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Don’t use very high leverage above 100:1 unless it’s an A+ setup
[B]You flunked here. This is what you keep getting warned about.[/B]
[I][/I]You are correct this wasn’t the time to be going all in [I][/I] -
Don’t treat trading as gambling
[B]That’s what you are doing with your high risk and no stops.[/B]
[I][/I]Not strictly true i use high risk because i believe the odds are in my favour.I use mental stops because i like to get out when the market tells me to for eg: market closed below what i deemed to be a 5min support level [I][/I] -
Don’t trade during low volatile market hours unless a good trade setup has formed
[B]No comment. That should be a personal matter.[/B] -
Don’t trade more than 1 currency pair at the same time
[B]Read number comment in number 3. [/B] -
Don’t enter on spikes
[B]Why not? I got a very profitable trade when I traded a spike last week on cable.[/B]
[I][/I] You are right depends on the situation [I][/I] -
Don’t short at support or go long at resistance areas unless market gives confirmation.
[B]Now we’re making sense.[/B] -
Don’t REVENGE trade
[B]Two in a row.[/B] -
Don’t listen to people on forums saying you can’t achieve this or that. You are capable of doing anything you put your mind to.
[B]Part 1–you are very good at. Part 2–Why don’t you set your mind to leaping over your house and let me know how you come out?[/B]
[I][/I]That"s not something I’m interested in setting my mind to. Not sure why traders always have suicide on their minds ?[I][/I] -
Don’t OVERTRADE
[B]Who are you to tell us that?[/B]
[I][/I] I believe this is my trading plan [I][/I] -
Wait for the Market to confirm the price move before i enter
[B]Alright![/B] -
When in doubt stay out!
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When in doubt get out!
[B]The last 2 points are probably the stronger of indications of why you are a decent trader.[/B]
[I][/I]Yes they are i have no problems getting out of a trade if it doesn’t do what i expect it to[I][/I] -
When you Exit a winning trade forget about the money you made and concentrate on the market because the chances are that pair will start heading in the opposite direction so look for Reversal entry
[B]Why look for a reversal entry? If it is obviated, then okay. But if not, then look elsewhere. [/B]
[I][/I]Yeah i should clarify this one, the reason why you exit a trade is because you think the market has ran out of steam to continue on. So wait patiently till it trades within a range for a few days and when the time is right enter in the other direction. For example my long eur/aud and usd/chf trades both reversed direction from my exit area. I have a tendency to not reverse a pair that was recently good to me [I][/I] -
Never Average down
[B]Whoa! That makes sense the way you play.[/B]
[I][/I]Heh you are right not sure why i put this one in since this has never been my problem. And as you mentioned with my position sizes i couldn’t average down even if i wanted to :)[I][/I] -
Be patient and wait for the market to show some signs of life before i enter a reversal
[B]Yeah, this makes sense. [/B] -
Stop thinking that every trade i enter is gonna give me 100+ pips, and look for the next support or resistance level for exit
[B]I am sure most of your trades don’t. With the way you risk, you could not handle staying in that long[/B] -
It’s not the quantity of trades that matter but the quality
[B]Good point.[/B] -
Don’t trade announcements
[B]That’s your opinion. But then with your position size, you could not handle any spike against you. [/B]
[I][/I]Correct again[I][/I]
As Master Tang has rightfully pointed out every time you enter a trade you are taking a gamble. Here is wikipedias definition of gambling:
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as “the stakes”) on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
Gambling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I just risk more than the standard 1-5% that all the trading related books tell you to
Also if you learn to trade based on pure price action you will sometimes see setups that you know 100% without a shadow of a doubt that price is going to shoot in one direction or the other and that is when you are truly in the zone!.
I agree 100% with everything you wrote most traders trading small accounts will be on their death beds before they build up a decent amount risking 1-2% on each trade. Market exists to make money so why not EXTRACT the most you can when the oppurtunities arise ?
And yeah that gold trade was terrible the whole time i was thinking to myself why am i going short when it hadn’t shown any signs of weakness ?
Maybe all the negativity from this thread went to my head and i convinced myself i couldn’t achieve my goal so i should just blow my account like everyone here wants me to since they don’t have the balls to trade my style!
