" Automatic " Trailing Stop + " Automatic " scaling in, every

200 Pips.

Good Afternoon,
I have a few questions please, regarding how to properly setup the trailing stop and Scale in feature , on a per trade basis

For Example:

Assumes I’m trading on a Micro account
And am trading 5 micro lots at entry
I want the trade ( if possible ) to automatically add 5 micro lots , every 200 pips that I make on the trade.

Let’s say I enter a trade on AUD/USD at 1.0200 ( going Short )
My stop is 200 pips above 1.2000 , so stop would be placed at 1.0400 ( for a $200 risk )

What I am wanting to have done ( Automatically ) , is to have my trade " Trail " the trade by 200 pips, EVERY TIME that I make 200 pips on the trade, for the entire duration of the trade.
While also, having 5 micro lots added to my position every time I make 200 pips on the trade.

Hopefully what I am trying to convey makes sense :slight_smile:

I have also added a few screenshots , showing what I believe to be the correct way to set up the forementioned trading parameters .

Just need some clarification that I am going about it correctly please.

And lastly,
In one of the screenshots , there are 3 different Stops ( where I wish to scale into my position ).
My question is, is this how I place this type of position?

Thanks again,
really appreciate all the help and input - Michael



Just a quick side note:
I also would like the trade to trail my trade by 200 pips , no matter if the trade pullsback on me 180 pips … I don’t want the trailing stop to move from it’s original 200 pip trail, even in the event that a trade does pullback say, 180 pips on me , etc.

Thanks again

This probably not the answer you were looking for but there are many advantages in moving the stop on your own. Learn how to put stops in the market and how to do it yourself. By doing so you will save yourself a lot of grief, trust me. If you tried doing it yourself an it is not for you for whatever reason only than try trailing. Many will disagree with me but remember I am trying to save you a lot of grief.

Hi Michael,

Your Trading Station platform gives you the choice of either a Fixed or Dynamic trailing stop. With a Fixed trailing stop, the Stop value will only adjust after your trade has advanced by the full 200 pips. At that point, the Stop will move 200 pips along, and your Fixed trailing stop will start counting down 200 pips from that new level. For example, suppose you bought EUR/USD at 1.1100 and set a 200-pip Fixed trailing stop at 1.0900. If your trade advanced to 1.1300 , then your Stop would adjust to 1.1100, and your trailing stop would start counting down from 200 for every pip your trade advances above 1.1300.

By contrast, a Dynamic trailing stop will adjust each time your trade advances. For example, suppose you bought EUR/USD at 1.1100 and set a 200-pip Dynamic trailing stop at 1.0900. If your trade advanced to 1.11001, then your Stop would adjust to 1.09001.

Below is an example of a Market Order with a 200-pip Dynamic trailing stop . Note that I check the “In pips” box instead of type my Stop rate manually.

You can do this by creating multiple Entry orders spaced 200 pips apart, each to buy 5k with a 200-pip Dynamic trailing stop. Below is an example of the first such Entry order with the buy price 200 pips higher than the rate of our original Market order.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Jason,
thank you so much for the reply and posting the screenshots.

Being able to see how to place these orders definitely helps

I did have a few questions please…

  1. Just want to make sure I understand it correctly … The Fixed Trailing Stop is the one I want, If I wish the stop to stay in place and NOT move, Until I make 200 pips on the trade. And then each time I make 200 pips, than and only then will the 200 pip Fixed Trailing Stop move , and thus stay put and trail the trade by 200 pips ?

So if I’m in a trade and the trade goes against me say… 175 pips, I want to make sure that the stop stays put and doesn’t move … so a Fixed Trailing Stop will do just this ? :slight_smile:

  1. Regarding having 5 micro lots added to my position ( scale-in ) at each 200 pip profit that is made on the trade,
    I will need to add however many Individual 200 pip profit target " Scale-In " points on my chart , spaced 200 pips apart and just make sure that I have the Buy Price on each Order Entry 200 pips above each proceeding 200 pip target ?

Will the Rate always need to be a " Negative " number correct … like it shows in the screenshot for the scaling in AND for the stop loss ?
The main thing is making sure that for the Trailing Stop Loss, that I place, is 200 pips BELOW ( for a Long trade ) my entry
and that each 200 pip Profit Target is 200 pips ABOVE my entry / each higher 200 pip subsequent profit target

  1. With using a Trailing Stop Loss. … is there anyway to " Hedge " / a safety mechanism I can put in place, to guard me against a Black Swan event, and preventing a trade from going against me so quick and by so much that it blows right past my Trailing Stop and I incur a much greater loss than intended ?

