Why are new traders obsessed with Technical trading?

It will maybe suprise you even more, but there are people like me, who purposly avoid any education or information about forex fundamentals. The reason is that I believe that all these information are created just to mess with people’s minds and confuse them into buying/selling something they don’t want to. Our world is driven by money and money only. All news and media are just slaves of our greed-based society.

I’m definitely not saying that technical trading is a way to go, but in my opinion fundamentals are not a way to go either. :47:

I have a fairly quantitative education about the markets, however the problem is that I do not see how that translate into trades.

Let’s take an example: USDCHF, the Swiss CB mentioned that they will pair the currency with the EUR to threaten the market.

From there a few scenarios:

  • 1 - the market is scared of them and/or the economy gets better, then CHF will be less sought as an alternative to gold
  • 2 - the market does not give a rat, and CHF will resume its uptrend ?

What to do ? It is hard to translate fundamentals into trades IMHO.

If you know a method please educate me (not being sarcastic) as I am always keen to learn !

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I am just learning this lesson. I was basically just tracking candlestick patterns, but I noticed a few anomalies. Lo and behold, when I checked for any news on those dates that I found anomalies there were major news announcements and releases from various sources.

So, yeah, I’ve learned to pay attention to things other than chart patterns, lol.

One can study fundamentals all they want, and Toyota needs to repatriate a few billion dollars into yen, and the fundamentals are blown all to Hades.

Or, Boeing sells 35 airplanes to Germany, and the futures buy to make sure that the money changes hands at the agreed upon exchange rate, smokes the fundamentals.

While I certainly see your point, in my experience, what the market does after fundamental changing news is announced, does not always match the prescribed course of action based on general economic principles.

The underlying theme I see that gets it wrong for most new traders, is thinking the market exists solely for the use of speculation.

That’s not the case.

As for personal experience, I started making a profit only after I shut off all the other sensory overload crap, and just focused on the charts.

Trying to keep up with everything JCT, or the Bernanke said, when coupled with all the other daily news announcements, turns into paralysis by analysis.

It’s easier to look at a fib, find a good R/R setup, and jump in rather than wait on announcement after announcement thinking the next one will make a significant enough difference that an entry will be worthy.

To the OP, it seems you think that it is impossible for a technical trader to make money - simply NOT TRUE.

The fundamentals help give me feel for what’s driving prices. The charts will show me what’s happening and what happened before but if I shut out the fundamentals the why things are happening can be hard to figure out.

Retail traders often aren’t interested in the why part from what I can see. Prop traders, or at least the ones that I know, tend to combine technical analysis with at least some fundamental analysis so that they’re focused on the important drivers out there. They don’t paralyze themselves with analysis but they don’t ignore it completely either. They’ve typically been in the market for a longer time than most people in these forums though so one reason I suspect that you don’t see that many traders focusing on FA here is that it’s much more straightforward to start learning TA. Also TA is essential for trading - it does work. But if you want to get more flavour for what’s going on you need to look at least a bit to some FA as well in my opinion. We’re competing in a market where most non-retail participants have a good feel for what’s driving things so, for me, it’s worthwhile spending some time to follow the educational path they followed.

I agree with you PipBandit, except for 1 thing -

Also TA is essential for trading
, it isn’t, simple as - it isn’t.

Hey mate, good post I must say.
I’m a beginner myself and 65% of my trades are driven by technical analysis, of course one eye is always on Bloomberg TV and other web sources… We’ll see… experience is yet to come :wink:
Cheers lads, wish you good trades :wink:

As always, threads start with one topic and end up far far away.

I still do ask myself why the Yen is where it is. Or will the weakening come as corporate Japans earnings slump in the coming year or two since the chart always represents the true and current scenario??

If it does, then it all ties in so well with the historic low etc etc.

I am torn apart when people talk about fundamentals.
PipBandit and Purple are both right … it is confusing to try to make too many scenarios.

