Please give a welcome to newbie member @SuePearl
@SuePearl Good luck on your trading journey and feel free to share some of it with the rest of us!
Please give a welcome to newbie member @SuePearl
@SuePearl Good luck on your trading journey and feel free to share some of it with the rest of us!
Old thread but with a few women traders, some may be gone and some may still be around (like @Sweet_Pip):
Interesting write up. An experiment carried out on 20 females and 20 males.
Whilst the result is interesting, there is no explanation of the background of the participants, nor selection procedure used to choose the individuals. (I am speaking of the “Piecework v Tournament” arithmetic task here )
It would be easy to deliberately “skew” results to show any result one wished by using a careful selection process with this aim in view. And could also be achieved accidentally, by a less than rigorous selection process.
Whether a sample of 40 people could be held as representative of the whole population of the world, as is postulated, is also a matter which could be subject to question.
INteresting selection of statistics there @PipMeHappy.
The title is “DO? women make better traders than men” - yet the address line is " /women-make-better-traders-men/ " - possible revealing a bias in the intention of the blog, which is then belied by the adjustment of the title headline ?
Then there is this ; - [quote] There’s a growing body of evidence that proves that women not only excel in day trading, traditionally regarded as a man’s job, but also routinely outperform their male counterparts. [/quote]
A bald statement made before any such evidence was even presented - thereby swaying the judgement of any reader of the subsequent “evidence”, before the evidence is even presented.
ie again the revelation that the “investigator” may be biased since the statistics “prove” nothing - they are simply statistics which indicate that of 35,000 households men traded 45% more frequently, without even considering whether there may be underlying reasons such as “men were more interested” or "men were doing more research and testing their beliefs more frequently ? "
and this ;
a practice that lowered their net returns by 2.65% per year, compared to 1.72% per year by women, nearly a whole percentage point worse. [/quote]
Hard as I look at that particular wording, I cannot make sense of it - unless it refers to costs due to commisisons and spreads ? in which case both groups were making phenomenal “returns” and we would need to know the gross returns made by each group, for that statement to have any meaning at all.
The Blog then goes on to say ;
[quote] Trading website FinTrader recently announced that the percentage of women engaged in trading and spread betting has been on the rise. The firm says that 25% of its clients are now women, up from virtually zero, two decades ago. And, judging from the company’s data, women are, on average, better traders than men.
FinTrader has posited five reasons why women make better traders than men:[/quote]
Now if we look at that other article you posted where of 20 males and 20 females, the females were seemingly significantly less likely to back their own ability by taking on the competitive route, perhaps the lack of females could mean that less than a half of the females who were available to be “traders” decided to do so and that the ones who did, were more confident of their own judgement and ability than those who did not. (perhaps then they “self selected” so that only the brightest section decided to “compete” ?
The junior traders, both men and women, lost money in their first year of trading, which is pretty standard for first-year investment bankers. But, women traders lost significantly less money than their male counterparts.
Men vs. Women First-Year Trading Returns
women1Source: eFinancialCareers [/quote]
So the women on average lost $50,000 in their first year - but did only 2/3 of the number of trades that men did. Men lost around $68,000 in their first year, meaning that on average their loss per trade was smaller than the women.
The blog does demonstrate that women are generally more compliant than men, and more frightened to break “rules”, which is postulated as a good thing. Whereas it could also be presented as “men are more able to think critically and to make their own decisions” - Something which may well stand them in far better stead in later years of trading - for when they potentially become …
Far from avoiding risks, older traders tend to take just as many risks as younger folks. The difference is that they take the right risks, are highly organized and are very results-oriented. The result is that the over-55 set enjoys 40% better returns than their younger counterparts.[/quote]
Great analysis, Falstaff.
However, I disagree with one basic point: that all studies or survey should be neutral.
There would be a huge loss in funded research if all proponents of a theory or bias remained unfunded on the basis of a bias: not all studies can or should be comparative in nature, and some will start with a theory and prove it through a data set.