Jason,
Thank you again sir for all of your help.
Can’t thank you enough - Michael

It’s my pleasure, Michael :slight_smile:

I believe you have understood the Fixed Trailing Stop correctly, but just to be sure, please review my earlier comparison of the Fixed Trailing Stop to the Dynamic Trailing Stop:

The Trading Station will guide you as to whether the pip number should be negative or positive. In the example I provide, the number was negative because it was a long position and the stop should be below the market price. With a short position, the pip number would be positive since a stop should be above the market price.

FXCM offers negative balance protection on forex trading of up to $50,000 per client through our UK and AU entities. However, this protection cannot be extended to US clients because of CFTC regulation 5.16 which states that a broker may not in any way represent that it will guarantee against losses. This rule applies to all US forex accounts regardless of the broker.

It’s important to note that when a stop loss (SL) order is triggered, it becomes a market order. That means it will get filled at the best available price in the market which may not be the original price you requested. This is not a bad thing. Imagine the alternative. If a stop loss order could only be filled at the price you requested and that price was not available in the market, then your trade would remain open even if the market continued to move against you further and further resulting in even greater losses.

When an order gets filled at a different price than you requested, that is called slippage. Unlike with some other brokers, slippage with FXCM can be either positive or negative. Positive slippage is when your order gets filled at a better price than you requested. A study of over 43 million orders executed through FXCM during a twelve-month period revealed the following:

[ul]
[li]76.2% of all orders had NO SLIPPAGE.
[/li][li]13.5% of all orders received positive slippage.
[/li][li]10.2% of all orders received negative slippage.
[/li][li]Over 58% of all limit and limit entry orders received positive slippage.
[/li][li]Over the course of that year, FXCM clients benefited from over $21 million in positive slippage.
[/li][/ul]

Note that with FXCM, positive slippage is more common than negative slippage. It’s only that positive slippage is more common with limit orders, while negative slippage is more common with stop orders. That’s due the momentum of price movement when such order types are triggered.

Hi Jason,
I really appreciate your reply and for all of your help

Did want to run by you, a quick Leverage question … I re-opened a new account the other day, and put on a Short in GBP/USD last night ( trading micro Lots ) and also only trading 1 micro Lot for this trade

Under Usd Mr , it shows 18.00
And under the MMR for GBP/USD it shows 36.00

So is this 18.00 under Usd Mr representing the 50:1 leverage, since 18 is 50% of 36 ( GBP/USD’s MMR ) ?

Thank you again for your time and help, really appreciate it


If you short 5 mics at 1.2000 with a stop 200 pips from entry at 1.0400, you are risking $100 not $200. (2005.10=$100) So the possibilities of this implementation are:

  1. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and are stopped out at 1.0400 for a $100 loss.

  2. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and 5 more at 1.0000 and are stopped out of all 10 mics at 1.0200 thus breaking even on the first 5 mics and losing $100 on the second 5 mics for a total loss of $100.

  3. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and 5 more at 1.0000 and another 5 mics at 0.9800 and are stopped out of all 15 mics at 1.0000 thus making $100 on the first 5 mics, breaking even on the second 5 mics, and losing $100 on the third 5 mics for a total breakeven (no loss or gain).

  4. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and 5 more at 1.0000 and another 5 mics at 0.9800 and another 5 mics at 0.9600 and are stopped out of all 20 mics at 0.9800 thus making $200 on the first 5 mics, $100 on the second 5 mics, breaking even on the third 5 mics, and losing $100 on the fourth 5 mics for a total profit of $200.

I am assuming you will not add beyond that fourth entry level of 0.9600.

  1. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and 5 more at 1.0000 and another 5 mics at 0.9800 and another 5 mics at 0.9600 and you watch the price hit 0.9400 and then you are stopped out of all 20 mics at 0.9600 thus making $300 on the first 5 mics, $200 on the second 5 mics, $100 on the third 5 mics, and breaking even on the fourth 5 mics for a total profit of $600.

  2. You get in short 5 mics at 1.0200 and 5 more at 1.0000 and another 5 mics at 0.9800 and another 5 mics at 0.9600 and you watch the price hit 0.9200 and then you are stopped out of all 20 mics at 0.9400 thus making $400 on the first 5 mics, $300 on the second 5 mics, $200 on the third 5 mics, and $100 on the fourth 5 mics for a total profit of $1000.

