I’m looking at getting into forex full time. I checked a couple of accounts on different websites. They have 200:1 leverage. A mini account investment is 250$ and i get a leverage of 50000$ . With this can i look at making a profit of arnd 50 -100$ a day.
I was wondering if i should quit my job and get into to full time.
I’m not sure what you mean? You mean you can control 50,000 $ worth of a currency pair…I think…can you make $ 50 a day?..easy…should you leave your job for $ 50 - $ 100 dollars a day?..? …I would not leave my decently salaried job for that amount…
No, with a $250 account,whatever the leverage be, you will not make $50/day consistently.
Never. You may just end up losing your 250 bucks.
An amount of merely $250 is not enough to do anything.
Unless you want to go with Oanda and trade a micro account for 10 cents/pip.
With the trading rule of risking only 2% of your total account in any one trade, that means you can risk only a maximum of $5.
So microlot trading is the only way to go.
It is great for training after finishing with a demo.
But to make real money you need to start with a much higher deposit, at least $1000, preferably $5000.
Tymen and Punjabi. With all due respect you are both very wrong. I started a micro account with $100, built it up slowly to a few hundred now a couple K and easily make +$50 a day. I trade anywhere from between 1-5 dollars a pip per one trade. (depending on how probably I think a win is) So, making +$50 bucks is not hard at all. Losing -$50 isn’t hard either, but + happens with much more regularlity and my account can handle my losses.
I am however using my leverage. I am no obeying the 1-3% rule. But, I do not recommend this for someone new.
As said in babypips, once you have some experience you can better use the double edged sword that is leverage.
I still use money managment & risk management. If I lose a certain amount of pips I stop trading.
Sheetal, instead of worrying about what you can make a day in $, think in pips. Because, even if you can only ever make +20 pips a day consistently, you can keep compounding your account. What started a few cents a pip can easily start to become $1 dollar a pip & mabye eventually $100 dollars a pip, if you master the delicate art of trading.
Focus your mind on the goal of learning to be a very skilled trader, the money will happen as a bi product.
If you think about money you will engage the part of your brain that daydreams about being rich or just what you would do with some extra money, AND the fear of losing money. So, your mind will be on money and not on trading.
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Tymen I know from first hand experience that what you said is simply not true. My very first account was started with $100 and now is almost 3k. That was just by slowly compounding. AND I almost wrecked it after my first three weeks. I had it down to $11 one week and two weeks after that had it up to $300. Then I learned my biggest lesson, of not letting my losers run.
Also, I think it is AWFUL ADVICE to tell any noobie that their first account should be between 1K-5K. You CAN, make decent money and learn valuable lessons from live micro accounts. (by decent I don’t mean being rich or making a million, I mean part time job money)
The only people that should start 1K- 5K accounts for their first ones are people who laugh at losing 1-5K.
With a $1000 account, risking 2% would only be $20 per trade – small risk of losing $1000 at that rate, and presumably if it were your first account you would risk even less.
“My very first account was started with $100 and now is almost 3k. That was just by slowly compounding.”
I don’t know if I’d call $11 to $300 in two weeks “slowly compounding” 
Ok, you got me there. It wasn’t “slowly,” compounding at that point. After I almost blew the account I sat out of trading for a week to get my mind right.
When I started again, I compounded with every winning trade. I saw a big downtrend and kept getting in at retraces as it went down. Once I got to $300 I dialed back down a bit.
So, it wasn’t revenge trading, it was more like WTF my accounts almost blown so I might as well be agressive and try to rebuild it. If I lost it, it was only $100 and starting the account all over wouldn’t make me punch holes in the wall.
Part of it was luck, now that I look back, I had hit a winning streak as the trending strategy I was learning at the time was perfect for the market condition I was looking at.
My point being, that you can make a decent buck from a micro account.
You see, herein lies the problem.
I advocated and assume [B]correct money management[/B] for all trading.
[B]In such a case, only a micro account would suffice.[/B]
You say yourself here that you …
- Do not obey the 2% rule
- You yourself state that you do not recommend disobeying this rule.
At least you are being very honest…and for that I commend you.
You have been very fortunate to build up your account the way you have.
Now [B]Sheetal[/B], may not have your good fortune, and in any case, he has asked for advice, and we are compelled to give him what is correct according to the textbooks.
Thus, the 2% rule.
I still use money managment & risk management.
Then I take it that you have now graduated to the 2% rule and correct position sizing to allow your stop losses to equal ~ 2% of your total account.
