5% Drawdown!

Hi fellow traders,
It’s exactly one month of going live, after several months of practicing on a demo account. I ended the month with a 5% draw down, I’m not discouraged. The only stuff I’m quite worried about is, if I’m ever going to be able to discipline myself as to following my trading plan and not changing systems up and down.

I have a question—How much of a draw down will i have to get me worried, considering the fact that i have just $500 in my account???

My happiness is that my wife totally supports my career, i really wanna succeed in forex. I dedicate almost all day studying and staring at my chart and trading

Pls professionals, some motivation!!!

Demo and live are very different!
How did it go demo trading?
Did you (Do) you have a plan?

I trade using pure price action, i know my candlesticks and i choose whether to go long or short for the trading day(market bias) pretty well. I think my problem is not taking profits early enough as my gains always erases at the end of the day.
I wanted to follow the saying (let profits run) but i guess i will be less ambitious with TP from now on and just run with 20-50 pips everyday

It takes practice to develop the mental discipline to adhere to your trading plan. Accept losses. They will always occur.

I have a question—How much of a draw down will i have to get me worried, considering the fact that i have just $500 in my account-10%?, 20%??

Any Answer?

Hopefully you’re downsizing your lots accordingly, as your account temporarily shrinks.

Reverse compounding will definitely prolong the life your account…

And how much drawdown should already be taken into account in your trade plan. That’s always a personal thing. Risk tolerance varies from individual to individual.

There is no way for us to know based on the info provided. If you placed one trade and are now suffering a 5% drawdown then most will say you are risking too much. If you placed three losing trades and are now at 5% drawdown but have throroughly tested your system and still believe it to be profitable… maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

If you are a scalper, have placed 200 trades and are at a 5% draw down – your system sucks.

I hate to say, “It all depends” but… it all depends. The acceptable percentage of draw down in any method of trading is dependant upon the expected win%, number of trades, expected number of consecutive losing trades based on expected win%, reward to risk ratio, etc.

It all depends on the account % that you risk from the beginning…
If you risk 0.1%/trade then 5% is a 50 losers streak so, yes, its a drawdown!
However if your risking >1% then 5% is just typical loss.
According to my risk tolerance, I personally wouldn’t consider a 5% loss a drawdown.
Accept those losses and learn from them!
Find your personal risk tolerance. If 5% is way too much for you then just cut back your risk!

The single most important thing i learn t in the school is “risk management” i try not to risk more than 1% a trade(sometimes 2%)…Well I’m spending the whole of today reflecting and analyzing what i did right/wrong.

Like i stated in my earlier post- i think I’m too ambitious with TP, i should exit manually after noticing exhaustive candlesticks, i shouldn’t be thinking to myself-“maybe it’s just a retracement” when infact price is reversing and erasing all the pips i have gathered for the day

I’m what would probably considered a high(er) risk trader. My trading plan calls for placing as much as a 5% risk per trade with the average position size ringing in at about 3.75%. So for me, 5% drawdown is a single loss.

How much to get worried? Maybe in excess of a 50% drawdown. Maybe even more.

The funds dedicated to trading is money considered to be lost already…so there is really no reason to “worry” at all. With a 40% win ratio, the maths [ln(#LifetimeTrade/ln(LosingPercentage)*-1] tell you that 21 losses in a row are “normal” for such a system. So as long as the losing streak is less than 21 losses…well…it’s all within the design tolerances of the system.

Realistically, I’m resolved to the fact that my approach to trading will eventually bring about the black swan event that will take away 75% of my account balance. Before that time, there will be probably a period of time each year where the balance is reduced by 50%. In the meantime, though, the gains are large enough to justify the risk.

The secret, as far as I can tell, is to remove funds from FX completely at pre-set balance levels. This is due to the fact that big increases in balance are due to the fact that the market is moving “enough” to see big gains which are reflected in the balance sheet. This period of winning due to directional movement is inevitably followed by a period of consolidation where large losing streaks are encountered.

The ideal practice, then would be to remove funds as close to the peek of the winning streak as possible so that when the losing streak hits, it hits against a smaller account balance while you laugh it off because of the large chunk of change sitting safe in your savings account at your local bank. Since one can never know when the “peek” of the winning streak is, however, the next best thing is to just establish layers where you reduce the balance by half or more…

My own approach is to ride the roller coaster regardless of losing streaks until the balance climbs to $75,000. At this point I’ll take out $60,000 which will be there to pay for an entire year’s worth of living expenses. This nest egg extracted from the market will provide a type of mental/emotional cushion for future times of significant drawdown.

When the account grows to $120,000…I’ll extract $60,000 again. This time, however, instead of being left with $15,000 as before, there will be $60,000 in the account. In theory then, it will take less time to go from $60,000 to $240,000 than it will to go from $15,000 to $120,000.

At $240k I estract $120k. Then at $500k I extract $250. From there I just repeat this process.