  3. Moves downward without a 200 pip bounce above any new 200 pip level will add $400 profit to the total until finally one gets a 200 pip bounce and you are stopped out.

Considered overall, you are betting that the price will fall from 1.0200 down to 0.9600 before you are stopped out. If the price fails to fall 600 pips from 1.0200 to 0.9600 before you are stopped out you will either lose money or break even.

Is that truly what you want to bet? That AUD/USD will fall 600 pips from 1.0200 to 0.9600 without a 200 pip bounce?

Even if that is what you want to bet, do you realize that although you are not setting a profit target in the order entry window, you are thus setting a profit target? If you simply set a profit target on 5 mics at 0.9800 without adding to the position and your target is hit you will profit the $200 profit this setup would yield only after the price hit 0.9600 with a 15 mic position. This setup would only break even at that level. If you set the target on 5 mics at 0.9600 and it gets hit then you make $300 with 5 mics rather than the $200 this 20 mic setup would make. And if your target on 5 mics was 0.9400 and it is hit, then you would make $400 on 5 mics while this setup would make $600 with 20 mics (a mere 50% profit increase with a 400% increase in risk).

This setup is ADDING risk while diminishing possible returns. The price has to move farther in favor of your position to make the same amount of profit with a smaller position. If the next black swan hands you 800 pips in slippage costs and you are holding 15 mics you will have a loss 3 times greater than 5 yet if everything goes as planned you are likely to make less than simply trailing your stop on 5 mics without adding to the position. (If your price target was 0.9600 on 5 mics and just pips before it is hit an illiquid move 800 pips up to 1.0415 hands you all that slippage you would lose $107.50; if the same price action occurred with this set up you would lose $107.50 on the first 5 mics, $207.50 on the second 5 mics, and $307.50 on the third for a total loss of $622.50 even though the profit potential on that setup for price action that just misses that 0.9600 level is ZERO). There are other ways to “scale in and out” of positions that will actually increase profit potential rather than decrease it.

-Adrian

Hi Michael,

US regulations allow a maximum leverage of 50:1 on currency trades, but the actual leverage available to you on our platform will vary from one currency pair to the next.

Below are examples showing how you can determine the exact amount of leverage available to you on a given currency pair.

With an FXCM US account, the minimum margin requirement (MMR) for GBP/USD is $36.00 per micro lot. A micro lot is 1000 units (1k) of base currency. That means $36 in margin allows you to control 1000 GBP in notional value. The current GBP/USD exchange rate is about 1.53000. Therefore, $36 in margin allows you to control 1530 USD. If you divide $1530 by $36, you get 42.5 which means your available leverage on GBP/USD is 42.5:1.

The MMR for USD/CAD is $20.00 per micro lot. That means $20 in margin allows you to control $1000. Therefore, your available leverage on USD/CAD is 50:1 ($1000/$20).

Since I live in the US, my maximum leverage is limited to 50:1 by CFTC/NFA regulations. (Non-US traders can get access to higher leverage through FXCM’s non-US entities such as FXCM UK and FXCM Australia.) However, I never use more than 10:1 effective leverage. You might enjoy reading this earlier discussion on effective leverage.

Hi Adrian and Jason,
thank your both for replying to this thread and shedding some great insight on the topic at hand

The scaling into positions and adding to them as the trade moves in your favor, is something I have been wondering how to properly do, and if even by doing so, does it provide any sort of advantage or " Edge " to do so … This is the question at hand

So I did some reading and research online, and I came across two separate articles ( both from the same author and site ) and he really broke the Scaling-In method down , and explains how to trail your trade, each and every time that you scale-in and add to it.
As well as explains at what point the trade becomes a " Free " trade.

Wanted to get both of your opinions please ,
here are the Links to the two Articles …

  1. Pyramiding - A Money Management Strategy To Increase Profits » Learn To Trade

  2. Pyramid Trading Strategy | Pyramid Money Management » Learn To Trade

From these articles , it seems that a move of 200 pips on the trade ( in your favor ) is the sweet spot for you to be in a free/risk free trade… while never having more at risk than your initial amount when the trade was first put on

I wonder the following,
in his examples, he keeps a 100 pip trailing stop for the duration of the trade,
and in my time of following the Forex markets and especially in swing trading and holding a trade for days and up to weeks at a time, the odds of the trade pulling back on you by 100 pips is quite likely.

So my thinking is… use his method for scaling into trades, but instead of a 100 pip stop at entry ( and thus adding to your position at each 100 pip that the trade moves in your favor ), why not start out with a 200 pip stop at entry, as this would then allow us to rail the trade by 200 pips, which gives us more room for the trade to pullback against us, but hopefully not take us out :slight_smile:

Just wanted to share my findings and get both of your opinions, as well as any other members who wish to contribute.

Thanks so much, really appreciate you guys help

Hi Michael,

I looked at the articles you mentioned, and the author’s method on scaling into a position seems sound. Your idea of widening the trailing stop has some merit, but you may find it difficult to watch a trade that was 200 pips in your favor do a 100% retracement, stop you out and leave you with nothing to show for it.

However, it’s worth noting that I don’t scale into trades at all. Most of my trades only last a couple of days to a couple of weeks. I see scaling in as something that would be more applicable to longer term trading.

Instead of scaling into trades, I increase my overall trade size each time my equity rises by a certain dollar amount, so that my leverage remains in proportion to my account balance. I try not to exceed 10:1 effective leverage, so the face value of all my open positions is about 10 times my equity.

This is the problem, you cannot add to the position without adding risk EVER. Your stop position is not a guaranteed exit. You can get handed big amounts of slippage (hundreds, even thousands of pips) without notice.

I don’t think what the author is saying is sound at all. He is telling you to increase your risk while decreasing your profit potential. I explained the mechanism of that previously.

-Adrian

Just some of my thoughts regarding Scaling-In / Black Swan and or Flash Crashes…

" When we keep adding Lots to our position , each time we scale-in , we are compounding the number of " Overall " lots

What if we have scaled into the trade and at that point we are now in a " FREE " trade … If a Black Swan event were to occur or an upheaval in the markets as it were when the Swiss Franc lead to a market crash in the CHF pairs .
Would we now be more prone for a greater Loss if an event as mentioned above were to occur due to us adding to our position each and every say 100 pips that the trade moves in our favor ?

Example:
We opened the position with 5 micro lots, and are plan is to scale-in and add 5 micro lots per 100 pips that the trade movies in our favor.

So the trade moves 100 pips in are favor and we add 5 micro lots ( we now have 10 micro lots on this trade )

The trade moves another 100 pips in our favor and we add yet another 5 micro lots to the trade ( we now have 15 micro lots on this trade ) … for a $1.50 per pip amount

Now what if at this point a flash crash / black swan event occurs, and just blows right through are trailing stop
and we are now taking a much greater loss o the trade, due to having 15 micro lots on the trade ( from scaling in )
VS
having just 5 micro lots on the trade, had we not scale din at all , and thus a smaller over all loss from NOT scaling in

I know that Black Swans and Flash Crashes don’t happen all that often … just wondering if there’s a safety net or way to protect ourselves from having are trailing stop blown through and suffering even greater losses as we look to scale into are trades ? "

Thank you two both again for your replying to his thread, I appreciate it

You can scale in and out of trades in a different way that actually increases profit potential and reduces risk. What you can do is divide a 1% risk trade into two 0.5% risk trades in separate accounts that each enter and exit at different points. You can even divide a 1% risk trade into three 0.333% risk trades in three separate accounts. This is called system diversification.

Suppose your trading capital is $10,000. $100 is one percent. You put a small amount sufficient to meet margin requirements in three different accounts and trade AUD/NZD with a ten, twenty, and thirty day price channel system in each account respectively risking $33.33 per trade (one third of one percent). From mid March to late September 2013 you have the following results:


You have two short trades in the ten day system. Each time you enter a trade you set your stop at the top of the price range and put on a position size that sets your risk from entry to stop at $33.33. The first trade wins 385 pips on a trade with an initial stop distance of 227 pips. Because your position size set that 227 pip risk at $33.33, your profit was $56.53.

The second trade on the ten day wins 376 pips on an initial stop distance of 259 pips and your profit is $48.39. So the ten day system never risks any more than 0.33% of your account (plus slippage) and wins a total of $104.92 (1.04% on your $10,000).


The twenty day system gave just one trade. It initially risked 319 pips and won 799 pips. The position size on this trade was smaller than those on the ten day system because the stop distance was wider. Although the initial stop distance was 319 pips, you still risked $33.33 and won $83.48 (0.83% on your $10,000).


