hello
usd/jpy
Hi Dale,
I see you use AO and AC for trading, Iâm wandering since you use Bill Williams tools, do you also use his fractals as part of your trade?? He DOES suggest using fractals and the alligator as part of trading (if fractals are IN the aligators mouth, donât trade), my question is, if you DO use these indicators as well is does the actualy âARROWâ that is above/below the candle representing the fractal have to be in the aligators mouth too or is it just the candle?
thanks
Thank you for your insight on this strategy âBill Williams Awesome Oscillatorâ
My question is: Does it matter when you get into the trade? Do you have to wait to the begging of a time frame for example (Monthly Chart) or Weekly? wait for the new bar to come up or can you get in in the middle of the time period?
Regards,
Jose Azcarate, FL, USA.
Another question for me is âhow many periods do you trade simultaneouslyâ. Is it ok to trade the Daily, Weekly and the Monthly at the same time? Does each period require the same amount of funds invested or can they amounts be different.
Regards,
Jose. FL. USA.
I hope this thread is still alive. I am using Williams AO with an OSMA indicator and a RSI with seems to be excellent results on a Demo.
Does anyone have any other confirmation signals that seem to be relevant?
Try using the Stochastic of the RSI along with the AO- I like that indicator quite a bit and just started using the AO for easy entry signals-
It seems to keep you out of the market quite a bit which is VERY GOOD-= IMO-
Also- what time frames are you using mainly?
Thx-
Good morning,
GEEZ: talk about âa blast (thread) from the pastâ!!! LOL!!! (This THREAD may not be âstill aliveâ but I most certainly am)!!! LOL!!!
To be honest: it was quite amusing for me to read my first post (the thread starter) after all this time. Oh how CLEVER I thought I was back then!!! How SURE I was that I was a ânaturalâ at this and that Iâd leave everybody else behind âtrailing in my dustâ!!! LOL!!! Yep: âthose were the days my friendâ!!! (Actually NOT)!!! LOL!!!
Donât get TOO confident in what youâre âseeingâ. In other words: donât do what I did when I started this thread (and one or two âchoiceâ others for that matter). For some reason or the other (especially when starting out) the tendency is to take a look at a few charts which are representative of only a small insignificant moment in time and âcherry pickâ some (always profitable of course) trades. What Iâm saying is this: one of the most valuable things that you can do for yourself is to PAPER TRADE (and I mean that LITERALLY i.e. with pencil and paper and NOT some type of âautomated backtestingâ) using a good few YEARS worth of data. If you show an overall profit: then âgo for itâ. No: it does not necessarily mean that if your PAPER TRADING shows an overall profit you will continue to profit in the future but at least the PROBABILITY of being profitable in the future is âskewedâ in your favour (if you PAPER TRADE a good few years worth of data and every year is a loss then what would make a reasonable person think that things WILL be different in the future).
What Iâm saying is this: AO (on its own) is NOT everything I made it out to be back then I can assure you. Based on some âresearchâ done by a good friend of mine last year however: the ENTIRE âProfitunity Trading Systemâ (Bill Williamsâ âTrading Chaosâ) CAN be profitable the caveat being that it (like most other trading systems) is NOT profitable across ALL markets (as one could easily be fooled into believing when reading the documentation for the system).
The above being said: some of you say that youâre having good results combining AO with other indicators. I donât (no longer anyway) believe there is any âright wayâ or âwrong wayâ to trade. In other words: if this combination of indicators is working for YOU then who am I (or anyone else) to tell you to NOT use this combination of indicators. Once again though: PAPER TRADE your combination of indicators using a LOT of data and you may be very surprised at the results i.e. what made you âearly retirement materialâ over the past six months could very well have âbroken the bankâ over the past five years!!!
For the record: I donât use AO or any other of Bill Williamsâ indicators or trading systems.
Iâm sorry: I know Iâm not telling you things that you want to hear but I think my advice dispensed is WAY more valuable than my telling you that AO IS or IS NOT a good indicator!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Thanks for the advice Dale.
