Account balance for mini 10k lots

I am still in elementary school :13:

I am going to open a practice account with forex.com

When I eventually open a live account I am looking at investing $2500-5000 USD
Do you guys think with 10k lots a $2500 dollar balance is too little

I know this is a very vague question due to the fact of calculating value of pips and all that jazz but generally speaking is 2500 enough for 50:1 leverage trades.

Those of you who are worried about my newbieness don’t worry I am still miles away from opening a live account =]

Play with this it should help Forex Money Management

Wow pretty helpful…which brings up another question =D

How much of a 2500 balance should be risked at any one point?

How much of a 5000 balance should be risked at any one point?

I was thinking 1%-5% for both

What is your opinion on this?

Thanks for helping a newbie a lot of people don’t believe it or not.

The percentage risked on an account is clearly suseptable to personal opinion - however typically retail traders risk on average between 1% - 3% per trade, what is more important is total exposure. Should you decide to risk 2% per trade, and have 5 trades open; all of a sudden you have 10% at risk - so the latter would be considered more important.

One question that’s been on my mind during my schooling is about money management, risk/reward and so on. There’s countless schools of thought that hover around a) using a pip/percentage target system or b) using a fixed figure target.

I’m aware that one can access different leverage/margin opportunities and this can measurably increase the profit/loss potential on each trade. But from my perspective, the purpose of considering being an active/pro-trader is that it could relieve me of a need to earn income elsewhere. Irrespective of what sized trading account I go live with, or what percentage or PIP amount I make each week - if the end result isn’t a particular dollar amount to cover my living expenses - then I’d still need to earn income elsewhere.

Some examples. Let’s say my monthly expenses are $3,000.
If I open a trading account and deposit $5,000 - and only have positions open to total a maximum of 10% of it per instance, then using a broker with a 200:1 leverage/margin - I could open positions up to $100,000. e.g. my PIP value here is $10 give or take. So in this scenario - I’d need to profit by at least 300 pips, per month to cover my expenses.

If I instead, deposited $50,000 using the same ratios above - then I would only need to profit 30 or more pips per month, as I could open a position of $1,000,000 using $5,000 of my capital. My risk:reward ratio hasn’t changed, I’m doing the same as I was before - but using a bigger account size, enables me to seek a smaller PIP or dollar target per month.

I’m aware that if I only opened with $500 - then I’d be seeking 3,000 pips per month, which I think is unreasonable.

In any case I don’t think a 30 pip target per month is unrealistic. It could be one trade that earns this. I also don’t think that 300 pips per month in profit is unrealistic.

I’m also clear that many traders who start out might not literally have lots of capital, so either their risk would need to be greater, or they’d need to be happy with a smaller return each month. For me - the notion of trading, and concept revolves around it being a good use of capital, and being somewhere that could eventually cover my expenses so I could trade ‘for a living’. Regardless of what account size I open - I guess I’m perplexed at whether I should look at my account opening size and then make my targets, or whether I should stick to a more fixed target model?

The thing as I’ve read around the web, on forums, and on countless ‘summaries’ of what mistakes beginner traders apparently make is that newbies, seem to open on the average smaller sized accounts, but trade in faster time intervals, and seek higher rewards to cover their early stage losses (which, as are ongoing losses; inevitable), yet, longer term ‘pro-traders’ who probably have more in their capital accounts, do longer term time frames, and make more money. The thing is - the longer term traders, on the assumption they have a lot of capital in their accounts - could presumably trade larger lot sizes on the same ratios - and make ostensibly a lot more profit.

Of course if you keep escalating my example above out - a trader with $1m of capital in their account, could use 10% of it for a position of 20m units where each pip value = approx $2,000. Of course for them to clear 1.5 pips + whatever the spread is would yield the same dollar profit as the trader with a $500 capital account who needs 3,000 pips to get the same dollar profit.

The pip movement in a trade, assuming a different lot size/position size but the same ratio - will yield the same percentage in profit/loss. but the dollar result on the account, actual dollars banked/lost are vastly different.

I wonder if anyone can shed light. In my case - I’m looking at this specifically as a career - and I’m sure many others do too. I’m therefore totally realistic in my belief that unless I can support my financial needs without over leveraging or over-risking, then I need to refine my goals - otherwise I risk getting too aggressive to support my goals rather than remaining steadfast to the plan.

