What is the most organic/best way to grow as a trader?

Beginner Questions
1

I don’t currently trade, nor have the capital to begin. I’ve traded stocks and options in the past, so I’m familiar with the emotions of making and losing money. I’ve learned a bit, but like everyone else have an endless road ahead that many, and possibly myself included, will not be able to journey successfully.

If there is anything I’ve learned up to this point though, it’s that almost everyone who starts trading goes about it completely wrong. Shocking revelation, I know.

I know when I began, I like many others fell into the trap of having endless indicators, over trading, over analyzing ect.

Why I jumped into the deep end of the pool, instead of easing myself in inch by inch only goes to show how immature I was, and undoubtedly still am.

It seems as traders become more successful they tend to simplify. Would we not all be better served starting out our trading adventure by simply looking at price action and from there sprinkle in the more complicated ideas after we master the basics?

As I type this I’m aware of how obvious it sounds, but in all my time frequenting forums I almost never see people start out this way.

[I]So for those of you who are established already, and those who maybe are currently learning the roughest lessons trading teaches you, if you could start again knowing what you do now, what do you think would be the best (or most efficient) way to grow yourself into a successful trader?[/I]

Hopefully within a few months I will be able to fund an account of roughly 1000. I think to begin with I would be best served not using any indicators and trading longer time frames (4h/D). Basically, I want to focus on price action before adding anything else to my trading (who knows, maybe I wont need to add anything!). Is this a wise way to start, or am I missing out by ignoring aspects of the market I should be including into my trading from the get go?

Obviously everyone is different and will eventually find what they are comfortable with, I think it might be beneficial to have a discussion on the safest and best ways to go about finding those comfort zones. So?..

2

I have found using 2 indicators helps to guide your trade, RSI and BB. But then everyone to their own. See how it goes. Best regards.

3

I think PA is a really good starting point as it has a relatively low level of ambiguity. There are a few PA threads on here. IMO Jon Fox’s threads is the simplest and easiest to get started with as its a few candle set ups and horizontal lines.

http://forums.babypips.com/free-forex-trading-systems/42378-forex-price-action.html

There are other threads that also as dynamic supports and other things but best to keep it simple.

The main thing around being successful is staying in the game. Part of this is self-preservation i.e. all the good things like over trading, taking excessive risk, impatience, etc just take time to get beaten out of you.
The other that is less talked about is having a good reason to do it that has nothing to do with money. It might be an interest in learning, some people stick at it because they are redundant, some people have it as a hobby. This isn’t specifically aimed at you but in general money alone is a terrible long term motivator.

4

Agree with the Pipwhip regarding Price Action. You don’t need to waste time on indicators. Simple PA setups will bring you the success.

So it is very important to understand Price Action from the beginning.

5

Totally Agreed.
Be patient and study the right content.

6

I am new to trading. The market maker brokers take the opposing position in our trades to make more money so I question the value of the trading information they all offer for free. Being that 95% of us fail. It would be against their interest to teach us systems that are successful.

The market is controlled by the banks, 10 major banks account for 70% of the market. 5 of them account for 50%. I suggest you learn their market strategy and trade in the same direction. Then use PA, patterns and candle sticks to enter and exit in context with what the bankers are doing. I like stop run reversals with a confirming candle entry.

As a newbie I am still studying and thinking about what is really going on in the market. What are the bankers doing to create the liquidity they need to fill their daily order flow? Or the order flow they see coming next week?

how is the market manipulating use to trade? Am I swimming with the shark or am I bait? lol

8

Hey MBat, do you have any source material concerning banker strategy and good ways to possibly understand or emulate them?

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

9

I liked this post a lot actually, because I’m not sure I had really dialed into exactly what my long term motivation for trading is if I am to assume it should be something other then simply money.

I’m actually fairly experienced with technical analysis and have been trading off and on since 2009. For the most part I believe the over trading has been beaten out of me due to losing a lot of money on because of it. Excessive risk is still tricky to get over, because unless you start with a large bankroll you will want to make up for it by risking more. Impatience I consider the same as over trading. If I was patient I would know that a better set up will come and wont rush into imperfect trades.

10

Thanks for the good link!

11

Hey Solution1991, Try Live Forex Training Videos | Forex Trading Education | Learn Forex and on youtube look up market maker method training by Martin Cole. Just think twice before spending money on training alot of info out there is free.

The Foreign Exchange Interbank Market

Stop Hunting With The Big Forex Players

Forex Trend Trading - Part 1: Is The Trend Your Friend? - Day Trading Forex Live

Market Makers Method Training Part One - YouTube

This will give you a start. I am new to trading and already I have a passion for this. I like the patterns in trading and the candle stick patterns. The VSA stuff but I will only use any of it in context of what the smart money is doing.

12

This story sums up why money is no longer my main motivation.

The Fisherman and the Businessman - a classic B… - Mind Boggling Stories - Quora

13

It’s great that you have this kind of perspective going in and still have plenty of life ahead of you to keep learning and perfecting (at least I’m assuming so by the username). As you’ve learned first-hand, it’s inevitable suicide when you’re just following some beautifully-presented formula plotted on your screen. At the same time, even professionals have rough days, months, or even years. Again, this is why it’s good to have a more calm perspective about the trading business as a whole.