My pleasure bigz if youâre still around that is i.e. I notice that the above post is your only post.
I have no idea what made me take a look at this old thread of mine today but something struck me: almost all of the last few posts on this thread have been posted by members with only one or two posts and theyâve then vanished!!! Do you think Iâm scaring people off here??? LOL!!! Either that or AO is a lot WORSE than I thought and itâs single-handedly caused these members to wipeout their accounts!!! LOL!!!
Put it this way: donât just give up anybody (most certainly not based purely on any one thing that I may have posted)!!! LOL!!! Iâm a firm believer in the âanyone can tradeâ notion. Google âTurtle Tradingâ or âTurtle Trading Experimentâ (or phrases like that) and youâll see what I mean.
Take a good look around here i.e. there are many good traders and some decent trading systems here. If those donât suit you then take a look at my homepage (I believe you can do this by clicking on my username âdpatersoâ and then clicking on âVisit Homepageâ and youâll get the idea).
Regards,
Dale.
Hi Dale 
⌠Well, now this would be my second post. Anyway, I was looking around for more information on the usage of AO and AC as well as Gator and stumble upon this forum. I am a newbie in the world of Trading. I have never actually done any real online trading in the past. I tried demo account several times and lost. Lucky theyâre only demo, would not imagine if theyâre real account.
Anyway, Iâm very interested in trading on Gold instead of Forex. Any input what would be the good trustworthy online broker?
Hello,
Well Iâm sure glad youâre âbackâ i.e. I was getting worried there for a minute (as noted in my post)!!! LOL!!!
Look: OBVIOUSLY Iâm going to tell you to trade Gold at Deltastock (I donât know if you looked at my forums at techtradercentral.proboards.com but my reasons are given there ASIDE from, of course, âthe obviousâ i.e. my âtitleâ here) but there are many brokers that offer Gold for trading. Once again it comes down to which brokers are âthe real dealâ and which brokers are âbucket shopsâ and âscam artistsâ.
But Iâm pleased to see (and I just KNOW Iâm going to get âsh*tâ for this note) that SOMEONE is prepared to look at trading something OTHER than FOREX pairs!!! LOL!!! If youâve got the âdoshâ ($$$) maybe take a look at trading some Gold ETFs too. Stuff like that.
Put it this way (and for what my opinion is worth and coming from South Africa): Gold is getting to one of those âtoo good to be true highsâ (but let me state that I donât base this on ANY understanding or the fundamentals or anything like that i.e. I donât have the âbrain powerâ to understand the fundamentals obviously because Iâm always wrong and thatâs why I trade with âdotsâ and âlinesâ only)!!! LOL!!!
Spot Gold though is volatile though i.e. Iâm led to believe that the price of Gold is possibly one of the most âmanipulatedâ prices of all the tradeable instruments. Whether this be true or mere âfantasyâ I know now. But I know Iâve seen Gold make some really âweirdâ and âvisciousâ moves for not obvious reaons. Thatâs why I suggesting that maybe looking at a Gold ETF is a possibility i.e. an ETF is not AS susceptible to these moves as is the spot price.
So that, unfortunately, is all I can tell you, based on my own experience with Gold (which has never been good although that being said that was a long time ago i.e. of late Iâve bee âdabblingâ a bit and done some nice shorTER term trades on the price pullbacks but theyâve been nothing spectacular).
If youâre still looking for information on AO, AC, Alligator, and Gator, then take a look at this link (I think I may have posted this somewhere here already but maybe you missed it): Alpari Academy - Market Analysis Guide - Bill Williamâs Chaos Theory - Alpari (UK). Itâs âpretty muchâ the entire system (itâs sort of âparaphrasedâ from his books) i.e. it is the system without all of the theory really. As I said: I good friend of mine did some testing of the entire system once (now about two years ago I guess) and found it to be profitable OVERALL BUT, and as I noted, itâs not profitable across all markets all of the time (then again and to be fair: what trading system is)!!! LOL!!! Itâs BIGGEST problem is how late it gets you into a trade. Put it this way: if Bill Williams is the way you want to go the BEST thing you could do (this from experience) is forget all about everything and just take a look at the âBalance Line Tradesâ section (itâs simply a 13-period EMA applied to the median price i.e. H+L/2 offset 8-periods âinto the futureâ). Thatâs my personal opinion anyway. I believe there are better and far easier and quicker ways to make money (hence the trading systems presented on my forums of course).
And I suppose to be fair: I never REALLY gave Bill Williams much of a âchanceâ i.e. bought ALL THREE of the books along with Wilderâs book and Iâm afraid Iâm definitely âWilder biasedâ so I may be talking out of turn here to be honest. All I DO know is that, as I noted previously, AO on its OWN, is by NO means âall you needâ i.e. that IS a recipe for disaster!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Youâre right that Bill Williams indicators are mostly laggy indicators. Iâm combining these indicators with Parabolic Sar and so far, has been very good for entry and exit point. I canât believe Iâm now up 30% on my demo account (I wish itâs a real account ), in around half a month. I will post the result later on here.
Right now, the strategy is to be discipline and just take a certain amount of Profit. I put 15 pips in most cases. For Gold trade, it would be 100 point. And I only put at most 2 trade at 1 point and stick with it to ensure I still have the leverage in case the price goes into different direction. Another thing, I have never put a stop loss so far. One problem, I was having with stop loss; previously I was always hit by the Stop Loss and overall I almost always lost.
Dale, do you think this Forex trade is a zero sum game? I mean, if I win, someone out there must surely lose?
Any thought?
Good morning.
Well: this is my second attempt at a reply to you this morning i.e. I typed such a GREAT reply to you and when I clicked on the âPost Quick Replyâ button it just dissapeared âas if by magicâ (and I donât know if itâs this site âup to its old tricks againâ because this used to happen often a while back OR if itâs my Internet connection i.e. I now use 3G wireless Internet as opposed to a fixed line ADSL connection and OH BOY what a mistake)!!! LOL!!! Anyway: let me see if I can remember most of my original reply!!! LOL!!!
Actually: maybe itâs a good thing that Iâm having to post my reply to you again because I had to read your post again before replying again and Iâm afraid that I CANNOT be as complimentary NOW as I was in my first reply.
One thing I did say (and am again saying now): if I can help BUT ONE trader be profitable from the start then Iâve accomplished something in my life!!!
At first (when first reading your post this morning) I was really happy for you BUT: I just realised NOW that you say that youâre trading without stops. So, and NOT to discourage you at all, but forget about your 30%!!! If youâre not using stops then you cannot be controlling risk or adhering to a strict set of money management rules and the result WILL ALWAYS, no matter WHO you are, be the same, and itâs never a good result!!!
But letâs see what we can do for you. Iâm not sure what youâre doing (or which part of my advice youâre following) but how about posting some charts and details of what youâre doing and letâs see if we can determine a reasonable place for you to place your stops.
The bottom line is this: your returns have to be sustainable. If youâre âupâ 30% but at any point in time, on any single trade, COULD have lost 50% (or more) of your account then thatâs not sustainable. It only takes ONE bad trade to take you right back to where you started (and normally further back than that) if youâre not managing risk and adhering to a strict set of money management rules. It is generally accepted that you should never risk more than 2% of your capital on any single trade. A lot of people donât understand this concept (and Iâm not saying that youâre one of them but for those that donât understand): it has NOTHING to do with leverage or anything else. Simply put: if you open a trade, and set a stop loss, then the MAXIMUM that you may lose, should that stop loss be hit, cannot, and must not, exceed 2% of your account. Itâs just that simple. Alright: itâs a hard rule to follow. Sometimes I risk 5% and, on occasion, of late, on one or two trades, as much as 10%, but that comes from faith in my trading systems and having a âfeelingâ for âthe perfect setupâ with the said trading systems (and this doesnât happen very often anyway). But Iâll also tell you this: it only takes one 10% loss to quickly remind you that you SHOULD have been risking ONLY 2%!!! LOL!!!
And let me also say that to me: âmental stopsâ donât count. It takes COLD and HARD discipline to use âmental stopsâ (and not even I have reached that level of discipline after all these years and probably will never i.e. itâs just my personality and Iâm therefore forced to use fixed stops) . We as human beings will tend to let a âmental stopâ go âa little furtherâ and then âa little furtherâ and then âjust a LITTLE furtherâ before closing the losing position and by the time youâve decided to do that 50% of your account (or more) could be gone!!!
As far as Bill Williamsâ indicators lagging: unfortunately ALL indicators lag (yes: some worse than others). Itâs trade-off. You can shorten the period used by an indicator but this, of course, inevitably, increases your chance of being whipsawed and, more often than not, the cumulative âcostâ of whipsaws normally exceeds the âcostâ of getting into and out of the trade a bit later as would be the case when using a longer period for an indicator.
As far as FOREX being a âzero sum gameâ??? I personally donât believe it to be. With stocks: most definitely for the simple reason that a listed company only has a finite amount of shares to âgo aroundâ so for somebody to be making money on a share somebody else has to be losing money. But with FOREX??? I donât see it that way (but Iâm sure there are many that will disagree with me and will possibly give you, and I, a good explanation as to why Iâm possibly wrong).
So there you have it. Iâm not trying to discourage you in any way. But I can tell you this: there are very few certainties in this business (if any) OTHER than this: without risk and money management you will not succeed. If there ever was a âgolden ruleâ in any business: then this is the âgolden ruleâ in this business!!! One of my favourite quotes goes SOMETHING like this (and I THINK it was Larry Williams who âcoined the phraseâ but Iâve read it and heard it repeated many times by other professional traders INCLUDING floor traders): âin this business itâs not how much you make itâs how much you DONâT loseâ (something like that anyway)!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Well, I have to post another two posts before I can insert any link. So this would be my 4th post.
Now this would be my 5th post, then I can insert links
Hi there Dale,
Thanks for your elaborate answer. Surely help the real newbie like me 
I hope I can be an excellent trader.
Anyway, I was trading using Demo Account at the moment. Check this out :Futures Trading | Forex Trading Broker | CFDs Trading Broker. Main reason for giving this a demo try because : 1. Found out on the local forum that the fund can be deposited or withdrawn locally through the IB (Futures Galleria â Mini Account Index, Forex & LLG Online Brokerand 2. They can trade commodity such as Gold.
I downloaded their platform and tried the online demo. I went through their Metatrader 4 trading platform and checked out the help > about section. Thereâs this website they link to : Food Calorie Counter | Nutrition Facts Labels | Weight Loss Calories at Maxrichgroup.com. The name of the company turns out to be Max Rich Group limited. But the problem when I try to access the web, the web site is empty and the domain is for sale. How could this be? How can I find out if this particular Trading broker is a legitimate company? Thereâs so many reviews out there.
I also tried a demo account from Deltastock. I found different result between MRG (Max Rich Group) and Delta in terms of the graphs for the same currency pair. This is another shocker for me. They also closed the trade at different time. Is this the case for different trading platforms?
Demo from Max Rich Group
Demo from Delta
In your opinion, what would be better time signals to use? eg: M1, M5, M30, H1, etcâŚ
Hello again.
I cannot say âgood morningâ because itâs not i.e. this weekend Iâve been a a bit of âbenderâ let me tell and I âpayingâ for it today BIG TIME!!! WHEN am I going to LEARN??? LOL!!!
And then, in spite of the above, I get to this rather alarming post!!! LOL!!!
I DO know that this last week there have been âissuesâ with Deltastockâs MetaTrader Demo Accounts (well: the only reason I know this is because I have new client or âcyberfriendâ in Cape Town and he had problem this week with a Deltastock MetaTrader Demo account but Delta Trading was fine i.e. I checked myself on two occasions and he was right. But the problem was not pricing i.e. it was just VERY slow so this is something new which Ill have to take up with âthe powers that beâ on Monday).
That being said I though: I did my own bit of investigating for you and here are three MetaTrader charts (GBP/USD M1 which, as far as I can tell anyway, is the pair and timeframe youâre showing). The FXDD and IBFX are live account (opened sometime a LONG LONG time ago but still have access them thank goodness) and, of course, for good meausure, I included a Deltastock MetaTrader chart too (only a demo like yours though i.e. I only trade with Delta Trading).
Long story short: âtake your pickâ!!! LOL!!!
FXDD:
IBFX:
Deltastock MetaTrader:
Put it this way: not any one of these charts are IDENTICAL although the differences are slight (well the word âslightâ is of course subjective) but all three are WAY different from your Max Rich chart so I have to make the assumption that something âstrangeâ is going at with this Max Rich crowd (and I have to be honest to you: with a name like that Iâd be âwonderingâ and no offense meant of course).
BUT: WELCOME to the world of FOREX!!! LOL!! This an OLD argument of mine i.e. this thing of no two brokers showing the exact same FOREX price or charts!!! And I must admit that Iâve learned something myself this week i.e. I always thought that in the case of MetaTrader: MetaQuotes (who develops and sells MetaTrader) themselves hosts the data and therefore, theoretically, any MetaTrader chart should display the same price and chart for any timeframe up to the 1 hour timeframe but this is obviously not the case. The reason I say this is because this last week, when there was a problem the Deltastock MetaTrader demo accounts, there was not a problem with any other MetaTrader (demo or live) accounts so logically then it means (to me anyway) that a MetaTrader broker hosts the software themselves but this actually is somethig that I need (and want to) investigate further myself and will do so tomorrow. Of course: the only conceivable reason, to my mind anyway, why there can be different prices and price movements between the brokers would be depent on their liquidity provider(s). Come to think of it the guy in Cape Town did indeed ask me why in some cases Deltastockâs MetaTrader demo price for a given pair, not sure at this time which one, was a pip or two different from whatever other brokerâs demo account he was comparing it with. I know that with Delta Trading: Deltastock allows you to choose one of five different liquidty providers OTHER than themselves in order for you to get the âbestâ price (FXCM, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Interactive Brokers, and Dukascopy Bank) so I guess that statement in and of itself means (logically speaking) that there will be different FOREX prices and price movements depending on the liquidty provider not so??? I guess it could be explained away in these terms: it would be the same as getting quoted an entire range of different prices when exchanging CASH foreign currency depending on which bank you went to. So Iâve probably answered my own (and hopefully yours to) question come to think of it.
And youâll note that I said that the charts should be the same (or at very least very similar) up to and including the 1 hour timeframe. The higher timeframes will be different (4 hour and daily) and in SOME cases the weekly and monthly charts may differ slightly at the beginning and end of the week. The reason for this being that it depends in which timezone the broker is situation and on which time they base their charts. IBFX I know for a fact closes their daily charts right on midnight GMT and, whatâs more, for some reason or the other, IBFX opens trading one hour later on a Sunday than any of the other brokers that I know of (Iâve never bothered to find out why this is the case). Iâm not sure on what time FXDDâs charts are based or at what time they close their daily charts. Deltastock closes their daily charts at GMT+2 (unless DST is in effect, as is currently the case, at GMT+1). The bottom line is that for all of the above reasons the charts will differ between brokers. As I said: âwelcome to the world of FOREXâ i.e. is just ONE reason that Iâm no FOREX âfanâ. It doesnât matter on which website I look or at which brokers chart I look: at any given point in time the price of the Dow (as but one example) IS âXâ and thatâs it. Thereâs (99% of the time anyway) no two different prices for the Dow or S&P 500 or the NASDAQ ANYWHERE and not to mentiont the fact that they have opening and closing times (the cash indexes anyway) so that means that any trader anywhere in the world is seeing the exact same price and chart and this, to me anyway, goes a long way to gauging market sentiment and I donât believe that this is possible in FOREX given that there are as many different brokers in as many different timezones with as many different daily opening and closing prices and that, to me anyway, is a HUGE issue (especially if youâre trading ânakedâ i.e. using price action or candlesticks or chart patterns to trade). I know there are quite a few people that will disagree with me on this but âit is what it isâ and, again, is but one (and a very IMPORTANT one) reason for my favouring equities and commodities vs. FOREX trading (and hence my forums which I see you have joined. Thanks. If nothing else it pushes the rather tiny membership number up a bit)!!! LOL!!!
All things being equal (which, as Iâve noted above, and as you have seen for yourself already, is not the case) and as you will have noted on my forumsL I donât advocate trading any timeframe shorter that the 1 hour timeframe (and youâll not that almost 99% of the time my trades are based on the 4 hour and longer timeframes). Then again: Iâm a long term (sometimes VERY L-O-N-G term) trader and not a scalper or âshootingâ for 15 or 20 points (or pips) per trade which, for some reason or the other, seems to be the ânormâ around here (at least for most when they start trading because they somehow from somewhere got the notion, probably from all the advertising âbunkâ, that they should be trading and making money every second of every day). In my opinion (based only on my personal experience) this simply leads to you EVENTUALLY (albeit slowly although in cases is can also be very quickly) âbleedingâ your account âdryâ. Put it this way: Iâve only ever lost money on the short(er) timeframes. Yes: it could very well be the trading systems and trading methodology that I use or it could be than Iâm an inept trader on the shorter timeframes (or both really). So if youâre asking ME which timeframe is âbestâ: my answer is that any timeframe from 1 hour and longer is âbestâ (and the longer the timeframe the better). The fact of the matter is that almost all (and quite possibly all) indicators are more reliable and give stronger signals on the longer timeframes (if youâre using trading systems that rely on indicators of course that is and which is what most of my trading systems are based on anyway). Itâs just a fact that there is market ânoiseâ on the shorter timeframes and this market ânoiseâ is one of the main reasons why trades get stopped out so often (especially in the case of a new trader). And what a lot of people for some reason or the other seem to disregard is the importance of the DAILY CLOSING PRICE of an instrument (and this is PARTICULARLY true in the case of equities and commodities trading i.e. how important is in in FOREX trading is debateable). One thing there seems to be much disagreement on, ONLY in the FOREX âlandâ, is which is the âcorrectâ or âbestâ daily closing price to use when, for example, calculating pivot levels for the next trading day. Some say (and I personally believe this to be true) is to use the daily closing price at 17h00 in New York (which is when the banks close or âsettleâ). It just so happens that is in (within and hour depending on whether DST is in effect or not) Deltastockâs daily charts close. Other say to use the daily closing price of midnight GMT (which IBFXâs theory). But here gain weâre now back to this thing of different brokers in different timezones all closing the daily charts at different times!!! And once again: this is not something that you have to worry about with equities and commodities i.e. the opeing and closing times (and prices) are identical nobody where you look or where in the world you just happen to be trading!!! And this again is the reason why ONE MetaTrader EA, for example, may be profitable at ONE broker while losing money at another. As a matter of fact: last year (or maybe the year before) three of us were doing some tests. EVEN MORE frightening: the three of us (me in South Africa, another in Finland, and another in Italy) using the SAME broker (demo accounts) using the SAME EA, on the SAME timeframes, got three different results when testing the EA with MetaTraderâs Strategy Tester (it had something to do with the âmodelling qualityâ or whatever the hell itâs called). And as if THATâS not bad enough: a week later we did exactly the same tests but using the same data period and got STILL DIFFERENT results from our original (although different) results a week later!!! âScary stuffâ let me tell you!!! And this again is one of the reasons why I cannot understand why everybody is so âhell bentâ on trading with MetaTrader. They just done a damn fine job of marketing is all and, unfortunatey, really do have market share!!!
And if you REALLY want to get frightened just take a look at this link:
Click on the âFCM, FDM, & Broker Dealersâ tab and take a look at the list of âFeaturesâ. The one that âkillsâ me is this âfeatureâ: âConfigure the platform for your firmâs specific business model with over 150 system rulesâ. You can just âbet your bottom dollarâ that those âover 150 system rulesâ are NOT customisable in the traderâs favour!!! Itâs actually quite a nice trading platform really and if I PERSONALLY had to make the choice between it and MetaTrader my choice would most certainly NOT be MetaTrader!!! Unfortunately: the only brokers that I know of or have (bitter) experience with that offer that platform are KNOW âbucket shop brokersâ (GCI Trading and AVAFX to name but two). But that trading platform is growing in popularity slowly but surely and theyâve done a WHOLE lot of work on it in the past year or so and I wish them well to be honest). And let me tell you that their are the same âtoolsâ available to brokers offering MetaTrader too!!! There is one piece of software that MetaQuotes TO THIS DAY denies exists and whenever and as far as possible: any references to the said software they have deleted and when this has on occasion been queried they simply have never responded. From what I gather this piece of software allows the broker to control the execution speed of trades, ENSURE a MINIMUM slippage level, and can even be set to shut the platform down (disconnect) at various times (and you can be sure that if a broker is using this piece of software those times would probably be set at or around the time of news data releases)!!! If Iâm not mistaken this piece of software was ineed dicussed somewhere on one of these very forums some years back and I know there are one or two threads about it on Forex Factoryâs forums too (if theyâve not been deleted yet that is).
So there you have some of the âlow downâ (as if itâs not difficult enough when beginning to trade and learn and be profitable WITHOUT having to âcontendâ with a particular broker)!!! And unfortunately: itâs these types of brokers that give this business such a bad reputation.
WOW!!! Thatâs âtaken it out of meâ now i.e. I think I need to go back to bed!!! LOL!!!
Any more questions: feel free to ask.
Regards,
Dale.
Hi Dale,
Thanks for the very detailed explanation. No wonder, when I tried comparing between charts at different time, I noticed different behaviors and thus gave me even more confusion. Even more surprising, after I opened up the link you gave me, now I need to do even more homework before I tried my hands on the real trading. So first thing first, I must graduate from a demo version
Anyway, Iâm now trying 5 different demo version Delta, MRG Trader (The chart is really weird since itâs different from the others and only in this demo version that I can actually win 
), Insta Trader, AvaFX, and FX Clearing. I will try longer time frame for trade. I just realize when you told me about the term ânoiseâ, no wonder Iâm now down 20% on my demo. I keep trading and just follow the signals but probably 70% of the time Iâm following the wrong direction.
Another question pop up in mind, How should one set the Stop Loss and Take Profit. At the moment, I set it up at 2000 stop loss and 200 take profit. Say I buy at 1 lot, that means, around 200 usd profit and 2000 usd loss if the Stop Loss indicator is hit. What would be the better set up?
Ok, another week of trial with this demo and letâs see If I can turn things around.
Hey bigz.
Once again: only a pleasure to try and help.
Choosing a (reliable and honest broker) is of course all important. While having a BAD broker is no excuse for not being profitable it most certainly doensât help things either and this is particulary true when trading the lower timeframes. If a broker of ill repute is going to manipulate price etc. itâs a whole lot harder for them to manipulate price on the four hour and daily (and longer) timeframes than on the one hour timeframes and shorter. Unfortunately this is something that you donât find out until you have a live account with a broker (the demo accounts normally work perfectly)!!! Obviously Iâd recommend Deltastock to you (but having said that: download Delta Trading which I KNOW you probably will not like at first but Iâm willing to help you until you DO like it and I promise you that you wonât be sorry i.e. itâs in a different league from MetaTrader altogether). But if you INSIST on trading with MetaTrader well, then, youâve loads of options I guess (including Deltastock). MRG and FX Clearing Iâve never heard of. Insta Trader I seem to have heard of and, of course, AVAFX. But do yourself a favour and look at the âRate My Brokerâ Forums on BabyPips and also go and take a look at the broker reviews on Forex Peace Army (Free Forex Trading Community With Forex Signals And Broker Reviews) before making any decision on a broker (Forex Peace Army seems to have become the âde facto standardâ when it comes to broker reviews and, so far as I can tell, has the LEAST amount of brokers âcreatingâ members to either post about how âtheirâ broker is or slating the competition although it does happen from time to time unfortunately). Just be careful with demo accounts too i.e. there are very VERY few brokers where the demo accounts operate in exactly the same way as the live accounts. Although the charts may LOOK the same your order execution may NOT be quite as âsmoothâ on a live account with the same broker. But you need to do your research carefully. Unfortunately EVEN on Forex Peace Army there are legitimate reviews and âbullsh*tâ reviews but after a while it becomes easy to see whatâs ârealâ and whatâs not ârealâ i.e. when reading the reviews youâll quickly see for each broker a sort of âcommong threadâ emerging e.g. âbroker will not close profitable positions until theyâve turned to lossesâ. Thatâs just one example but if itâs a bad broker youâll eventually see this problem being mentioned a few times and then youâll know that thatâs a âlegitimateâ issue with that particular broker. Unfortunately the âstarâ ratings donât mean too much e.g. one broker may have a five star rating but based on only two reviews whereas another may have a three star rating but based on two hundred reviews (obviously the three start rated broker would be the better âbetâ)!!!
If I may ask: where (in the world) are you as that may (or may not) limit you as to where (which broker) you open a live account with???
You still have not told me or showed me your trading system or methdology (where are these signals that you talk about coming from)??? Iâll say this though: risking 2 000 (whether it be dollars, points, or pips) to possibly make 200 (again whether it be dollars, points, or pips) is most definitely no way to trade. For the placement of stops take a look at this link (I seem to be posting this link somwhere just about every second day of late for some odd reason): A Logical Method Of Stop Placement. Maybe that will help Iâm not saying that risking more than you stand to make on a trade is wrong but not on THAT scale anyway!!! LOL!!! But then and because of the way that I trade I donât take all these âfancyâ ratios and statistics into account i.e. as long as my capital is growing slowly but steadily I donât realy care about the statistics. On the other hand: even if youâre settings a stop loss thatâs 10 000 pips away from your entry price: the most important rule to NOT be broken in this business is risk / money managment. In other words: even if your stop loss is 10 000 pips away from your entry price it doesnât matter just as long as the potential loss that will be realised if that stop is hit does not exceed 2% (any even better less than 2%) of your account balance (although I have to say that thereâs something wrong with a system that would have you place a stop 2 000 pips away to make only 200 pips even IF the potential loss is 2% of your capital or less i.e. that sound more like playing a âguessing gameâ than a trading system and no offense is meant by that either). Have you at least taken a look at the trading systems on my forums??? Theyâre really not ârocket scienceâ but they have been paper-traded using YEARS of data and they were developed by some of âthe greatest minds in the businessâ. Iâm not trying to âadvertiseâ here or âsolicitâ (well I guess in everything I do I do this in one way or another to be honest) but I am just curious as to why a new trader who is still learning would decide to âgo it their own wayâ instead of trading tried and tested trading systems??? Iâm really am just curious i.e. itâs something that some of us âold timersâ (both literally and figuratively speaking) on BabyPips always wonder about (but I donât think any of us has asked as directly as this).
Anyway: whichever way you go I and other will always be here to help as best we can.
Regards,
Dale.
I do think Mr Williamâs indicators are pretty awesome, but still, when it comes to ranging periods, you need something extra.