But IMHO, it can be useful to know what is the latest thing people focus on, as it can lead to incredibly strong moves. Even if you do not trade the fundamentals at least it can help you to know when not to trade ?

I guess… But you will still get confused with thoughts like “EURO is strong this year”… You may not even realize it, but it will be in the back of your head and it may influence your decision about taking longs/shorts…

The argument between fundamentalists and those who use Technical Analysis to trade is as old as nearly trading itself. The question really becomes do you need to know who/what moves the market and why to be profitable. The short answer is, no.

It is very true that the “big players” move the market, but the large players are not individuals with extraordinarily deep pockets (there can only be so many Bill Gates’ in the world ;)). The players that move the market in a significant way are banks. Don’t get me wrong, news reports, macro/micro events, and other things can ignite a spark, but that is after the major banks have made a move and then every other trader simply piles onboard.

With TA, you can successfully predict market movement even when major news events are not occurring. One of the other great things about TA is that is helps to eliminate the emotion that can also be tied to trading. Trading on the pure price action rather than on events allows you to build systems and set rules for yourself in trading, whereas, many traders who attempt to trade using fundamentals often get involved in a “I [I]feel[/I] it’s going to move this way” argument (which, we all can agree, is the most dangerous place to be in when trading).

Please don’t take this the wrong way, there are many traders out there who are successful using Fundamentals and many who are also successful using TA. The wonderful thing about the market is that it is big enough to support both viewpoints and award the skilled trader with the spoils of victory.

I say, if you’re a skilled trader with one or the other, stick with what works for you personally. :slight_smile:

I’m quite new to this but Technical analysis has the novelty or being quick to pick up, put a line on the chart and it is support or resistance, being able to us TA properly requires time.
Fundamental analysis really is about the studying bit, i’ve just done some of this in my degree (macro-economics) and it can help if you understand why governments are changing interest rates or doing QE, it’s about trying to build the picture in your head.
I suppose at the end of the day it’s all personal preference.

I’m a little late to this thread, but my view is that the reason many newer traders focus on Technical Analysis is twofold: 1) One can make money from it in isolation from other factors, including fundamental analysis and 2) It is more accessible initially than fundamentals, which appears a much larger area with many more nuances.

An example from my own Forex early days: as regular readers might know (lol) I started out by going on a Forex training course. On the second day of this course, the lecturer talked about Fib, and walked us through how to draw Fibs on our charts. This was only a short segment, inteded to give us the outline concept of Fib, which we could then either go away and refine with our coach, or forget all about. Being the curious sort, and a complete novice at the time, I stuck my hand up and asked something along the lines of ‘how does Fib work/why does Fib work/what is the science behind it?’ (At the time, I didn’t realize quite what a long debate might result from attempt at an answer lol). The lecturer’s response was, to me, relevant to this thread (yes, there is a point to this ramble…!), and was along the lines of: ‘I could spend a couple of hours now discussing Fib with you, and by all means take that up with your coach, but you don’t need to know that to make money, and you are here to learn to make money. For now, accept that it works and learn to use it. If, separately, you want to go away and research the background to Fib then by all means do, but in today’s classroom context that would be a waste of our time, as we don’t need to understand the ‘why’ to make a lot of money. So let’s concentrate on the things you do need to understand.’

I am paraphrasing his response, but the content is accurate and sums up my view on TA versus fundamentals etc. As others have said, sometimes fundamental factors are priced into the chart already, other times they are not, sometimes Price reacts in accordance with an announcement/development, other times it does the opposite of what we might expect. It is a pretty subtle beast, and not a consistent one.

As professional traders, my view is that this should be a probability game, we should be looking for consistent Price movement that suits our consistent, mechanical setups. Whether that is PurplePatchForex looking to compare four bars to give him a trade setup, or me looking for a trending Pair and then applying my ema’s/Fib etc. to it, or whether it is a third trader looking for an ma cross, or whatever it is - we are all looking at the chart looking for a repeat of a technical scenario that made us money last time we traded it. We are doing this in order that we can trade it again, and we will make money from it again. And we want to be doing the same thing an hour/day/whatever later, because we want to make money again. That is all it is. It is not complicated. It is hard, very hard, but it is not difficult.

So I don’t trade NFP or Bank Holidays, and I won’t take certain sorts of setup ten minutes ahead of a major news announcement, but I can make good, consistent money without a deep understanding of the fundamental factors outlined in Reggie GMan’s original post that started this thread. I do research and follow some of that stuff, but that is because it interests me - I don’t need it to make money.

I recognize that there are traders who trade the fundamentals, and do so successfully, but for me that is a much more unpredictable way to make money from trading.

Anyway, apologies for the extreme length of this post, I hope that some found it of interest!

ST

As a newbie trader myself, I think I can shed a lot of light on this.

There’s something very, very attractive about the idea of taking something close to random (even if it’s weighted and possibly predictable) and running a bunch of mathematical formulas to make it understandable, accessible and predictable. A quirk of human nature, possibly. Seems so complicated in the beginning, with a simple, human readable result. The perceived elegance is quite impressive.

That said, there’s also the fact that for those of us who haven’t traded or been in the industry at all, that if we say “I want to learn to trade!” Technicals are much easier to find simple, beginner information on, and learning TA feels MUCH more akin to learning a new skill, whereas Fundamental analysis is more akin to “pay a lot more attention learn a lot more and be smarter.”

Kinda like how somebody who hasn’t really worked out much in the past is much more likely to be drawn to stuff like fad diets, P90X, (or 8 minute abs,) specific books, programs, whatever. And truth be told, some of these people drawn to the specifics if they apply themselves dilligently to these programs can show great results. Lots of these programs work, and are based on fundamentally sound principles. It can be a great entry to the world of fitness. Most will fail simply because they don’t care that much and don’t stick to it, and they never get past the “do what the p90x guy tells me” part, to the part where they realize why they’re doing it and why it works. I myself do not stay in impeccable shape despite working out regularly and eating fairly healthily, because I have a soft spot for beer and cheap whiskey. But at least I know exactly what I’m doing wrong (or, exactly what I’m doing right, depending on your point of view)

This post probably sounds like I’m bashing technical analysis. I’m not; it seems plenty of successful traders use it in a very in depth manner. (I say seems, because I’m a newbie myself and truth be told I don’t know crap)

Quite simply, though this may not have been the case up until relatively recently, with the proliferation of computerized trading platforms, the internet, etc. Technical Analysis is just way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way accessible these days, where a few clicks can take care of math that used to take very smart people days. That’s pretty awesome. Personally it makes me feel like some sort of robotic superhero.

But the MAIN point is thus. There’s two general options we have. They usually go like this:

A) “Look at this USD/CHF chart, over the past two days there’s support and resistance here, a general uptrend, the RSI shows that it’s oversold so I’ll put in a buy order down here and play the bounce off support”

or

B)“Well, look at this USD/CHF chart; it looks like it’s been moving upwards recently. I guess it’s time to give myself a thorough education in the past few decades of economic policies of both the United States and Switzerland and see how these different aspects of policy affected the exchange rates. I hope I remember where my library card is. Or where the library even is. Didn’t they move it recently? Like a few years ago. I swear they moved it… yeah, they built a new library, right by that mexican place I used to go to with Jenny. Fernando’s? Man I kinda miss Jenny, she had such huge- Rodrigo’s?? What was it called… not gonzales was it? No, I’m thinking of that cartoon mouse, oh boy he was fast, but, thinking back he was kind of a racist character, it’s funny that back then they didn’t care about being a little racist. Strange how times have cha— OH Pedro’s! That’s what it’s called! Man I could go for a Pedro’s taco right now!”

My personal answer because technical trade is more interesting and flexible, interesting cause there are various indicator i can use one of them and flexible than fundamental , fundamental we must monitor when news released but with technically i can adjust my times to trade