with the pelican and the frog WHICH I have on MORE than one occasion had the almost uncontrollable urge to set fire to)!!! LOL!!!

Thanks again.

Dale. (forexbrokersonline.net).

Edit:

LOL!!!

After posting the above to you I got to thinking and did a Google search using the keywords “wall street bull statue” and GUESS WHAT: THERE IS NO BEAR statue (I was always under the impression that the bear was never shown or could not so easily be seen but, as it turns out, there is ONLY the bull)!!! There are some very amusing articles found when using those keywords as well!!! The statue itself has quite a bit of history associated with it too.

ONE THING THAT GOT ME THOUGH IS THIS: there are quite a few websites selling ‘exact replicas’ of ‘the bull’ BUT HERE’S THE KICKER: THEY’RE MADE IN CHINA!!! LOL!!! That kills me!!!

Anyway: it would appear that I’ve found the ‘root cause’ of all of our trading problems: and that is that unless we live in New York we cannot walk past ‘the bull’ on our way to work and ‘rub the bulls balls’ (I’m not joking: it’s the reason why its balls are shiny i.e. they get ‘rubbed’ everyday by, among others, stockbrokers on their way to work and it’s detailed on some of the websites that I found)!!! LOL!!! Hmmm. I starting to think about a new ‘indicator’ here!!!

ONE THING IS FOR SURE THOUGH: ‘the bull’ had BETTER start doing his job AND SOON TOO!!!

Second edit:

OK well now I am confused. Further to my ‘research’ above I’ve found on one or two websites that there is (was) INDEED a statue of a bull AND a bear (well there are REFERENCES made to a statue of a bull AND a bear). What’s odd is that in all the photographs ONLY ‘the bull’ appears. Were there TWO DIFFERENT statues at some point??? Apparantely: the statue of a bull AND a bear also has an interesting history.

Anyone in New York that would like to ‘clear this up’ for us is MOST welcome to post (with pictures)!!! LOL!!!

1911

By the way, I too have a “Never Give Up” poster… it is a poster of a mouse flipping off a hawk that is swooping in for the kill… lol.

Well, in my opinion, anyone who feels as fondly about Ole Glory as I do deserves the best I have to offer. But if you will settle for a photo, I will get one posted this weekend. Happy to lend a hand.

Good Pippin,

Chubs

1912

Seems I know something here.

Actually, the original figure (statue you refer to in NY) was a dual statue on the same base. The Bear was stolen in 1936 and it’s where abouts are still a mystery. I suspect Ruskees or maybe Eskimos on sabaticle (forgive my spelling). None the less, I have a great uncle, (discesed in 2004), who was a Wall Street Exec. back in those days. I have seen photos, but have none to offer as they are in the posession of my cousins down in Florida and they refuse to allow me even the opportunity to lay my own eyes on any photos of dear Great Uncle Leon.

None the less, I do have duplicate miniatures and would be happy to post a photo here or send it to you in an email.

Take care, Chubs

1913

A little research seems to indicate that there are TWO different statues being referenced.

The more widely known statue now known is that of the Wall Street Bull. Here’s a section of an article, together with a link to a photo of the statue:

"On the early morning of Dec 16, 1989, New York Stock Exchange awoke to the thought that Santa Claus had arrived early and left his generous gift on the sidewalk. The gift was a 7000 lb mass of bronze sculpted in the form of a flared-nostrils bull ready to charge, the sign most treasured in the world of finance.

Santa Claus was not to be blame – or to be credited – this time. The culprit was a Sicilian American sculptor from Vittoria, Ragusa, but lived in SoHo and was known under the name of Arturo Di Modica. In the dead of the night, with the help of thirty friends and a rental truck, Arturo acted out a mission impossible of driving the truck into the guarded section, lifting the heavy merchandise off the truck, and install it on the sidewalk, all within the eight-minute lapse between the patrol rounds.