I do have split feelings about the strategy of simply watching price action, though. On one hand, it’s an absolutely great choice inasmuch that it [U]keeps you from looking at relatively useless crap[/U]. On the other hand, being simply ‘not bad’ isn’t exactly good :stuck_out_tongue:

So, to add to that idea, it will help to keep some things in mind:

—Never, ever forget that price is influenced by market participants (and I avoid the use of the word ‘manipulation’ as that implies some sort of conspiracy-theory-level of continuous, intentional changes in price by this figurative giant entity that’s just out to screw the little guys).

—Never, ever forget that this influence on price is directly related to the size being traded. As such, the larger players are where your focus should be (though there are plenty of different ways to go about playing this)

—Never, ever forget that even those large players will lose money, make mistakes, and so forth. But in all of that mess, price is still being influenced and you can develop methods to exploit that

This is a great question as it ties into the above-mentioned: Watching banks is more effective than trying to out-game some random retail trader strategy since the money of the former FAR exceeds that of the latter.

Most banks will release reports and their analyses, though it’s not always easy to find. Some places have that stuff sometimes, like this one.

Even then, a lot of what you’re reading in stuff like that is delayed and might only provide some insight. I think it’s good to emphasize the thought process that most of these larger names use and a lot of that is fundamental analysis in nature. These guys (banks, hedge funds) are more often the college-educated, traditional investors at heart and much of their trading revolves around that.

What a lot of this boils down to is this: [B]Keeping an eye on relevant news events can seriously help you[/B]. Though I’ve personally had many frustrating experiences where it’s hard to discern what the hell matters from what’s just news fluff (I’m sure most of us have). There are some sites out there that gear towards that like Talking FX, RANSquawk, and Order Flow News.

I recommend you start to develop a thought process and routine that revolves around thinking what the other major players are likely to be thinking and what’s likely to change their mind (and therefore take action based on the shift in decisions, ultimately resulting in orders to the market and a change in price). Keep an eye on the news, what’s being talked about a lot, what banks are talking about in their analyses, and what major news networks seem to focus on. If you’re in the US, stuff like CNN,CNBC,Bloomberg, etc.

THEN, look at pricing and how it’s reacting to things. If you’re looking at only the price changes, you’re already a bit late. If you know what other players are thinking about, concerned about, scared of, excited over, etc., then you can already get in as those things come true, before the major price movements take place.

I think this is the goal we’re all searching for.

14

Happy New Year!

Lots of good points on here … a few of my comments below. Hope it helps.

Your background in options and stocks helps, at least you are familiar with some basics and may take less time to be efficient. For new traders (i.e. those with absolutely no trading experience), I would say at least 5 years of trial, failure, refine, and restart process to get it down and actually become good at it to a point of consistent earnings.

And for those with some background, I would easily say 3 years of consistent practice, learning, failing, and starting out again.

Even when you do start, you will clean your account in a big way at least a few times.

The subtle complexities involved in trading, which are usually behavioral than technical, make it a tough sport to master.

All the best!!

15

The path most traders take is to read a few books, chat with some people, then begin trading live with real money. After a trader blows out his account 7 or 8 times over 10 years he may finally learn what not to do and his odds of success greatly improve. It’s very rare to find a trader who can truly learn the do’s and dont’s of trading by reading instructions or coming up with an algorithmic formula. Even many of the great algo traders had losing years in the beginning (or a string of losing years) before their models finally began to work consistently. And they often had teams of people working on the problem. From the book ‘High-Probability Trading’:

[I]“Overall one should be prepared to spend [U]at least[/U] $50,000 in tuition money (trading losses). With every bad trade, one gains a little knowledge and hopefully does not repeat the same mistake. Trading is without a doubt one of the hardest professions. It requires lots of hands-on experience to be good at it.”[/I]

17

hi,

Perhaps my post on “quest of a newbie” can help? $1000 is more than enough as a start for SignalTrader and , al least for me! it helps me not just making trades (for that I could also stay on zuluTrade) but really learn and, sametime, make pips!

18

Yes, this. It’s SO important to realize that, like any other specialized skill, it will take lots of time and countless mistakes to reach mastery. It’s just that in this endeavor, those mistakes mean direct $ losses which can be emotionally and mentally very very very tough to handle. Having realistic expectations going in helps curb some of that pain, though.

19

Thanks. Agree and I would add that… just because trading losses cannot be avoided… a trader should NEVER just ‘accept losses’ as part of the game. His CORE GOAL IN TRADING should be to reduce, reduce, reduce trading losses to the absolute minimum and do everything possible to completely avoid a loss if he can. I went through stages where I would lose unspeakable amounts of money and say, “Oh well. That’s just part of trading. People who can handle it eventually win.”

I think that was a total misinterpretation by myself concerning the topic of ‘trading losses are part of the game’. My attitude should have been… “Okay. I’m contemplating this trade. What are all the things that could go wrong 1, 2, 3, 4, 5… and what plans do I have in place to avoid risks 1-5, and what plan of ACTION do I have in place to quickly stem the bleeding if I get hit by #4.” I just think traders can get a little ho-hum about losses like they are ‘part of the game’ when really avoiding losses should be a trader’s first and primary goal.

20

Trading is not a game of total loss or total profit . Both are possible here. it is up to a a trader how he reacts to market situation and how deals with difficult situation .Either he put himself in risk or come out of risk successfully . Slow and regular profits are the best way to grow any trader’s account balance.

21

Couldn’t have said it better myself

22

I support staying on zulutrade. If you dont know how to trade, do yourself a big favor and stay in the winning zone - leaving the professionals trade for you :wink: