Hmmm, have you ever thought through what would actually happen if a system generating a daily 100% profit was made public?
If [I]everybody[/I] used it, things would revert to ‘normal’, i.e. it would be worthless, wouldn’t it?
O.
I see this this thread makes quick progress. In a neighbor thread they have a lame poll with 8 percent per day there. Not worth the hassle to enter an order price compared to the Leandar Generator, imho. 
Agreed (Oliver1968 i.e. Buckscoder ‘got in’ before me).
Regarding leandar though: over the years I’ve sort of ‘changed my stance’. I always used to take a really dogmatic approach when it came to ANYTHING in life (trading included). Alright: I still do believe that there are certain ‘golden rules’ that are never to be broken (like risk management) but to stop someone, or be negative to, a new trader, trying new things, with a ‘new set of eyes’, I think is counterproductive and unfair. Alright: most will lose everything but you never know if JUST ONE who WOULD have or COULD have come up with something spectacular but people like me may have ‘killed it’ before they even had a chance. When I was young (well YOUNGER!!! LOL!!!) I used to have business ideas that sort of ‘just came to me’. But in those days: nobody would take a teenager seriously. Eventually: you (I) just stopped trying or bothering because I was ‘shot down in flames’. But at least two of the ideas that I came up with YEARS and YEARS ago have been ‘brought to market’ as multi-million ZAR businesses. So I now try to encourage. Not encourage to LOSE money but not to stifle ‘out of the box’ thinking. Put it this way: in THIS business, if all brokers ‘played fair’, some of these ideas that SEEM so ridiculuous may NOT be so ridiculous after all. I suppose it comes down to what you can control and what you have no control over.
And, well, I guess, that’s why I’ve sort of ‘opened my mind’ to Wilder’s Adam Theory. Three or four years ago, had I found it then, I would have simply disregarded it as ‘mumbo jumbo’. But the man DID fork out over a million dollars just for the IDEA (and I believe to have it copyrighted or patented or something like that). This was not a stupid mad. So who am I to say that something is impossible or ‘mumbo jumbo’ at LEAST until I’ve TRIED it.
So I’ll ‘root’ for a ‘leandar’ until every possibility has been exhausted or until THEY are ready to admit defeat.
Regards,
Dale.
Yeah, my point.
You just never know, no matter how improbable it looks.
History is so full of improbable or ‘impossible’ things … that is what makes it so fascinating.
And this thread, no matter whether it will eventually produce something worthwhile or not, keeps us busy and entertained.
So, it’s a good thread, hehe.
O.
By the way, anybody took a look at the two MetaTrader-Hype threads running at the moment,
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/42018-videos-about-metatrader-manager-administrator-settings-plugins.html
and
http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/42065-metatrader-exposed-series-videos-stop-hunting-slippage-etc.html
?
O.
Yep. I have to admit that even although it got of to a bit of a ‘rocky start’ it’s turned into something ‘pleasant’ if nothing else.
Regards,
Dale.
Well, that with the possibility is right in general I guess. Almost everything is possible. They even can produce black holes these days on earth. Just, for a limited time. Nanoseconds I guess. Well, fortunately in this case! LOL!
I thought about it a while ago. The concept of the “quick richer” are mainly the same. They try to compress time and try to do it with less trades. Say you would take the trading business as game, then you can for sure think of doubling your account like in a bet and if you have 10 successful bets you are done with increasing it with a factor of ~ 1000.
Or to make it more visible: Just one bet with a high leverage would do it with just the one bet. Put in 1k, play with a 10 pip sl and 100 lots and just hope it will go like expected. Something like that.
Problem with all these ideas is imho not that they wouldn’t work in some cases. In fact the success rate would probably rise, because you had roughly 50% winners and losers and not the ratio of 95%:5% what goes around the forums.
Problem with it is the method itself. Think of the question how to feed the poor with fish. Either to give them fish or to teach them catching fish. My point is, the quick rich scheme itself is a poor method to [U]keep[/U] and [U]grow[/U] money. Think of the many lottery millionaires who lost their millions quick. People who can’t manage to grow their money “in time” with a method which is proper will probably lose it fast afterwards, however fast they made it.
Because to make a coincidently right bet is nothing to last. It comes and it goes. It’s gambling. People who fall for it will not stop after it. They do it again and poof all is gone like it came. If it would be just one bet and ppl would stop after it okay. But they can’t imho. And, that’s the reason why you can read a lot about lucky winners, at casinos, stock markets, everywhere and the same time read that those poor folks couldn’t [U]keep[/U] the money. Which is essential to not only grab a fish, but to know how to catch fish regularly. To not only have to eat one year, but have to eat for a lifetime.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Teach a man to create an artificial shortage of fish and he will eat steak.
And then there is this one: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
O.
Well the car salesman and gas pump attended was the best I recon.
Aaah yes, the guy who became a gazzilionaire overnight.
He was’nt born in America. Are we talking about the same one?
A kind of greasy looking dude, longish hair, walking around his mansion in white pajamas, living the Hollywood lifestyle,
driving fast cars, smashing those cars in C grade trashy movies that he made himself.
Now that’s entertainment hehe
Good morning.
Buckscoder:
In fact the success rate would probably rise, because you had roughly 50% winners and losers and not the ratio of 95%:5% what goes around the forums.
That’s quite ironic if you REALLY think about it!!! LOL!!! Here we all (well me anyway) are working away ‘methodically’ managing risk and following ‘the golden rules’ and there’s only a 5% chance of ‘making it’ in this business whereas a gambler has better ‘odds’!!! LOL!!! Like I said: ironic is it not.
But nothing is impossible. Probability is another thing altogether. This thread (or this part of it) has, since yesterday, had me thinking of a case here some (many) years ago where some ‘intrepid’ programmer at one of our banks realised that there was always a ‘remainder’ on FOREX transactions and exchanges. In other words: it worked somewhere along the lines that FOREX (then anyway) was, as far the clients were concerned, converted with two decimal places but here was always a remainder. All he did was accumulate of of the remainders, after the second decimal place, and have it sent to an account. If I remember correctly it eventually added up to about R12 000 000 ZAR (which in those days was a LOT of money) or something like that before he was caught out. And the only reason he wac caught out is because HIS account was at the same bank and nobody, for a long time, could quite figure out how come there was an account growing to this size without there being a corresponding debit somewhere within the same bank. Alright: we have better technology now than back then (although I’m unsure as to whether that would make any difference really anyway). Had he had those remainders electronically sent to another account at another bank (those days the Internet didn’t exist and there was no such thing as Internet Banking or EFTs as we know them today) I don’t think anybody would have found out. That’s the type of ‘out of the box’ thinking I was talking about. It was a long time ago but if I remember he wasn’t prosecuted either because REALLY nobody had lost money or was ‘out of pocket’. Something like that anyway.
Oliver1968:
Those videos. I’ve watched them. I personally have never seen that ‘side’ (the broker side) of MetaTrader so I cannot comment. And for me to even THINK about getting involved in THAT thread (given my wonderful ‘title’) would be like me walking HEADLONG into a brick wall without a helmet and no armour!!! LOL!!! I have to believe that such tools exist simply because they’re in the videos. Whether or not that was their INTENDED PURPOSE though (to ‘fleece’ traders) is another matter. In other words: I can see (just by looking at those videos) why those tools COULD be needed by a broker e.g. to adjust price bars or remove bad ticks or make corrections to a client’s position or order price because of, again as an example, a bad tick or data corruption. The one that ‘delays’ order execution: of you’re running a dealing desk and things start getting too ‘hectic’ I can understand why a broker may feel the need to ‘slow down’ the incoming orders i.e. basically just to be able to ‘cope’ with a sudden unexpected influx of orders. I’m not making excuses. I’m just saying that those tools may not have been specifically designed to ‘fleece’ traders but COULD be abused for this very purpose depending on the integrity of the broker. I mean: I know with Delta Trading (as with ANY trading platform) it is possible to go in and change price bars and adjust position prices and orders etc. but it’s sometimes necessary and not for any clandestine reasons. Many times over the years I’ve asked for a chart to be corrected because I can clearly see that there was a bad tick and it’s ‘fuked’ with my trading system(s) or indicators. Or I’ve been stopped out erroneously because of a bad tick when the price feed has just been opened and they’ve had to re-instate the position after correcting the chart. So I mean: those types of tools are not just limited to MetaTrader I’m sure. ONE thing that the member has NOT made TOO clear: is WHY NOW??? That question has not been answered to my satisfaction and appears to be have been ‘skirted around’ somewhat. Come to think of it: maybe I SHOULD post the above on that thread. Just to provide ‘another perspective’. Then again: do I REALLY want to get involved with 'sht’ like that.
Oh and by the way: I’ll be the man drinking beer (well: rum anyway) in the boat and get somebody ELSE to catch the fish!!! LOL!!!
Nikitafx and piptronix:
Yeh: isn’t that just a ‘travesty’??? Somebody like that making money like that at the expense of other people and doing that type of thing with that money. It reminds me of one of my favourite (and often used) phrases: ‘it is like feeding caviar to pigs’!!! LOL!!! And I’ll tell you THIS much: no matter HOW much money I had??? If my girlfriend ‘whacked’ my brand new Ferrari Enzo into a brick wall: she be ‘out of there’ before even having the time to collect her things!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Hey Dale,
regarding the MetaTrader issue: I just wonder how serious to take these allegations.
Thread opener claims to have worked for several FX brokers … implying he was either dismissed repeatedly for non-performance or he repeatedly resigned because his saintly nature wouldn’t allow him to participate in fleecing retail traders.
And obviously, an issue like the one brought forward there would not apply to the MT platform only; manipulations like these could be performed on any platform (web based or installed on trader’s PC/mobile device).
It makes me wonder whether partaking in online Forex trading would be advisable in general.
On the other hand I find it kind of hard to believe that [B]every[/B] broker uses practices like these.
A large, well established broker would be much better off doing straight business for 50 years than fleecing for 10 years.
Since I am a newbie at online trading (though not at trading in general), I would love to hear yours / Buckscoder’s / Master Tang’s / Any-other-Expert-long-in-the-Online-Trading-Business’s opinion on this.
Cheers,
O.
Hello.
Geez!!! Where have you been (and everybody else for that matter)??? MAN I’ve had a lonely day!!! LOL!!!
Well I’ve posted on that thread (against my better judgement mind you) as you may have seen. I just think the guy is creating ‘panic stations’ and I’m not being able to see the reasoning behind it. And agreed: it’s just a piece of software as is any other trading platform. As a matter of fact (this just ocurred to me now): YOU could ON YOUR OWN download historical data, pull it into a spreadsheet, and modify the OHLC prices yourself for any bar you wish and then import the data into MetaTrader and your ‘revised’ data would appear ‘as if by magic’ on the screen after ‘refreshing’ the chart.
‘Partaking’ in online FOREX trading??? You’re speaking to the wrong person here!!! LOL!!! It’s just ONE of the many reasons why I ‘bang on’ about NOT trading FOREX online. You’ve got NO ‘yardstick’. Just take Bank of America for example: if I got stopped out because the price ‘spiked’ by, say, $0.50 then I have NOT hundreds but THOUSANDS of points of reference to tell my broker that ‘hey: price never went anywhere NEAR there so fix my trade’. With FOREX??? Just you TRY to have that argument with a broker ESPECIALLY if there are variable spreads involved!!! LOL!!! See who ‘wins’. But as I noted on that thread: ALL of these things are BROKER dependant. And YOU are one of the ‘enlightened few’ it would seem (by noting that it’s better ‘doing straight business for 50 years than fleecing for 10 years’). People seem to think that clients just ‘fall off trees’. While it may APPEAR to be the case: let me tell you that THANKS to the brokers that work on the ‘10 years’ ‘model’ it’s ‘f*ck’ difficult to solicit clients. It’s FAR easier to NOT ‘mess’ with clients, let them grow their accounts so that they’re eventually trading bigger accounts, and generally just keep them happy, than it is to ‘churn’ new clients on a monthly basis. This post on a thread on MY forums may interest you:
Technical Trading Systems at TechTraderCentral - What do you need???
Anyway: I’m pleased that SOMEBODY is around!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Hey guys and gals!
Well, I am a newbie still in fx trading. That’s how I see myself. After 10 years, hmm, maybe I can say I am no fresh newbie anymore, lol. Maybe an ole new bee then, lol.
I have prices from min. 2 brokers to check plus then you can always look at the futures prices and while I believe brokers, particular mm’s, trick you out of a trade sometimes, that is maybe in the range of til 1 pips or in exceeding cases the spread will rise til 15 pips (eurusd, seen with my very own eyes on Alpari in the past). I don’t know if they then tune the price afterwards, tho.
My general recommendation is to go with a ecn broker and avoid market makers at all cost! Those who come with ndd, that’s already a none information, because today they can do the tricky stuff with a plugin and need no dealing desk. Ecn brokers in general have better order execution, tighter spreads, tho with commission, and you can see the order depth and so on. Some market makers also advertise with fixed spreads, but that is also a none information, because instead of rising the spread they can just manipulate the price up and down a bit and that’s like a wider spread. So, watch out! Them are all no charity organizations. When particular with the market makers there is a conflict of interest and this alone let me go with ecn brokers. I have experience regarding this. The mt4 is an excellent platform if the broker is fair.
Ahhhh… He’s awake now TOO!!!
Oh and THANK YOU TOO for making my ‘job’ ‘just that LITTLE BIT MORE difficult’ (‘Market Maker’)!!! LOL!!!
Actually: it’s not a problem come to think of it. Deltastock is the ‘Counterparty’ to all trades not the ‘Market Maker’. ‘Market Maker’ is such a ‘dirty’ phrase don’t you think??? ROFLMAO!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Yeah, that’s pretty obvious.
On the other hand: I’ve just recently been told by MT that even ECN brokers do not actually forward your positions but handle them ‘in-house’ (at least ‘bucket them up’ until a substantial position size has been realized), unless you trade something like 2-3 lots minimum. Some other sources speak of a 10-lot-minimum for a position to actually be forwarded to the ‘real market’.
Since I haven’t traded for more than ten years and hence need to relearn a lot of stuff and ‘get the feeling again’, I have no intention of trading anything bigger than 1-5 minilots for quite some time … meaning I’ll be ‘handled in-house’, no matter what type of broker I’ll choose.
I have decided on an ECN/STP broker nonetheless, but … will it really make a difference?
- See above.
- Maybe I don’t understand the MM system fully, but … wouldn’t an MM match off existing trades of his customers against each other first, before actually ‘taking the opposite side’? And even if he does take the opposite site, wouldn’t he simply place a corresponding order on the ‘real market’ to hedge his customer’s position, thus making sure that he’d never lose and just earns on the spread instead?
That’s how I would handle it, if I was in that business; it would enable me to offer fair and transparent deals to my customers while ‘keeping me out of danger’ at the same time … and I’d still profit from my spread, which after all is what a broker’s business is all about.
Yes, that was the impression I got from having a closer look at MT and its capabilities, too. The hard part is finding a fair broker. Having no insight into a broker’s inner workings it is very hard to judge whether an explanation offered for a specific situation (freeze, spike etc) is the truth or just an excuse.
lol, I want my Mommy.
Cheers,
O.
Dale, I’m awake since centuries, just in different bodies, lol.
Oliver, it CAN make a difference. Now I’m not saying all mm’s are cra… b food and all ecn’s are the cream. What makes it even more difficult is that some brokers give the choice to go with any account type. It really just boils down to the house where you go with. Do your due diligence, how it’s said. How does a broker present itself at the web? Do they have proper contacts? Are they regulated? Have they “casino tactics” like promos without end? What’s the min. deposit? What does fpa’s or other review sites users say?
I concur that selecting the right broker is one if not the most important decisions in this business. Here one can compare the price feeds with a regulated exchange btw.:
So if there is a suspicious trade you can compare the prices. If the bid or ask would differ with more than a few pips I would for sure open a claim with the broker or the regulation site.
The hard part is finding a fair broker.
You can’t be serious!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Nah, I’m just kidding … finding a broker is easy: just choose the one with the most colorful website and the biggest Deposit Bonus. If that broker will then promise you a 100% equity gain per month and has some photos of himself on an 80-foot yacht, you’ll know you’ve found your new home.
Cheers,
O.
Well, while it is very important indeed to choose the right broker, I wouldn’t belive all horror stories, lol. Sometimes you can read from a trader that a broker stopped out all of his 100 trades or so and that rises the question why he didn’t complain after the first trade. Some also seem to believe brokers ARE charity organizations. If one is stopped out because of good reason they feel the broker hunted particular this one trade, lol.
Anyways, as I said. If you go with an ecn that’s imho the best decision you can make. They might still hedge your small trades, but they would be stupid to do it with the big lot sizes, because hedging means risk for them. They can get their profit via commison risk free. So why should they go into extra risk? That makes no sense. Some may play unfair, but I’d say as long as there are fair ecn brokers they will end up losing their customers anyway.
If the house plays fair, they will also unload those hedge orders as quick as possible. Again to reduce their risk exposure.