Each time the account runs up, I’m always aware of the fact that the next loss could be the first in the inevitable black swan series of 21 losses in a row. Every time I extract 50% of the balance I make that inevitable super-loss have less and less meaning to my overall financial picture.

This is my approach to the market and why I consider myself to be a higher risk trader…not a high risk trader.

Wow! that a lot of maths/Arithmetic to comprehend…well i can’t risk 5% in a single trade in a $500 account, especially as i’m new in this industry…I’m counting on my advantages i.e (1). TIME TO STUDY PA (2). FAMILY SUPPORT (3). FORUMS LIKE THIS

Hopefully i don’t blow my account until these advantages play in my favour

No more then 5% a day… Wrap it up if you hit that ceiling…

Its what you take from that losing day as a lesson, and dont repeat it…

Family support is awesome, it definitely helps…

are you 5% DOWN for the month? Or did you recoup?

See, some here see downdraw as a total account, as I see down draw a single trade… I risk 5% total for the day… So, if i hit a bad trade, and it goes neg 5%, Im done… But my goal is a positive 5% for the day… So, in the end, I lose just 1 day of production, and not 1 month… But i average more winning days, then lossing days, so I feel im ahead…

Still demo, mind not right at this minute, but I practice EXACTLY like I would real money…

Good luck,

Yes! 5% draw down for the month… As for demo, i believe going live is better as it involves real money. Trading live comes with emotion, this is exactly why i decided to go live, so i can also develop my psychological side of trading early.

kingtony,

Might be a good idea until the market volatility increases. Recently the average daily high to low ranges have been lower than they were 3-4 months ago and much lower than last year.

If you’re day trading, opening & closing a trade on the same day, you might keep an eye on the daily ATR for the last 14-20 days and base your profit targets on the daily high to low range.

With my own trading for example, last spring I might have been looking for 30 to 50 pips on my day trades, this past week I was happy taking my profits much quicker, even as low as 15, 20 or 25 pips.

good luck!

With my own trading for example, last spring I might have been looking for 30 to 50 pips on my day trades, this past week I was happy taking my profits much quicker, even as low as 15, 20 or 25 pips.

I can run with 20-25 pips, what I’m not comfortable doing though is to increase my lot size so that the 20-25 pips will at least worth something

It’s only you who will know the draw down that will get you worried. Whether you’re risk averse or tolerant, you know yourself better than us.

This is not the way I would like you to learn trading. Do not spend more than 4 hours staring at the charts, you’ll go blind. More importantly do not trade all day. It will kill your account before you knew it. This plan is just a guideline: Trade at most 2 in a day. If all trades that day are losses, turn off your computer. The following day, just trade 1. Only go back to trading 2 per day when you recovered your previous loss.

This is just my 2 cents.

If im totally honest I actually disagree with the above, although i’m not to sure if it’s just the way fxturtle has worded his reply.

One of the biggest killers, in my view, is cutting the number of legitimate trades that you take just because you have had a “bad previous day”. You have a trade plan, so trade that plan to the exact pip. No matter if you get five losses, take that sixth trade, and the seventh. As long as these are legitimate trades, and this is key, dont back away from not taking what would usually be a true trade.

To many people suggest that after a string of losses you should stop trading. As long as your trading plan has been tested, and you have enough evidence to support your reasoning you should have the required confidence to continue. Taking a momentarily “pause” just because you have had a few losses will totally ruin your trading performance. What if those trades that you didnt take were the trades that would have got you back to your watermark - and then when you start trading again you hit yet more losses.

Trading legitimate trades is what matters - keep the physiological elements away from trading.

kingtony,

I’ll try to give you an example how the ATR can help with day trading profit targets. Right now my broker’s 20 day ATR for EUR/USD is about 70 pips. (I’m using a broker with a Sunday candle so the ATR is a little low but close enough.)

So if I’m entering a trade as New York opens and the high to low range for the day is already put in 55 pips, to be on the save side and for the high probability score, I would set a profit target for 15 to 20 pips.

Now if I was entering earlier in the trading day as London was opening and the day’s high to low range had only put in 30 pips, I would be thinking of a profit target more along the lines of 40 pips.

There will be days when the market moves a lot more that the ATR so sometime a 2nd or 3rd order with a tight trailing stop can be used to catch those big moves. But you’ll find the high probability profit targets will usually be close to the average daily range.

If you’re taking multi day trades, keep an eye on the weekly ATR for your targets. Hope this makes sense and helps.

Now if I was entering earlier in the trading day as London was opening and the day’s high to low range had only put in 30 pips, I would be thinking of a profit target more along the lines of 40 pips.

I’m in Africa, my time correlates with London open, so i can catch a potential entry early enough to bag me some pips, the little problem now is that i find entry off the 1 hr time frame, this means that sometimes good trade entries show up around the London/Ny overlap were the possibility of price to reverse/correct itself is near… But like you, i will enter a trade around this time(London/NY Overlap) but i will be less ambitious with TP