The thirty day system also gave just one trade that initially risked 410 pips and won 628 pips. Again, this one had an even smaller position size and risked $33.33 and won $51.05 (0.51% on your $10,000).

Your total risk in all of this never exceeded 1% of your $10,000 (albeit slippage could have handed you more). Your position sizes from April 9 to June 3 would have been around 2329 units on the ten day, 1657 units on the twenty, and 1289 units on the thirty thus totaling 5275 units. Slippage in an event of illiquidity would cost you roughly 33.26 cents per pip collectively in all three systems. So for every ten percent move in AUD/NZD against you, slippage would hand you a loss of around $414.09 (4.14%). Because of that, your account is very likely to survive even a nasty black swan event. While a 20% slip would cause some bankruptcies and a lot of blowups around the globe, your account would take an 8.28% hit and move on.

So during this period your three systems won $104.92, $83.48, and $51.05 respectively for a total of $239.05 (a 2.39% gain on your $10,000).

You will notice that you scaled into the full three pieces over a couple of weeks and then scaled out of one piece during the bumpy June only to scale back in for more. If you examine these three systems over time you will find that there are times when one is getting whipsawed while others are staying in trades for a win. By trading all three you increase your chances of success and reduce your chances of choosing the one system that will lose for the year. There may be times that you will go in on one system but suffer a quick loss and be glad you took just a 0.33% risk while staying out of the others that were not triggered.

Scaling in and out is for putting on small pieces at a time, not for pushing up leverage in hopes of a major windfall while taking major risks if stops can’t get good execution.

-Adrian

Arbitrager, looking at your myfxbook account, it looks like you are constantly losing money. But at the same time, it also looks like you have trades that are still open that are in extreme profit… or something?
I’m not sure how that works, but are you even getting any profits? I have just sort of skimmed through your posts to see if you already answered this, but I don’t quite understand what I’m reading so far and I’m not sure if you’ve answered that question yet.

Thanks!

Jerry Parker said: “There are no such things as drawdowns”. This is a bit of a joke, but it is also somewhat true.


The above myfxbook equity curves are for a 4 week system that I began implementing last April. It looks typical for such a system which cuts losses short and lets profits run. The red line is the closed growth curve. As you can see, it is a gradual smooth downward slope produced by lots of small losses that are all very similar. It is that way because every loss is purposely the same maximum size. If you look through the history of the closed trades for this system you will find only a couple of trades that lost just over 2%. The trades that made that curve were largely those that were stopped out with a loss. There are some others in there that were small wins as you can see that the red curve does bounce up here and there.

But the yellow line is the equity of the account including the open trades. As this system leaves profitable trades open without any profit target and grooms stops until they are taken out, there are trades that are still open today that were opened in April when I first started to run this system. (*Ignore the strange and annoying points where the yellow line drops down to the red and then back up, that is some myfxbook error. The equity did not actually fall down and shoot back up like that.)

As you can see, If I had closed all trades on September 1 I would have landed with 65.11% growth from April 6 to September 1. But that of course is a no no for this system. I will not close trades until the stops are taken out as planned. If the open trades continue to go on for months and I get to groom stops on those trades for much more profit, I will do so. I am in no hurry to take profits and risk missing further moves in my favor.

What will ultimately happen is the stops I am grooming on the open trades will be taken out and the yellow line will fall some, but the red line will rise. A system like this can take more than a year to fully implement and the other systems (the ten week and the twenty week) which I am just now launching in new accounts that will be tracked on myfxbook can take years to fully implement. A pair can go years without giving a new twenty week signal.

The realized profits will come with time but if I start taking profits without waiting for the system to do it for me I will damage the profitability of the system long term. So the best I can say is simply have a look at those systems in the coming months and years as they continue to run. If you are not familiar with those kinds of systems look at the Donchian Channel Thread hosted by forex mike.

There have been a great many traders who have profited from systems like these. The Turtles are among them (Jerry Parker was one of the Turtles). If you are not familiar with the Turtles, you can download Mike Covel’s book on the subject here. What Jerry Parker meant by “There are no such things as drawdowns” is that the equity curves of trend following traders usually show drawdowns for the closed equity of the account, but meanwhile show continued growth for the open trade equity of the account. So in one sense it is true that they are in a drawdown, but they are not concerned about that because they are seeing real growth in their open trade equity and they have stops that have been groomed deep into that equity and if all those stops were triggered today they would actually see a lot of growth in the closed equity of the account.

-Adrian