The gift, as the sculptor indicated, was the symbol of strength, power, and hope, given to the American people after the memory of Black Monday (Oct 19, 1987, the day Dow Jones index recorded the largest loss in history, comparable to the analogous landslide that led to the Great Depression the same month 48 years earlier.)

The police were ordered to remove the bull for its traffic obstruction, but public protest convinced New York City Department of Parks and Recreation to only move it to its permanent location on Bowling Green Park.

Address: Broadway at Bowling Green
Directions: Take the 4 or 5 to Bowling Green.

Photos of New York City - Images of New York City, United States of America - VirtualTourist.com

Now, in case someone thinks this is a regular-size statue, here’s another link to another photo showing someone standing in front of it:

Photos of New York City - Images of New York City, United States of America - VirtualTourist.com

and another link to a “bulls balls” photo: (Is that you, Dale ??)

Photos of New York City - Images of New York City, United States of America - VirtualTourist.com

I’ve never seen a statue of a Bear in the Wall St area, and it doesn’t appear that there is a public Bear statue. However there is another statue of a Bull and a Bear that for many years was in the Lunch Club of the NY Stock Exchange itself. A few years ago the Lunch Club closed and there was a discussion as to what to do with the statue.

Here’s the text of an article about this from 2006, and then a link to a photo of a bronze replica of this statue:

Friday, December 15, 2006

There’s the rub: Where to put Wall Street statue?
Commentator John Steele-Gordon

One of Wall Street’s famous statues of a bull and bear � said to bring good luck with a special touch � needs a new home. Commentator John Steele Gordon says someone should get on the ball to find a place for it.

Friday, December 15, 2006

Listen to the show
There’s the rub: Where to put Wall Street statue?
Commentator John Steele-Gordon

One of Wall Street’s famous statues of a bull and bear � said to bring good luck with a special touch � needs a new home. Commentator John Steele Gordon says someone should get on the ball to find a place for it.

KAI RYSSDAL: Whether it’s a bull or a bear, Wall Street’s big on symbols and one of its most famous is looking for a new home. It’s a statue of a bull and a bear by a Frenchman named Isadore BonHeur that stood at the Lunch Club at the New York Stock Exchange for 82 years. The Lunch Club folded this year. Traders don’t have time to dilly dally anymore, you know, what with electronic trading and all. But commentator John Steele Gordon says they ought to find a place for the arts.

JOHN STEELE GORDON: In the Frenchman’s great sculpture, the bull is goring the bear while the bear has its fangs sunk deep into the bull’s neck. Who will be the winner of the contest is anyone’s guess.

Indeed, with the bronze animals just as with the optimists and pessimists of the marketplace that they symbolize, the contest never ends. On Wall Street, there is always another day. Even if the day is when floor brokers can have a sit down lunch and maybe play a few hands of gin rummy before returning to the fray are long gone.

Just like the days when 3 million shares was big volume. The brokerage firm of LaBranche and Company wanted to be sure that the statue stayed in the Wall Street area. So to save it from public auction and purchase by Kuwait, perhaps, or ending up in Switzerland like the Americas Cup, they bought the statue.

Like all well-cared-for bronze statues a century old, the bull and bear has a rich patina. Except, that is, for one portion of the bull’s anatomy. Which particular portion needn’t be specified on a family show. This portion has been rubbed to a high polish by generations of superstitious brokers as they left the Lunch Club on their way back to the floor, hoping that what makes a bull a bull would give them luck.

Who knows? Maybe it did. When the statues arrived on Wall Street, the Dow Jones was under 200. Today, it is more than 50 times as high. Now the question for LaBranche and Company is where to put the statue on a long-term loan so that the public can, at long last, admire it. And while admiring it, perhaps, do what generations of brokers have been doing since 1924: rub it for luck. Any takers?

KAI RYSSDAL: Business historian John Steele Gordon’s latest book is called “An Empire of Wealth.”

Here’s a link to a Gallery selling a replica of that Isadore BonHeur statue:

The Paulingston Co.: Bear & Bull by Isidore Jules Bonheur

Stan