Calculating Pip Moves and Margin - Please help?

Hi all,

I’ve reviewed the material here at babypips and even read posts on the internet about this topic, but no one seems to lay out the details of an entire trade transaction of used margin, usable margin, pip move prior to account clean-out, etc, in such a way that I can follow. :frowning:

I have written up a scenario below and have attempted to provide a complete analysis of an account size, a EUR/USD trade example, margin requirements, used margin, what would it take for me to lose all my money, etc. Can someone take a look at my logic and calculations and let me know if I’m on the right track? THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :smiley:

For simplicity purposes, I’m going to ignore spread costs.

Let’s say I open a Forex account that trades standard lots (1 lot = 100,000 units), with a leverage ratio of 50:1 (aka 2% margin requirement).

I have $10,000 in my broker account.

I decide to trade the EUR/USD currency pair @ 1.3500.

This means that 1 EUR can purchase 1.3500 USD (EUR is worth more than the USD).

I expect the EUR to increase in value compared to the USD, so I would be buying the EUR, hoping that the rate will go above 1.3500.

To trade one standard lot, I would be buying 100,000 units of EUR. To pay for it, I will be using USD. At the current rate of 1.3500, the cost would be $135,000 USD.

Since my broker has a 2% margin requirement, I will need to fork up $2700 USD for this one standard lot.

After this transaction, I will now control 100,000 units of EUR with only $2700.

My used margin will be $2700 and my usable margin will be ($10,000 - $2700) = $6300.

If the trade goes in my favor, then great.

However, if the trade goes against me, then I have the following questions:

  1. How many pips of movement in the currency rate, will it take before my used margin of $2700 will be wiped out.

  2. Also, how many pips of movement in the currency rate, will it take before my usaable margin of $6300 is also wiped out?

I’m actually unsure how to calculate the above, but here is my attempt.

First, in the extreme case, if my leverage ratio were 1:1, I would have had to fork out $135,000 of my own USD to take this trade.

If the currency rate then dropped from 1.3500 to 1.3000 (a 3.7% drop), then that simply equates to a 3.7% loss on my $135,000, or in other words, I would have lost (3.7% x $135,000) = $5000.

This makes sense, because a drop from 1.3500 - 1.3000 = 500 pips, where the cost per pip for a EUR/USD currency pair is $10/pip; i.e. $5000.

Now, this is if my leverage ratio were 1:1.

However, my broker is nice enough to give me a 50:1 leverage ratio. At this leverage ratio, if the currency rate dropped from 1.3500 to 1.3000 (which is a 3.7% drop), then the effect that it will have on me is not the full $5000 of loss, but a whopping 50 times that, or ($5000 * 50) = $250000.

Of course, this is something I cannot sustain with my meager account size.

Thus, the pip movement that will clean out my used margin of $2700 must be much smaller than 500 pips.

To calculate the pip movement that will clean out my used margin of $2700, I think I have to do this:

($2700 / 50) = $54

This $54 is a loss that I would typically sustain if I traded with a leverage ratio of 1:1. In that case, $135,000 - $54 = $134,946.

That is, if the currency rate dropped from 1.3500 to 1.34946 (which is about 5 to 6 pips), I can pretty much say bye bye to my used margin $2700.

Then, I will have $6300 of usable margin left to try to save my neck.

Following the same logic:

($6300 / 50) = $126

Again, this is a loss that I would typically sustain if I traded with a leverage ratio of 1:1. In that case, $135,000 - $126 = $134874.

That is, if the currency rate dropped further from 1.34946 to 1.34874 (which is about 7 pips), I can pretty much say bye bye to my remaining usable margin of $6300.

Thus, tallying up the total pip movement, if the currency rate drops a mere 12 or 13 pips against me, then my account of $10,000 would be cleaned out.

Somehow, the above analysis seems awfully wrong, since a 12 pip move seems awfully small to clean out a $10,000 account.

Can someone let me know if my logic and calculations are correct and if not, where did I fumble?

Thanks for your help guys and gals!

Hello, Kenneth

You were doing great for the first half of your post. Then, you got yourself into a bit of a tangle. Let’s see if we can untangle this thing.

Regarding your first question, you can’t wipe out the $2,700 margin which your broker has set aside FOR HIS PROTECTION. That’s the whole idea of margin — you can blow YOUR money, but not your broker’s money. That’s why he wants that $2,700 cushion between your folly and total wipe-out.

Question 2 is simple. In any pair having the USD as the cross-currency, such as your EUR/USD example, one pip of price movement produces a profit or loss of $10 per standard lot. So, in your example, 630 pips AGAINST you would produce a LOSS of $6,300.

Thanks for the help Clint! :slight_smile:

So it seems that the initial margin $2700 that I’ll need to put up for that trade (or whatever the margin requirement is for any trade) is simply something money I hand over to my broker so he can initiate the trade, where no part of the $2700 is affected, if the currency rate moves up or down thereafter?

That is, just so I’m understanding this correctly, if, right after I place the trade, the currency rate drops from 1.3500 to 1.3499 (dropped by 1 pip), does that immediately decrease my usable margin of $6300 down to $6290? :confused:

Thanks!

Yup.

That’s precisely what happens.

628 more of those, and BAM. Margin call.

By the way, Kenneth…

…your $2,700 margin will be released back to you, when your trade is closed, whether it’s closed for a profit or a loss.


By the way, Jay…

…congratulations on the FX-Man thing. You’re now officially one of the people who post too damn much stuff on this forum!

Thanks Master Tang! :smiley:

And if I’m still on the right track, let’s say after placing the trade:

Scenario A:

  1. The currency rate stays the same and I exit the trade

Without considering the spread cost, will the broker then completely return my $2700, thus increasing my usable margin back to $2700 + $6300 = $10,000?

Scenario B:

  1. The currency rate increases by 1 pip and I exit the trade

Without considering the spread cost, I’m figuring I will now have a profit of $10. However, will the broker then completely return my $2700, thus increasing my usable margin to $10 + $2700 + $6300 = $10,010?

Scenario C:

  1. The currency rate decreases by 1 pip and I exit the trade

Without considering the spread cost, I’m figuring I will now have a loss of $10. However, will the broker then completely return my $2700, thus making my usable margin to $6300 - $10 + $2700 = $9,990? :frowning:

Last Scenario D:

  1. The currency rate decreases by 630 pips and I get a margin call

Without considering the spread cost, my broker will want me to add more funds if I want to continue trading, however, IF I don’t want to trade anymore and just want to quit, then will the broker completely return my $2700 (or am I just dreaming?) :confused:

THANKS! :smiley:

Woops, thanks Clint. You read my mind :smiley:

There IS an exception to this situation.

That would be, you had a trade open over the weekend and price gapped largely, and it was against you.

Since your broker is not open to automatically close the trade, you could theoretically wind up with a negative balance.

So instead of getting your $2700 back, if the trade went badly, it could have possibly blown through that amount, and you wind up owing your broker the difference.

Rare, yes.

But an issue that could occur.

And thanks Clint:D

Nuttin’ like being rewarded for being a chatty Cathy!!!

congrats Master Tang on your new status. Also thanks to you and Clint and userkenneth for fully explaining the 2% margin requirement. I am certain many will benefit from it.