I will be reloading my account next week with another 2 hundo so stay tuned for round 2 because Extracts going to comeback with a Vengeance 
As far as im aware trading is not gambling, hence why it is regulated by the FSA and not the gambling authority. It becomes very had to place fixed odds onto trading, although some brokers have already tried this, and failed in the main.
The reason it’s not watched over by gambling authorities is because there is more to the market than speculation.
For instance, if you were a US airline company, and you decided to purchase 5 airbus airplanes, you would need to purchase euros to pay for the planes. Granted as the time to pay got closer you would have an eye on the exchange rate to maximize your value, but written into the contract would also be the value of the transaction dollar to euro to insure both sides got a fair exchange.
Contrast that to the retail forex market where none of us have the intent of taking delivery on the currencies we trade.
If I buy euros, I am looking for an increase in value from the time I buy, until I decide to sell. That is speculative in nature. Since there is a chance it can drop as well as rise, that gives it a risk element. Therefore, it’s a game of probabilities. Hence, a gamble, but not necessarily “gaming”.
Very easy, for a gambler it’s gambling and for a trader it’s trading. A trader knows why it’s not gambling, a gambler obviously doesn’t know it. So, it’s completely okay if a gambler says it’s gambling and a trader says it’s trading.
I have systems and there is definitely no sure outcome in any one trade. Any one trade can go wrong, but I have scientific proof of statistics of my systems with drawdown, profit etc., anything what is measurable in an objective way of statistics research. That’s why I do not care about any outcome of any one trade. If it’s a loss or a winner is unimportant. Risk is controlled, I can not lose more than what I want to lose and max risk is definitely less than my account, lol. 
Anyways, good luck for all gamblers! I guess you’ll need it.
First, I did not keep him off from trading and didn’t ask for. I just explained my point of view. If he is an adult or not is not the question. I don’t know and I do not care.
We just have the facts now, that:
- He blew his account in a week or so and lost 3/4 of his account.
- He invests more than those initial $ 200 now.
- He is farther away from his goal now than at the beginning before his first trade.
Second, orders are placed by my bots with stops and targets before them get filled. So, a connection issue is a non issue. The worst what could happen is that the order won’t get filled and the risk is zero. That’s by the way the standard way how bots trade. So, you have obviously no clue how bots work.
Regarding being perfect: I never said that. However there is a difference between a healthy trading style and disaster gambling.
Regarding suicide I wrote already everything what is important. Just read again.
hello everone!!! this is my first time posting on a thread. but i am by no means a newbie. interesting conversation you guys had.
This a personal pet peeve to me. Only losers call trading gambling. Gamblers lose more than they win. There is a casino that brags about 98.2% winnings. That means for the total of $100 that is gambled in their casino, $98.20 is won, which means it nets a loss of $1.80 for every $100.
Transfer that same logic to trading. The ones that call it gambling are all losers. I have never met anyone that wins consistently calling this industry gambling.
Trading requires work and the fortitude to develop a winning methodology that includes proepr money management. That is something the starter of this thread knows nothing about, and that is why he had 2 bills extracted (Get it?) from his back pockets and why his broker is waiting for 2 more bills. His broker becomes the extractor, because Extract has the gambling mindset, so loads of money gets extracted from a gambler.
BTW, you got it! Big difference being regualted by the FSA than a gmabling authority.
Dude, you still don’t get it.
I’ll speak for myself, but I think others will agree. We are not rooting against you, nor “wanting” you to fail. You’ve been warned, but newbies parading in here as silent viewers of this thread need to be warned like the pros who have already done so.
There is no “nerve” (I paraphrased your term.) in trading your way. You already proved it is the losers way. My account right now has a losing trade up (Not too often that happens.). Regardless of what happens, it will still be laive to see another day.
As far as the “deathbed” syndrome goes, you’ll have to argue with me as to how I am making a substantial living.
That’s one of the secrets. You don’t have to be perfect, just right most of the time.
The amazing thing is that a short ways down the road, there will be similar posts of how the account blew out. After all, with that kind of risk you have to be almost perfect every trade.
All right what you wrote (also the other things). Well, with that gambling mind what the op has, he will probably throw more money in. He has now $ 400 put in if I guess right, some weeks went by and he is thus farther away from his goal than at day one. And with that overleverage he will lose more. Everybody who knows how to make money in this business knows that it is not about being right all the time. It’s about keeping the account alive while managing risk and trading an edge over the long haul.
This is so far off base it’s incredible.
Why then does the Wall Street Journal more than occasionally allude to “bets”?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704340504575447861514614690.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208982797036342.html
Yahoo! Groups
Need more?
I happen to live in a gambling town, and know people that are professional gamblers, and are NOT losers. Riding around in a Bentley GT Coupe that is paid for from sports bets is not what I call a loser.
And BTW, it’s 98.8% or so PAYBACK.
The casino advertises that for every $100 spent, they pay out $98 in winnings.
YOU figure out how a casino can not only survive, but THRIVE on only keeping less that 2% of their income.
A hint. It has something to do with math tricks…
A casino only needs to make 2%. $100 of bets and $98 winnings means the casino makes $2 on every $100 that is bet at the casino. Now that you mentioned the mathematics, it’s not hard to figure out. I have no idea how many millions are bet in a casino in one day, but 2% on just $1 million is $20,000. That is my point. Casinos make it fine on people losing $2 for every $100 they bet. There is no math tricks there. Just math facts!!!
The fact you live in a gambling town has nothing to do with the fact trading is not gambling. If you want to gamble, like the starter of this thread, then you go ahead. I’d rather trade. That’s how I make a good living.
How do you know the drivers of the Bentleys are not workers in the casinos? How do you know that they are not just there, like many others, on vacation. Do you really think they earned their Bentleys from gambling?
If someone is the extreme exception to the rule, and they some how, make a living on gambling only, then they are have to be an extreme excetpion to the rule. The casinos are only built and stay in business by people losing, not winning. Even the example I gave, every $100 gambled, $2 are lost. That’s the rule! The owvers of the casinos drive the Bentleys. That is the rule.
As far as Wall Street alluding to “bets”, it is a fact .There are people like the starter of this thread, and I guess You, that depend on betting to make a trade. I think it is better to use your own head and trading skills than depnding on rhetoric. I still do not know of a trader that actually makes a living at this that considers himself a gambler. I was asked to speak at a luncheon for a broker in Chicago. I went on a tour of the facility, and met many successful traders. They, like me, viewed themselves as professional traders and not gamblers. Why? Because we are not lucky. We are very good at what we do.
I think we’re seeing eye-to-eye Buckscoder, as is also evidenced by my total agreement in may of your posts.
I hate sounding so dogmatic, as I did in the previous post. But, there are some very fundamental attributes that have to be mastered in order to be a trader. I paid the price through hard work, working for free on demo accounts, then someone comes along and wants to throw all that hard work to the wind and call it gambling.
Those fundamental attributes I mentioned are taking the time and arduous work to establish a trading methodlogy that is personally suited, establish money managment skills, staying consistent with those rules, then after you go live, maintining the psychological edge to be consistent and not let greed and fear get the best of you.
I meet a lot of people through my blog. I no of no one that is successful in their trading that has tried to skip any of those steps.
A casino needs to make a LOT more than 2% to stay open.
A million into a casino in one day would be a good day. But only netting 20K for that day wouldn’t even keep the lights on. YES, there are math tricks. The same thing happens in forex.
It’s a game.
The fact that I live in a gambling town has given me a bit of insight as to how to use probabilities in my favor.
Probabilities are no guarantees, probabilities carry risks. Risks in ANY thesaurus can be described as a gamble. Call it anything else you want. Why don’t we just refer to it as knitting if you have a problem with “gambling”.
Because the OWNER of that Bentley happens to be a personal acquaintance. Yes, he earned it from gambling. In fact, I can take you to another person’s house whom I have only met once, and he’s got a couple Ferraris to go with his Mercedes AMG McClaren. Know what he does?
He’s a GAMBLER. Yup, pro poker player.
Actually, owners of casinos that I know personally make an okay living, but it’s stressful.
Trying to keep a hotel full, and people on the gaming floor is challenging in these times.
The poker player, and Bentley owner, both live better.