As you know,curve-fitting is a headache for trading backtests, and indeed this argument can be true for research. Survey questions setting in qualitative research has been thoroughly discussed academically - e.g. close vs. open questions - in its impact on the respondents’ answers.
However I think that there is something to be said generally about our gender’s lesser ability to step back when we are wrong compared to women, because male ego is all about proving that one is right… As indeed you and I, in our (however civilised) arguments on this very thread, have amply demonstrated.
Not realy a true “Analysis” mate - just picking a few of the most obvious holes in what is clearly a most biased blog with an obvious agenda posing as a neutral “question” !
Is that the official view of “Academia” nowadays ? How things have changed from my “Student days” ! and how sad for those pupils who trust “Surveys” and “studies” as the best factual explorations of a topic available
In passing, I don’t think you’ll find that I used the “S…” word at all in my post - that in my opinion is the worst and most judgemental word in any language and automatically introduces a bias whenever it is introduced into a conversation.
And some might say that the refusal of FUNDING on that basis, could be a good thing ! I would certainly be one of them !
Do you think so mate ? Your other “personality” - the “Mr Hyde” type who occasionally uses your login seems far more dogmatic and determined to “prove itself right” than either of us - and my suspicion is that it belongs to a “Her” !
I think we agree to disagree on positive bias in research, however we all have a ‘Mr(s) Hyde’ side to us, only some people may be better at keeping it in check and I think we agree on that.
As for c/s/w-ould, I think it is more semantics than substance, but readers of the thread can make their own mind up about it.
Have a great Sunday and thank you for posting, as ever.
I don’t think so, in trading gender doesn’t matter. It is all about interest. If anyone interested then she/he can start trading. Having more female in trading sector won’t affect the market.
Thanks & regards
Here is an article I just came across in Finance Magnates, which offers a point of view that is rather different from the basic tenor of this thread.
This article probably won’t sit well with certain participants here.
Just because I sit on one side of the debate it does not.mean that I cannot tolerate other points of view. The main body of the article deals with facts but the introduction is a personal, subjective world view on gender issues.
Personal opinions are not facts, but we can use facts to bring weight to our opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but in this debate one personal opinion is as equally valid as another personal opinion.
My world view is that male and female brains are not different and that we owe a lot of what we do to social norms. I cannot impose this world view on those who decidedly oppose it: just like with people who do not see climate change as an issue, those who do not see discrimination against women in the workplace as an issue (men and women) will be unlikely to change their stance even if they drowned in facts proving the case. We are all entitled to an opinion, but what I enjoy is to debate with others with a different opinion and try to find a middle ground: this is what true dialogue is.
For this reason I wish to thank you, Clint, for joining the debate using a respectful approach and sharing a topical article.
As promised, here is one of my new interviews, for which I would like to thank Carolyn for her
time and generosity.
Carolyn Boroden needs no introduction, but in case you are new to her work here is the link
to the post on this thread where I featured her in July: Why we need more (good) female traders.
Now, without further ado: here is my interview with Carolyn Boroden.
--------------------FOLLOWS: interview text -----------------------------------------------------
Ten questions to trader-analyst Carolyn Boroden
by Francesco Sani OCTOBER 2018
1. In your previous interviews you have spent a good deal of time explaining how your approach to the market works, therefore I will not ask you to repeat it here: rather, could you perhaps say why Robert Miner’s approach to trading clicked with you and brought you into the Fibonacci levels theory? What was it about his seminars that pushed you into the Fibonacci direction?
I specifically remember going to Bob’s seminar in Chicago. When he talked about Fibonacci Timing where you actually use the time axis of the market to call changes in trend it felt like the lightbulb went on in my head. I found it so fascinating that I actually started doing the work by hand on paper charts with a calculator. I had never seen anyone else use the time axis before. It was a game changer.
2.There is a lot misinformation about Fibonacci, with a lot of services showing only trades that
worked but not the ones that failed; as a result, many newbie traders are suspicious about the whole Fibonacci theory. What is the statistical backbone that could provide trust in engaging with Fibonacci trading in the first place?
I do show failed trades also even on twitter. I think the best thing to do is test it for yourself. My members are also happy to tell others how they are using my work for profits. Not everyone who uses my work will be making money though. If you don’t follow the rules and are not disciplined, no matter what you use it will fail.
3. You mentioned that you mostly use Fibonacci extensions and projections based on existing trends, but also that you use confluence of different Fibonacci levels within a trend. Do currency markets, which are notoriously trend-less most of the time, respond well to Fibonacci theory as efficiently as in the case of indices or commodities?
I have done some analysis in currencies and find that retracements and symmetry can work very well in those also. I just haven’t done a lot of that work lately. I think they trend nicely in my past experience.
4.How did you deal with being one of few women working in the CME in the late 1970s? Did you ever get the ‘double-check’ look when you told people you worked there?
Actually, I get a more interesting look when I tell them I ran away from home and quit high school, but now I have my own company.
5.There have been many legal cases of bad behaviour in banks, with women ostracised or objectified and humiliated out of jobs for no other reason than their sex. Zooming out of trading and looking more widely at the whole finance industry, what do you think could be done that goes beyond something like women mentoring programmes in banks and could more radically shift the gender balance in financial careers?
Don’t really have an answer for the above.
6.I am curious to hear your experience of the CME at a time where pit-trading was still on the go, especially having subsequently made the transition to electronic trading yourself: how did you find trading without the outcry element for gaining a feel for market sentiment? Speaking of market sentiment: do you use volume metrics (e.g. volume bars, Volume At Price, etc.) in trading? In other words, do you read ‘the tape’ to add strength to technical analysis?
The only thing that I felt was an advantage on the trading floor is that I could typically feel the energy in the room getting tense before a big move. I can’t say I profited from it though, because my job at that time was to execute trades mostly for institutional clients. I wasn’t doing anything for myself at that time.
7. Under-capitalisation is often talked about by traders as a reason for failure: how much capital did you have to raise to begin trading by yourself and how long did it take you to raise it?
The first time I did some trades I think I only had 2K in my account. I did great until I did NOT use a stop on one of the trades and I lost it all. Using a stop would have saved me! Right now I think it’s adequate to use a 30K account for options trading on think or swim. Some will start with less cash but if you do that, I would trade some very cheap options spreads to get your feet wet. You really should start with more because you have to allow for your rookie mistakes that we all make!
8. Do you use any automation in your trading, and how much decision-making do you delegate to it?
I don’t really automate anything. I do have some trade triggers that get painted on to think or swim charts that are essentially buy or sell signals though.
9.Besides your 2008 book, is there any other reliable resource (including statistical analysis) that newbies looking into Fibonacci methods can access and study away from live charts?
I highly recommend Robert Miner’s book, Dynamic Trading. After all I would not be in business if it wasn’t for him!
10. Do you plan to retire at all or is trading something that you hope to continue with as long as possible?
I’m not sure I will ever give up looking at the markets. This work still fascinates me. I do plan on taking more vacations NOW, but I may end up running a service til I’m 70! We will see! I am one of the lucky ones who actually LOVES what they do for a living!! I would like to start doing more teaching though in the near future. This way the technique doesn’t go away when I do!!
--------------END of INTERVIEW text -----------------------InterviewQuestionsForCarolynBorodenWITHanswers.doc (30 KB)
You may remember that I posted this earlier on this thread (post no. 786):
Well, @Ananais just reminded me that in 2010 she herself had interviewed Lydia, here:
Further to the magnificant interview with Linda Bradford Raschke
Here is a viewpoint from another liberated woman - That “good morning” interview is well worth the watching btw !
All this proves is that she has no clue what she is talking about.
OMG. I admire the effort you put into this. Really good job on this interview @PipMeHappy!
Thank you, @ria_rose Anyone can do this, all it takes is finding someone willing to answer the questions
At the London Investor Show today, Friday 19th October: