Beginner's Disaster!

Hi Folks

Just a quick post to tell y’all about today’s events. For a couple of reasons (wife and youngest daughter both unwell) I was off work today. In between my role as Florence Nightingale I managed to spend some time trading.

No big wins to go with the large Euro Dollar today but I scalped my way to raising my account to $137.71, almost $4
(+ 40 pips) up on the close of last week. So I suppose you could say that all in all it was a successful day right?

Well funny enough, it doesn’t feel like a successful day and I’ll tell you why. I think because of today I have discovered that I DON’T LIKE scalping. I know it worked for me today, but strangely, just now, I feel physically nervous and uncomfortable.

Maybe I just wasn’t picking good scalping set ups as I know people are very successful with scalping strategies but I don’t think it suits me. I reckon though you could say it HAS BEEN a successful day as not only have I made some money but I’ve discovered what DOESN’T suit me, which sometimes can be just as valuable as discovering what DOES suit me.

I just don’t like the feeling scalping creates. It’s just, again, my personal feelings.

HoG

There is a large atricle I would like to post but it will have to wait til I have time later on tonight. In the mean time I would like you all to watch this video. (I hope the link works).

It’s a video of Will Smith and it is more or less an inspirational clip. Many of you may have already seen it. But it’s worth looking at again and taking the words to heart. It does have a connection to the larger article I will post later tonight. But for now, listen and enjoy.

[video=youtube_share;pfWGoLj1JCM]http://youtu.be/pfWGoLj1JCM[/video]

I’ll also explain later why I have give THIS article the title I did. It’s not as drastic as it sounds, but it could have been and it should stand as a constant reminder to ALL newbies that the job of learning is NEVER EVER done

HoG

Sorry if this has nothing to do with your thread but I found this video, although is rather old, it is a glance of how “big guys” trades… hope is not a repost in this forum…

Ever since I started this thread I’ve tried my hardest to be as honest as possible with the things I’ve thought, with the things I’ve done and the trades I’ve made. But there is a problem with honesty. Because as well as telling everyone who will listen about the successes you’ve had, in the spirit of honesty, you then have to be prepared to hold your hand up when you also make a royal backside of things.

Now this may just turn into the ramblings of some-one licking their wounds from a bad time with the FX market, I don’t know. But what I DO know, is that it ain’t going to be short and I hope other newbies really give it some thought before they start their journey, because this HAS happened to me and illustrates to me, how quickly we can forget our new found “Discipline”.

So here we go:

I started this week with a balance of APPROX $133. I’ve steadily grown this back up from a low of sub $50 trading 1 lot at a time, through a micro account. And over the last few weeks of steady growth, I’ve talked a good game of ‘new found discipline’, ‘better entry points’ etc etc.

But at the start of this week, since my balance was now over $130, I decided to up the ante a little and start trading 2 lots at a time. Y’know, speed things up a bit. Now at first, I was very nervous about trading this increased lot size. Even though, relatively speaking, we’re only talking very small amounts of money, it was nevertheless REAL money, MY money and unchartered territory as far as I was concerned.

In fact, I was so nervous, that the first time I traded this new increased lot size, I closed the trade for 1.3 pips profit. But hey, isn’t this great? Now we’re getting 20 cents a pip instead of 10 cents. And that’s when all the rules just went straight out the window, one in quick succession after the other.

I was only in trades for 5 or so pips now, because in reality, that was 10 pips the way I used to trade with only 1 lot. But since I was only in a trade for such a small amount of pips, why bother with a stop loss? And now, with this scalping mentality, why don’t we up the ante again and trade 3 lots? After all, it’s working a treat?

Anybody starting to cringe yet ??

To cut what could be a very very long story short, by Tuesday night I had increased my balance to $151. A fantastic success I’m sure you’ll all agree. But now, after only two days, I’m trading 4 lots instead of my usual 1, and now i’m not even using stop losses at all. All in 2 days flushed with success.

So then on Tuesday night, I decided to SELL the Euro Dollar at 1-3231 ish. No stop loss needed, but thankfully, for some unknown reason, I only traded 1 lot. So for the benefit of those of you who have been living under a rock in the last two days, or like me, living behind the sofa peeking out every now and again at the computer screen, let me just tell you that when I eventually did find the inner strength to cut the trade, my balance was back down to $125.77.

I’m sure I don’t need to tell a lot of the experienced traders out there how I feel right now, because I’m sure that most people will probably have felt something similar at some point in their trading career. But for the the newbies, for the benefit of the as yet unbruised, it’s crushing. Psychologically it hurts, the disappointment hurts. NOT the loss as much as the MANNER of the loss.

Now I know you could say that on the bright side I’m still solvent, still here, still in the game and at the end of the day I’ve learned another good lesson. But to be honest, I’m now questioning what it is I think I HAVE learned during my whole short trading adventure.

I’ve learned how to hit buttons, I’ve learned what some indicators are and why they do what it is they are supposed to do. But do I honestly feel that I’ve learned anything more than just a fancier way to gamble? No, I don’t.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I think FX is just gambling. Because I DO believe that done properly, FX can provide a good living. But have I learned to do it properly? NO.

It’s all very well reading through things like the school of pipsology, or similar education articles, and reading what indicators are and what they do. But how, as newbies, do you REALLY learn to trade them? And equally as important, how as a newbie, do you learn to curb that enthusiasm and learn when NOT to trade?

Again, it could be argued that the only mistake was not using a tight stop loss which would have cancelled the trade with only a small loss. But even then, I would still have been sitting believing I knew what I clearly don’t know.

So my quest now is rather simple. Education. I intend to stop trading for a while in search of education. Probably to do the things I SHOULD have done before I started trading. Is my ego bruised? YES. Am I feeling sorry for myself? YES. But am I smart enough to realise that this ain’t gonna happen for real if I don’t get educated about it. YES, I am.

I found the video I posted above the other day while mucking around on different sites. I’m glad I found it because it’s helped keep me positive.

I will keep in contact with this thread, and Nikitafx’s thread ( which I’m enjoying reading ) while I’m not trading. If I find a piece of “Education” which I truly find valuable, I’ll post it here., hopefully for the benefit of other newbies.

I started to keep a record of session highs/lows, and I intend to keep doing that. It HAS helped, even though I was undisciplined enough to ignore it.

Also, if I do make any small forays into the market I’ll let you know. But largely, for now, it’s time to do what I hate doing most. It’s time to READ !! It’s time to get skilled, learn what it is I need to know, learn what it is that affects the currency markets and learn how to stop feeling so sorry for myself just after I’ve had my butt kicked !!

So again for the benefit of other newbies, my first port of call is the ‘Currency Trading For Dummies’ book that has been gathering dust in my cupboard since the day I bought it. Will it turn out to be worth reading or a load of smelly stuff? I’ll let you know. But it’s a start, and we all have to do that somewhere.

So, as a last little piece of inspiration for now, (as the violins strike up) I’ll leave you with 4 quotes. 3 of them come from Mr Will Smith in the above video, and the last one (and my personal favourite) has the author’s title at the end. Talk soon folks

HoG

"There’s no easy way around it. No matter how talented you are, your talent is going to fail you if you are not skilled, if you don’t study, or you don’t work really hard and dedicate yourself to be being better every single day "
Will Smith

"There’s no reason for plan B, because it distracts from plan A"
Will Smith

"Don’t EVER let someone tell you that you CAN’T do something…If you’ve got a dream, you’ve got to protect it. If people can’t do something themselves, they’ll want to tell you that YOU can’t do it. If you want something, go get it. Period !!"
Will Smith

"As long as the number of times you fall on your arse is equal to the number of times you get back up, you’re doing OK."
MY GRANDMOTHER

Sorry for that loss but my advice is DO NOT stop trading, we all here have seen your progress. Go back to trade one microlot, this time use a sound [B]Money Management[/B] strategy, use top-down analysis… that last trade was risky since price was due to a retracement and was in the bottom of the channel…, S/R is good but rely mainly on PA

Dear Mr Golf, I understand your frustration but I would like to point out something that seems obvious to me… your trading wasn’t your mistake it was all in the psychology department. My favorite golfer of all time is Tom Watson and when he rolled that putt 6 foot past the hole and had to make it to win the OPEN at 63 did you think he was going to make or miss… and when he missed how much would of you wagered on him losing the playoff, I myself would have bet everything I had on him failing after missing the putt. As you get to be an older golfer you remember all the times you missed way more than you made and while you missed the putt it was because you let other stuff get in the way. IMHO reading isn’t going to improve your mental error but learning from it at sticking to you system will.

Shanking one off into the heather happens to all of us.

BUT, you showed a lot of depth and some great self control by:

  1. cutting your loss
  2. recognizing your errors
  3. taking your medicine with a good attitude

Now, look at the bright side, (and there is one)

Your loss was only $8 from the beginning weekly balance of $133. Statistically it is a bit over the 2% risk margin in terms of loss, but you didn’t let it jeopardize your capital to the point your last losses did.

Good job.

Now, time for a short memory. Remember the lesson, but don’t mentally punish yourself to the point that it gets hard to open a trade again.

Your lapse in judgement shouldn’t cloud the fact that you’ve tripled your account from a bad situation.

Head to the next tee box, tee it high, and let it fly.

Good afternoon HoG!

How I see it: Be thankful for the experience! Didn’t cost much! Did you learn something for 8 bucks of virtual money? Great! :slight_smile:

This is a marathon. We will learn every day. There is no “Now I know it all and make 1 trillion in no time with sticking to the rules”. Oh yes, there are rules and my bots also have rules and trade. But letz face it: We all like to experiment! That might lead to loss in the short run but likely much more profit in the long run! :wink:

Plus then I do not believe in most quotes, however wise they may seem. Most quotes are cliches, putting realities aside. As long as you have luck and good trades it is easy to dream of you can do everything. Reality however is that most of the time this leads to overconfidence. Be thankful you had a loss! Puts you back on your feet! With more experience! More to come! I am not saying you can not do what you want. But most people don’t like to put the effort in and frankly, you are doing this as side job. What do you expect? You are not even a full time trader and there are enough full time traders around the world who make loss. If you wanna be excellent in something, you must put in excellent efforts. I do not mean overtrading but learning. Better look for [U]consistency[/U] and that seems to be okay so far. Losses are part of the game. Experiments or not.

Just one advice for scalping: if you scalp, even then put in a stop loss every time. Just a little farther away. As emergency stop loss if your friendly broker cuts the connection or your buddy gave you the fancy new game with a cuddling worm in it or something like that. :wink:

Oh no, another one: Don’t look for the money once your trade is filled. Look for the pips!

Well, I made some profitable pips, but not many. Satisfied anyways. Protection comes before risk. My bots are rather lazy right now. That means no setups last week. No setups means it avoids losses. :slight_smile:

I started now with the study of other pairs. usdjpy and audusd. Audusd is another pair I watched since a couple of months, but usdjpy is new. Nice spikes there on the intraday charts.

You and everybody have a great weekend!

LOL Yunny1… your a number of decades out of date! Its kind of how its done these days in as much as with enough leverage you can tweak the folks into either buying or selling a cross, were talking interbank of course, but it happens way faster! :53:

This is the one HOG… forget all the other aspirational BS! Your Grandmother knew a thing or two… with age comes wisdom. The instant gratification age is apt to forget this! Three years of hard slog and you’ll look back and understand where you went wrong. What seperates the winners from the losers? I’ll gladly defer to your Grandmother.

Hey guys I’ve been creepin on this thread for a few days now and I gotta complement HoG on his insight. Man buddy you have a knack for writing and your ability to express your thought process and feelings is uncanny.

And your scalping success must be applauded. However, if you don’t feel comfortable scalping, try some longer term trades, holding trades for 24 hours +. Make you stops a bit wider than normal, lower your lot size to less than 1 (if that’s even possible with your trading platform, it is with Oanda) and give it a go. Also I trade a little different than most. You could try a new technique with a demo account. I trade multiple currencies against each other. I guess you could call it hedging but who knows what you want to call it. For instance, if I am pro-USD I will SELL say 4 lots EUR/USD. At the same time, just in case the markets turn “risk off”, I will BUY one lot of GBP/USD, one lot AUD/USD, and maybe a little NZD/USD. I also might long USD/CHF if I can get in at a level I feel comfortable with. As time marches on, I add to my winners and unwind from my losers. Eventually, no matter which way the market moves (either pro or anti USD), my winning trades should outweigh my losers. This strategy works wonders in trends and sucks in ranging markets. However, it fits my personality and it allows me to relax, believing (sometimes falsely) that all my bases are covered.

This type of trading provides several things: 1. It allows me to sleep at night. 2. The odds are with me (at least one of these trades will work out nicely, but usually more than one will be in the green) 3. It provides a small amount of insurance. You won’t make 300% a month like when you went from $50 to $150, but if you catch some moves and add to your winners at correct levels, you can make some nice percentage gains.

Pitfalls: 1. Won’t work well for day trading, unless you are lightning quick and the markets are MOVING! 2. Sacrificing profit for insurance. If you feel you are correct about being pro-USD then why go anti-USD amirite?!?! 3. Paying for more spreads (but since I’m going for hundreds of pip gains I really don’t care about a 1.5 pip spread) There is much more but I don’t want to bore anybody.

Point is, if you are uncomfortable scalping, might as well try other methods other than scalping in a demo account. Just wanted to mention my method and demonstrate how there are many ways to make a little cash in this addicting environment.

Actually first time I’ve seen it, but also gives a number of insights - that the big guys just decide to push the prices around, they have direct info on what other banks are doing, and the two commercial outfits - Barclays and Chemical bank profited where the pure speculation out-fit did not.

Hi jsteven3

Nice to see you here. I have no doubt your system works well for you, but unfortunately, for me at my stage in the adventure ( never really know what to call it, adventure, business, game …) it may be a little complicated. I may be better sticking to plain and simple for now, get more adventurous as the experience grows.

Scalping is not a thing I am really comfortable with. For one thing I see it as a thing best done during London / New York seesion when things are moving better. That rules me out straight away as I’m at work during this time. Also seems a little fast and furious for a golf lover. I like things nice and easy. That said, 24 Hrs + frustrates me. Probably see myself more as an in betweener.

Anyway, tentatively dipping my toe back in the water this week. + 10 pips so far. I see Tuesday as a day to go long Euro Dollar as I don’t think there’s too much in the way of big news due out that might frighten the planet tomorrow so why wouldn’t there be a bit of ‘risk on’ going around ?

However, i’ll wait til the morning to see what Asia did and make my decision then.

The weekend gave me plenty of time to think about last week’s loss. You’re all correct when you say you can’t stop trading because of a bad trade. It’s like a golfer quiting golf because of one bad shot or a carpenter quiting carpentry because he hit his thumb with the hammer.

Truth be told, right from the start I think most people under-estimate the mental battle involved in FX trading. It’s possibly one of the reasons there is such a high reported failure rate.

So it’s back to battle, slowly. At $126 exactly right now.

Thanks again to all for the encouragement.

Talk Soon

HoG

Been there, done that. Yes, every trader goes through the “D’uh” phase but remember, you can learn from your experience and make a call on whether to give up or get educated and learn what it’s all about. It’s not easy for any newbie to learn about Fx markets, with hundreds of EA’s sending out sales promos with promises on how they can make quick money overnight.
Yeah, usually these promises are not worth what they’re printed on. Anyway, the way to go ahead is to get educated and start with a micro account.

Actually, as I tell friends and family how much I enjoy trading currency and wish to eventually do it full time, it’s amazing that most people obsess with it being a form of gambling, huge failure rating etc. A very close friend told me that his brother in-law tried it, and lost a decent amount of money. My friend felt this should support his point of view, but he did not mention this fellows risk management approach etc. It is difficult, and for the new fx trader there are many obstacles to overcome.

I see more to the downside after a week of ups. Take a look at where PA bounced off resistance at 28/29 September. Personally, I’m short from 1.3655.

Agreed - I have Resistance marked on my chart at around 1.3693, which coincides with the 200ema on the 240 (which is down) and is not far below the Monthly Pivot. I would have shorted the Euro yesterday on the basis of all that had it not been a Bank Holiday following NFP, and will maybe look for a Short this evening as an end of day trade, depending on how today’s bar closes. Either way, I am certainly more short than long, am only looking for Shorts.

ST

I took a couple of shorts at 1.3670 and 1.3656, already locked in some profits… I am just waiting for the Slovakian Parlament decision on EFSF, that will move the market 100-200 pips either way.

Hi All

Didn’t take any trade this morning. To be honest I didn’t see too much that filled me with any conviction in any direction so just left it alone. The way I see it, that was the best trade for me under those circumstances

Bottom line is just about ANYTHING we do involves some kind of gamble. Crossing the road is a gamble. Best you can do is look both ways and chose what you decide is the best time to cross.

Buying a house is a gamble. How many people bought houses when the property market was booming and now see those same homes worth less now than what they paid for them?

Is FX a gamble? Sure, it involves risk just as any investment involves risk.

I once read an article on a web site, written by a female FX trader, which told the world she started trading shares, then CFD’s, then she built a rocket ship, then she discovered the true meaning of life, single handedly discovered quantum physics and only THEN, ONLY THEN, did she graduate up to FX. Well to me that’s just crap !!

I think a great number of people could successfully trade FX, IF they seek out the proper education and show the proper self control. As for obstacles to be overcame, you probably will find that our own human emotions are right up there with the hardest of obstacles that we have to overcome.

Simplest way of stopping them from telling you how impossible trading FX is, is very simply just don’t tell them in the first place. I understand your enthusiasm. I love doing this, I bore my wife to death with it. It’s a rollercoaster, no doubt. But when I find myself too full of entusiasm with no-one to enthuse to, I come here, because I know that every one here IS here because they love trading. No-one’s forced them to do it, they do it because they want to.

That’s the reason these forums exist. To let like minded souls talk like minded stuff. So whatever you want to talk about concerning FX, just write it here. You want find any crticism, just willing contributors ready to answer.

That’s my sermon done. Off to wait for Slovaks. I think a cup of tea is in order first !!