You think I don’t use my head for trading? How presumptuous of you. However, I could at this point make money tossing a coin for an entry, buy or sell, and still come out okay.
And how do you know those traders were successful? Did they tell you that?
You enjoy your “knitting”. I, unlike you, have NO issues about what I am doing here. I choose to enter trades based on the most PROBABLE result. That makes it a “chance” outcome. Most likely in my favor, but with risk, none the less. Otherwise known as a GAMBLE.
There are no guarantees in trading. If you have a quantifiable trading record, and you know your percentage of wins to losses, you can maximize your profit. The fact that you have a PERCENTAGE of wins to losses should tell you that there is an element of chance, otherwise a skilled player would win ALL of them. That would no longer be gambling.
As for the starter of this thread, he knows what he’s risking. He obviously has a much higher tolerance for said risk than me. That’s his prerogative.
Stop preaching to him. Save it for someone who really needs that kind of pep talk. They show up here every day.
Yea 4xpc, I guess we can understand both what it means.
MT, there are no math tricks. Math is one of the most logically “language” in the world to project facts. There is not even much left for irregularities like divide by zero.
Then, you obviously get confused by business logics. Let me explain: A casino’s revenue is something different than their income. If it goes to businesses, if it’s a casino or a broker, they can live well on even 2% income out of their revenues. The revenue has just to be big enough.
Regarding Bentleys and that sort of arguing, that’s just giving me a big LOL! Sure gamblers can make money in the short run. However, in the long run all gamblers are doomed to lose. I guess that is what 4xpc is pointing to. Even you afaik are not for long in the business of fx, right? What makes you think after a few years, it will all be like now in ten years? May I suggest to you a book? It’s an easy read and gives you some insights of the difference between gamblers and investors/traders. It even states that it can be called gambling, because the outcome of any single investment is unknown. However, it also states, that if you “play” or you are gambling in the sense of the word, then it’s just a matter of time until you lose against those who trade or invest with an edge. There are a lot of examples in this book that most gamblers who lived on big foot died in a poor vicinity.
There is not just any guarantee in anything in the world, btw. That’s not just with trading. But you wouldn’t call driving a car gambling, wouldn’t you? Maybe I would, if a driver drives under influence of drugs …
You can trade/invest, if you have an edge. If you don’t have an edge, you are gambling. Very easy. Plus as I stated above, a casino owner is definitely no gambler. He has an edge, invests his money and at least hopefully grows a profitable business. A business owner, however small that business is, is no gambler. And a skilled trader is somebody like a small business owner. He drives his business out of an edge in trading/investments. Even that gives him no warranty for anything, as in every business.
The op is very obviously a gambler. Every word what he writes here is a big evidence for that. So, I am really a big surprised, that you invest hope in that kamikaze gambling. He will with a 99.999% probability lose all what he is throwing in his gambling over the long haul. That’s definitely not trading or serious investment and nothing than this thread makes it more obvious, what the reasons are for the difference of gambling and trading/investmens.
MT, I used a poor choice of words there. I don’t know you, so it would be presumptuous if I said you don’t use your head in trading. What I meant by “I think it is better to use your own head and trading skills than depending on rhetoric”, is that just because the Wall Street Journal says so, why just read and beleive it. Just because the WSJ says so it makes it so? I work with some college kids who attend a nearby college. One of the things I work with them on is to get them away from doing something just because the text book says so. Do it because you know with conviction that it is the right thing.
I hope I cleared that up that it was not meant as a directive concerning your trading.
Concerning you as a trader (This is my opinion.), I have my doubts you are doing well consistently because you are (By your own admission.) a gambler. By that comment, I shared my opinion, but not trying to be disrespectful. I just don’t know of anyone that views trading as gambling of whom is good at it.
The fact that I knowthe people at the brokerage more than just as a casual acquaintance tells me I know they are good traders. Also, the fact that is their living tells me they are good. Their track record tells me something.
As an additional fact, if they did tell me that would not make them good traders. I’m only 75 posts into this forum. I’ve already said I’m a good trader. That didn’t make me one. I expect you to take that comment with a grain of salt. Followers of my blog are different. They have known me for 4 years, and I have the track record there to prove it.