I would personally forget about measuring success in terms of pips, there is a reason why all financial papers, news and websites illustrate the gain/loss of any financial asset as a percentage. Percentages are constant, pips are not.

What you need to ask yourself is what can you make as a percentage gain each month on average, not what percentage gain do you want to make each month on average. We all want more, but reality is reality.

In my opinion , you have already taken the first steps in becoming a successful anything, especially trading. What new and some experienced traders can’t get in their minds, is that trading is personal as Jezzode explained in the above post. There is no one size that fits all and you need to use proven successful strategies learn them 1st, then personalize them to fit your goals, circumstances, personality and expierences. You are right with money management there are countless schools of thought and what works for one person may not and probably won’t work for the next person. The trick is to make the same mistake the least amount of times as possible, by thinking before you act. Take the time to gather the relevant facts, look at the relevant options and then think about which one is the least of the evils based on your circumstances not anyone else s.

For example most successful traders agree to be successful long term, you have to address 3 areas: 1. the method you trade with; 2. the money management you use; 3. your mindset by learning to be disciplined and patient. However not everyone agrees with the path taken to address each of the three. Take method. Everyone is trying to have the same result; where has price been and where is it going to go. Some use indicators, some don’t, some look at short term, some look at long term. The approach that I was taught was to break your individual trade down to: trend, momentum, cycle, support and resistance and verify on 3 time frames. Even though I use the same approach as the person who taught me, I do not use the same method.

Same applies to money management. In poker a successful poker player says, as long as you have a “chip and a chair,” you’re not out of the game. A successful trader would say by using a proper stop loss, you will still be able to trade again should things not go your way on a particular trading session. Both are saying the same thing “ no matter how you approach money management always protect your bankroll."

Even though you will (or should) have the same goal of “always protect your bankroll,” the approach you need (or should) take has to be based on what you are trying to accomplish, based on your circumstances, experiences and time frame. For example take 2 newbie’s that want to become full time traders. Both have $500 to start. One might say, I’m going to take longer and use the least amount of leverage, trade higher time frames, risk less with a change to get back larger gains. I’m going to place my stoop loss far enough back to give my trade time to breath. The other might say, I’m going to do this in a shorter time by using a higher leverage, trade shorter time frames, more trades and place my stop loss back far enough to give my trade a chance to breath. Even though they both want to be full time traders and want to build their bankrolls and both use stop losses, their approach to building their bankroll is different. Traders debate which approach is the best over and over. But the common option in both camps is “one of the ways you protect your bankroll is by using a stop loss and traders will debate the best stop loss to use is: fixed, trailing, entered or mental.

In my opinion figure out what you’re trying to achieve by trading, use a money management strategy that fits your personality, circumstances and experiences and will get you where you want to go, then work it. Don’t forget Rome wasn’t built in a day, neither will your success as a trader be built in a day. One more thing, don’t try to use short term approaches to long term strategies or the other way around; it never works.
Good Luck
Gp

thanks for the replies all. As a newbie, I want to clarify my understanding.

If my money management strategy is not to open positions exceeding more than 10% of my account equity at one time, and my goal of profit per month is $3,000 - then am I correct in the following calculations?

If my capital is $500, based on a 10% limit and 200:1 leverage - I could open a position of maximum 10,000 units, with pip value of $1 therefore would need to profit by 3,000 pips per month to achieve my goal

If my capital is $10,000, based on a 10% limit and 200:1 leverage - I could open a position of maximum 200,000 units, with pip value of $20 therefore would need to profit by 150 pips per month to achieve my goal

and if my capital is $100,000, based on a 10% limit and 200:1 leverage - I could open a position of maximum 2,000,000 units, with pip value of $200 - therefore would need to profit by 15 pips per month to achieve my goal?

Is my above understanding correct?

Money management stays the same each time - the only thing that changes is my true pip goal reduces to achieve desired dollar target of profit each month based on account capital size, and position size. To me - if I’m getting it correct - while the money management system is the same - in fact the pressure is significantly less on an account with a goal of only 15 pips profit per month, based on $200 per pip.

Would appreciate advice if my calculations are correct?