Going offshore to escape the CFTC

As for me, I’m a bit “gun shy” these days about experimenting with new brokers not on Clint’s A- list. Signed up with a couple of brokers over the past year. Ended up having problems with both. But my problems really stemmed from the increasingly limited funding options available to US residents versus poor broker quality, so I’ll mention them here as perhaps deserving further research:

[B]Lite Forex[/B]
Signed up with these guys as a “partner” (USA is in the menu). Was assigned partner accounts which I ended up not using. But also able to open regular trading accounts. Initially funded with OKPAY, but later received a notice from OKPAY that they would no longer service US residents. Lite Forex let me withdraw all my funds no problem. At the time, the only other viable non-bank wire funding option I could use was (don’t laugh) Bitcoin. I reloaded my account using Bitcoin, which worked surprisingly well, as it converted to dollars. But then a couple of months later Lite Forex stopped accepting Bitcoin. Recently they added Western Union. Haven’t tried that funding method yet.

[B]Grand Capital[/B] (https://grandbroker.com/)
At the time, Grand Capital was located in Seychelles. I was excited about finding them because they seemed to offer every derivative under the sun – forex, stocks, commodities. Kind of reminded me of the old “Broco Trader”. Loaded my account using OKPAY. So, same problem when OKPAY cut me off. Grand Capital also accepts Western Union. But has since moved HQ to St Petersburg, Russia (they have servers in Germany). I have not traded with them recently because, frankly, I’m not sure what may happen if I try to send or accept Western Union funds from Russia. Is there some obscure funding law or regulation I might be violating? No idea. For now I will just wait and see, hoping for a thaw in international tensions.

Bad news about FXTradeweb. I tried to open up a live account with them yesterday (I’m a US Citizen) and noticed the US country option missing from their list. I then sent their customer service department an inquiry. Apparently they have suspended taking on any additional US clients until they complete the licensing/registration requirements for additional jurisdiction approval. ETA on “possibly” accepting us again: 3-6 months.


My understanding is that Sensus Capital cheerfully accepts U.S. persons.
I think they have MetaTrader and other such platforms, and are a stable broker.
Hope someone can clarify this, as I don’t personally have an account.
https://www.sensus-capital.com/en/
HyperScalper

Within about the last 2 weeks, HyperScalper, I contacted Sensus Capital and they very promptly replied saying that they definitely accept Americans. He said that they do have some US traders and would like to have some more. I am growing more and more interested in Sensus since they seem to be the second best broker available offering the Dow Jones stock index concerning minimum margin and the bid ask spread. So far, though, Tradersway “beats the pants off” all of its competitors with respect to the DJ index, called the Us30. I am still slightly uneasy about Sensus, however, since they have been in business less than 2.5 years I think, but I like the fact that they also are located in Germany, which, to my knowledge, traditionally has had less of a Mafia presence. I think the Germans are slightly more principled or honest than many other nationalities, speculating. Their address is a street address, too, which is good.

Thanks again, Clint, for your dedication and professionalism in starting and maintaining this forum. Without your help it probably would have taken me and others a long time to discover these brokers.

Yes, actually my European (German) business partner runs Bluevestor.com and we run an automated strategy to manage a PAMM account with Sensus through a Dukascopy to MetaTrader trade copying setup.

If we didn’t have Dukascopy and LMAX accounts, I’d certainly be going with Sensus and perhaps doing some FIX coding. IT SUCKS THAT U.S. PERSONS have been so locked out of the rest of the world, due to U.S. over-regulation.

HyperScalper

Thanks, [I]Jean.[/I] I will reference your post #2352 in the [B]Traders Way[/B] listing.

Hello, [I]compounder[/I]

Thanks for the info on [B]Vector Securities.[/B] I’ll try to make contact with them via chat and/or email, later this week, or next.

I think this broker is worth looking into, [I][U]with caution.[/U][/I]

Back in March 2013, someone started a thread on Vector Securities in the [I]Forex Broker[/I] forum, and the thread was immediately replied to by a whole parade of first-time posters, all praising this broker as the greatest thing since Russian black bread. And those first-time posters have never been heard from again, here on [I]Babypips.[/I] Looked to me like an advertising blitz from employees of Vector Securities.

Hello, [I]SLS[/I]

I think you’re giving “Clint’s A-List” a bit too much credit. Being in Group 1 of our List really means that a broker (1) is an offshore broker, and (2) will accept U.S. clients. Beyond that, we don’t rate our listed brokers, or recommend them. The additional vetting that we do — such as checking into their regulatory status or listing some of their metrics — serve only as a starting point for interested traders to begin their own due diligence.

A listed broker can raise all sorts of “red flags” with their policies and practices, and garner all sorts of complaints from members of this forum, and still remain on our List. As I replied to another poster recently, our List contains some of the best offshore brokers in the world; but, it also contains some real rascals.

I’m not at all familiar with their “partner” program. Can you tell us more about that?

It’s interesting that [B]Lite Forex[/B] will open a regular trading account with you, given the fact that there is no way to complete their online account-opening process using “United States” as country of residence. This merits further investigation.

We currently list Lite Forex in our Group 2 — brokers who will not do business with us.

And we show Lite Forex as domiciled in The Marshall Islands (which I believe is nothing more than a registration address, selected to put them out of the reach of any regulators). Does this match what you have found in your due diligence?

I know nothing about this broker, but will have a look.

As for your question about [I]Western Union,[/I] I should think that a quick phone call to them would answer that.

Hello, [I]Mopar[/I]

Sorry to hear your bad news.

Some changes have been occuring at [B]FXTradeweb[/B] — they recently moved their operation (or maybe just their official registration) across the border from Finland to Estonia. I don’t know the reason for that move, and don’t have an opinion on what it might mean regarding the soundness of this broker. Just something to watch.

If your information checks out, we’ll have to move FXTradeweb from Group 1 to Group 2, unless and until they get things sorted out.

[I]HyperScalper,[/I]

Your information agrees with our information. We have [B]Sensus Capital[/B] listed in Group 1 of our List (see post #1 in this thread).

[I]compounder,[/I]

We show [B]Sensus Capita[/B]l as domiciled in Malta, because their website lists an address in Malta as their “head office”, and they are regulated by the authorities in Malta. They also list a “branch office” in Germany, which I believe is their “continental European” sales office.

Have you discovered different information?

[B]Profiforex Update 12/23/2014[/B] Updated and Resolved 01/01/15 see post #2378
Ok so I have opened an account, funded and have been trading quite successfully since November 20th. My only complaint thus far has been the time to withdraw. I got an email saying my Withdrawal request is successfully processed on Tuesday the 16th in the afternoon EST. So I expected best case scenario money would arrive Friday morning maybe Monday. Monday comes and still nothing so I respond to the finance support email which did take about 6 hours to respond back. (Not too bad I guess) saying basically what I already knew, the money should be there already and that they did send it by debit card refund etc.

So I waited until Today (Tuesday) morning EST to check again and send another email. I am still not expecting a response today due to the holiday, their hours say they will probably not be there (finance hours that is) But at any rate I can see this stretching over many more days due to the holiday.

So the long and the short is I have successfully processed 3 withdrawals with 1 more pending. All 3 have been debited properly from my trading account but none of the 3 have arrived. Not quite worried yet just wondering if my profits over the last month turn out to be too good to be true. (Best trading month that I have ever had after nearly 2 years of forex)

So be on alert just in case with these guys. I will post more when I get a response back.

[B]Traders Way[/B]
I have opened a new account with them (MT4 ECN). Total process of registration, verifying ID, address and now ready to trade took the support team only about 3 hours all the way from scratch. Also, I was able to confirm PayPal is indeed an option as reported by their finance team in a response to my email (response took just over two hours so great!)

I am excited to fund this account today with PayPal and will be taking advantage of their year-end no deposit fees promotion.

Stay tuned for more.

[B]FXtradeweb[/B]
Unfortunately I can confirm that they are no longer accepting U.S. clients I received an email response stating “Hi Matt, Thank you for contacting FXtradeweb, Currently we are not accepting any new US clients.” It is a shame because even last week others reported they were able to open accounts there but now it appears to be restricted from US citizens.

Matt, thanks for those updates.

I will kick [B]FXtradeweb[/B] to the curb (i.e., to Group 2 in our List) later tonight.

And I will link to your post #2360 in the [B]Profiforex[/B] and [B]Traders Way[/B] listings.

Hello Clint,
Just wanted to say your forum has been indispensable to me. I have never found such a current list of brokers vetted to accept US residents elsewhere on the Web. Thank you. I do understand though it is meant to be a starting point for further research to choose a broker that works best for our particular situation.

The Lite Forex “partner” program is a multi-tiered affiliate program ranging from allowing webmasters to post Lite Forex links on their sites for referral credits to becoming a full fledged Introducing Broker. I became interested in Lite Forex because I like to trade currency baskets, and they were the only broker I found to offer currency basket derivatives for the major currencies. At the time I had this idea to host a web blog dedicated to currency basket trading, and maybe include Lite Forex as an advertisement. To my surprise, “USA” was included in the menu to sign up for a partner account. Their partner program required no commitment, and I could also trade for my own account, so decided to go for it.

Since then Lite Forex has stopped offering their currency baskets for trading which was disappointing. But overall I think Lite Forex is a decent broker. They have ECN accounts, and also offer no commission “pip rebate” accounts that with the rebate are 1 pip for the major dollar spreads and a few major crosses.

Lite Forex used to be domiciled in Seychelles. You are correct they recently moved incorporation to Marshall Islands.

Quick post regarding [B]Lite Forex[/B]:

Chat Log

[B]Topic[/B]: Do you accept US clients now?

[I]A representative will be connected, please be patient. [/I]

[I]Andrew Gulyaev enters the chatroom.[/I]

[B]Andrew Gulyaev 1:11:36 AM[/B]
Welcome to client service department. My name is Andrew Gulyaev. Please allow me a moment to review your request.

We do not accept US cizines according to US legislation.

Thanks, Tom, for the clarification. I may have inadvertently found a “hole” in their account sign up process that they need to plug.

When I began researching brokers not on Clint’s Group 1 list, I naively assumed that if “USA” was in the accounts drop down menu, the broker must accept US residents. But that isn’t always the case. Maybe there are a few sitting on the edge of whether to accept US residents and have a sort of “don’t ask don’t tell policy”. But the worst will let you sign up and fund an account before telling you they don’t accept US residents. Markets.com and ACM Gold did this to me. I eventually got my funds back so no harm done. Both of them are already on Clint’s Group 2 list.

I guess the moral to this story is to always ask the broker before signing up.

Getting back to Sensus Capital Markets, Clint, I should have said that the broker seems to be based in Germany because of the following statements on its website:

“Sensus Capital Markets is a fully regulated European online-broker both for private and institutional traders focused on FX and CFD trading. … The chosen calibration and set-up of the trading platform ensure best trading conditions. A German BaFin regulated asset management company is the owner of Sensus Capital Markets and carries out its own FX and futures business through Sensus Capital Markets. The parent company has an extremely high interest in maintenance and development of an excellent trading infrastructure.”

Also, a recent email to me from the broker also indicates where Sensus really is, which is in Germany:

From: Nasar Ghulam
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Personal contact - Sensus Capital Markets
Date: Dec 9, 2014 2:54 AM
Hello XXXXXXX,

Thank you for choosing Sensus Capital Markets as your broker.

I would like to introduce myself as Nasar Ghulam. I will be your personal contact here at Sensus Capital Markets in Germany.

Link = CFD Symbol https://www.sensus-capital.com/en/cfd-trading/cfd-guide/

You can trade Dow Jones …we called US30…please try with a demo…tick value is 0,1 usd…min volume is 1

If you have more questions please not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

Nasar Ghulam
Senior Institutional Sales

Sensus Capital Markets Ltd.

Representative Office Germany
Borselstrasse 20
22765 Hamburg /Germany
Phone: +49 (0)40 605 90 10 34
Fax: +49 (0)40 605 90 10 26
Web: www.sensus-capital.com

Head Office:
Block 10, Flat 1,
Triq Ghar il- Lembi, Sliema, SLM 1562, Malta
P: +356 277 811 20
F: +356 277 811 21

Apparently their “official” address is in Malta, though.

compounder,

Thanks for the additional information on [B]Sensus Capital Markets.[/B] It sounds like you’ve gotten connected with a really good broker. Please keep us up to date regarding your experience with them.

In your post, you emphasized that Sensus is a “fully regulated European online broker”. That doesn’t mean that they are domiciled in Germany, however. Malta is as much a part of the EU as Germany is; and brokers in Malta come under the EU regulatory framework, as well as the regulatory framework of their own country.

But, in any case, the German connection is a plus, not a minus.

When you get a chance, ask the Sensus rep where their servers are located — that’s where your trades will actually materialize. But, whether their servers are in Malta or in Germany should not make any difference in your trading. The distance from Austin Texas to Malta is essentially identical to the distance from Austin to Hamburg Germany, so latency (if that’s even an issue for you) should be the same with either location.

If you read the Terms and Conditions of your account with Sensus, you can probably [I]infer[/I] the actual operational location of this broker, by determining where disputes (if they occur, between you and the broker) would be adjudicated or arbitrated.

I believe we have Sensus correctly listed as domiciled in Malta.

Thanks, SLS.

The Offshore Broker List, which I always refer to as [I][B]our[/B][/I] List, has been a group endeavor, with many contributors — yourself included.

So, your kind words are not just for me, but are shared by many people on this thread.

And we appreciate the applause!

On a thread in the Newbie Island forum, the broker [B]CLM - Core Liquidity Markets (Australia)[/B] was mentioned, so I checked them out. They have a nice-looking website, but unfortunately — like all Australian brokers — they will not accept U.S. clients.

It’s a shame to have to expand our list of brokers who will not do business with us (Group 2 in our List), but the CFTC has made us [I]personae non gratae[/I] around the world. Thanks for nothing, CFTC.

FUCFTC

[B]Profiforex Update 12/26/2014[/B] Updated and Resolved 01/01/2015 Please see post #2378

It has now been a full 10 days from when the debit card withdrawal was processed by their “finance department”, money taken from my trading account commission charged and so on. I got off the phone with my bank and there is no refund from them or deposit. I have not received an email response since 22-Dec. I have lodged a complaint with their “quality management department” and their “management team”

So long story short this has been an aggravating process and is still not resolved.

[B]Be cautious with this broker.[/B]

That’s just too bad. I’m just confused why a simple issue cannot be resolved right away.

I asked this broker why their private section was not encrypted. This is a simple task for web designer. Certificates cost about $5. They said they were still working on it. Strange as this process usually requires about an hour and few days for certificate delivered by email. I do not understand anyone using Profiforex when all their data is send in plain text through the Internet for everyone to see. It is like leaving kilograms of cash on the table at your cybercafe and expecting no incidents

My suspicion is they control a hacked machine and cannot add encryption due to some firewall there

Dreher, if your communication with your bank was by their automated telephone voice system, sometimes small deposits by someone other than you are not included in the automated response, but are included in your bank’s online transaction records. So if you bank online with them be sure to check what they have online, too.

Within the past week I thought I had the same kind of withdrawal failure with Tradersway. I made the mistake of relying only on my bank’s automated telephone voice system, and it failed to inform me of an actual, correct deposit by Tradersway, which I discovered when I checked my transaction history online. Once in a while I try to make periodic test withdrawals. I did that successfully about a year or two ago with Tradersway, also, I think.

If Profiforex truly will not give you your money back, then you need to tell the whole world you smell an elephant sized rat, speaking figuratively, among the brokers on List One.

Nothing has changed and not that I had expected anything to I just wanted to clear up my issue.

I talked on the phone with a live banker who confirmed nothing had changed and I checked both online banking and mobile banking there is no money there from Profiforex.

I received a response back asking for banking statements spanning a specific set of dates to prove my side which I have provided so I will see on Monday if this produces any results.