I post 85% winning trades. In order to address your comment about percentage of chance, and then likening me to a gambler, those are my chances of winning on every trade I post. I’m still not gambling. I make a living in a risky world because I have mastered the art of reading charts and properly interpreting them for a position on the market I am considering. I’m not making a living by gambling. It is not a gamble when I enter a position. The winning trades have a wonderful positive effect on my account. The losing trades are just part of the price of operating my business.
You and I both know the examples of your friends you gave are exceptions to the rule. I knew of a guy in Las Vegas who went from welfare to wealthy in a short period of time because he knew how to bet on football games. Nevertheless, casinos exist because of people losing. Of every penny ever gambled in a casino, the odds are and have to be that it will come up on the short end. Otherwise, there would be no casinos, no bright lights, and no luxurious hotel accomodations that are very inexpensive.
Your town of Reno I have been to more times than I can count from my days of sales in Sacramento. I would take my kids downtown and under that sign, “Biggest little city in the world”, and show them all the things I already talked about. In the morning we would go to Fitzgerald’s for ham, eggs, and hash browns for 99 cents. Later, we would go to Sands (If I remember that one right.) for steak and lobster for only $6.95. Then we would check into our wonderful hotel room that I paid $20 for (Hotel gave me spiffs in hopes I would stick around to gamble.). I told them all this was possible because of losers. People walking into casinos and losing. It worked! None of my kids, to this day, go to casinos for gambling.
The opposite is true in trading. We are in a world that has about a 90% failure rate. (This is part of the reason there are forums like this one.) It does not have to be that way. All can win if they want to. That is not the case for too many reason to be discussed right now. Truth is in the casino world, it is impossible for 100% winners to exist for the reasons mentioned. In the trading world, it is possible for 100% to be winners. Thus, the difference between gambling and trading.
As far as preaching to Extract is concerned, I don’t have the ability to preach. I know from personal experience, and like others, I can warn him, and I’ve done that. Aftrer that, all alusions are meant to warn newbies that read this thread that the path Extract is taking is a path to failure.
“You think I don’t use my head for trading? How presumptuous of you. However, I could at this point make money tossing a coin for an entry, buy or sell, and still come out okay.
And how do you know those traders were successful? Did they tell you that?”
YES there are math tricks. A casino CAN’T survive off of 2% income from their gaming And those math tricks serve not only to dupe the masses into thinking they will get paid back most of what they spent, but to lessen taxes.
There are many professional gamblers that live decent lives sports betting, or poker playing. MOST gamblers lose, as do MOST forex participants.
Yup, risk with just about everything under the sun, including sunbathing.
This quote just kills me though:
It’s an easy read and gives you some insights of the difference between gamblers and investors/traders. It even states that it can be called gambling, because the outcome of any single investment is unknown.
If you subscribe to that thought, why the hell are we debating this? That’s EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING.
See, here’s where you guys lose the point. Even if you HAVE an edge you are gambling. You HAVE to have an edge to be a SUCCESSFUL gambler. Every trade, you open, or every bet the pro takes needs to be calculated. That’s point. The OP is taking a calculated risk. He just does it with much higher stakes than your 5%, or my .05%.
And just as the casino owner has the house edge, the pro gambler has his. A small business owner deals with goods, or services. For a given price, a customer can buy a widget, get a meal, get their carpet cleaned, repair their car, etc. The business owner’s risk is, will there be a demand for the goods or services offered? And if there IS a demand, will the price be competitive enough to get jobs, but high enough, to secure a profit? There is risk there. Too high, no takers, therefore no income. Too low, and they lose money. A calculated risk. Therefore a “gamble”. Is it gambling in the sense of a game of chance? No. But you guys are being fooled by the semantics to say speculation, is not a risk, or chance, or probability, or wager, or GAMBLE.
I have made it clear SEVERAL times in this thread that what the OP is doing is NOT recommended. Nor would I do it.
But extract has expressed rather straightforwardly that he KNEW the risks he was taking, and didn’t need the constant preaching at. I don’t know why those wishes weren’t respected. It’s not my money he’s risking, so why should I try and convince him to not take so many chances?
I for one, hope he does it.