Losing -$50 isn’t hard either, …
Not surprised at this if you are not using correct position sizing at the time.
Sheetal, instead of worrying about what you can make a day in $, think in pips.
Focus your mind on the goal of learning to be a very skilled trader, the money will happen as a bi product.
I totally agree with this.
But each pip value will be small when you only [U]correctly [/U]trade a $250 account.
In conclusion, all the best with your trading.
[B]I can see that you are shaping up to be a gun trader.[/B]
I can remember when you first came on this forum - full of questions.
Now you have no problem giving first class counsel to the newbies!!
On the contrary, it is correct advice.
I am a teacher and Babpips runs a school on forex trading.
It is important that I do not contradict what the school says.
Read again, the chapter…“The number one cause of death for forex traders”,
the first section headed…“Leverage the killer”.
Then you will understand exactly where I am coming from.
That is where I and the babypips school disagree. I believe they should re think that statement.
Leverage isn’t the killer. Misunderstanding the leverage and using a large amount of leverage when the trader can’t wield the leverage without hurting themselves is what kills.
Frankly IMO, only risking 1-3% of your account, (unless you start off with a million dollar account) will get you no where fast. Also, IMO, the 1-3% rule is something that should be kept in place UNTIL you have a consistent edge. That is you know that you win something like 15/20 trades.
If you don’t have an edge, and are not competent yet, then you absolutely need to stick to 1-3% risk all the time, maybe less. 1-3% is a good thing to preserve your account, until you learn to be consistent.
[B][I]But, utilizing levearage to your advantage is a big part of forex. And using it properly beyond 1-3% isn’t bad trading. It’s just beyond what someone new should be doing.[/I][/B]
IF you become consistent and have a repeatable edge, then it is in your monetary interest to raise your risk. This is not to say the risk should be so foolhardy that it cleans out your account.
P.S. Great teachers don’t just repeat what is writtin in the text, as if it was a written in stone fact. If that is all a teacher does, then their is no reason for them to teach, because it’s already been written, just point the student to the book. A parrot isn’t a teacher.
Well, what can I say?
Every book written by master traders will all say the same thing as the Babypips school.
You can disagree with sound counsel but you do so at your own risk.
I only submit that I would give [U]orthodox counsel[/U] re money management to a person starting out.
P.S. Great teachers don’t just repeat what is writtin in the text, as if it was a written in stone fact. If that is all a teacher does, then their is no reason for them to teach, because it’s already been written, just point the student to the book. A parrot isn’t a teacher.
But I am not a parrot!! 
A teacher brings clarity to the text that is written.
And even so, as an experienced trader I cannot contradict what the school says…because I agree with it.
It is true that at 10 cents per pip, you will make no money.
The school says to go and work and add funds till you have a sizable deposit.
That seems fair to me.
All the best with your trading.
If you re read the babypips school it also says that using a good amount of leverage is useful in the hands of a skilled trader. Read between the lines, often the real clarity is there.
"Every book? So, you’ve read every book there is? I like books myself. But, I’ve found more often than not the ones written by, “master traders,” are often pretty much garbadge. Most of the, “master traders,” don’t come from backgrounds like the smalltime traders here (myself included), most start with millions and trade on that. Most of the traders here are hoping to start small and build their way up, to millions. (sure lets be realistic, but it’s OK to dream big too)
If you do your reasearch, you will find most, “master traders,” are not masters at all, they are leverageing what to most of us are already fotunes and making a living.
It’s much easier to make a living on what is already a fortune. It’s another animal entirely to take a small amount of money and compound it slowly into a fortune.
If I had a multimillion dollar account I could risk only 1% on any one trade, loose 50% of my trades and still make a considerable sum, as long as my win loss ratio was 2:1 and I didn’t let loosers keep running.
Now since I’m small time, I have to risk more to make more AND slowly compound. That is, if my goal is to make a fortune from a small starting account before I am 90. Once I get to critical mass ( a sizeable account which will not trade large amounts easily, then I have to either size down or find a larger lake to swim in)
In the end if what you are doing is working and is found to be repeatable over x amount of trades, IE, an edge, then there is NO reason not to risk more to make more. This as long as it’s really an edge and not a lucky streak or a new excited trader because he won three in a row.
Please understand I am not saying to throw all of your account into a trade or trade unwisely without an edge and just hope.
What I’m saying is develop an edge first. Winning more than losing… Then leverage it higher when you are confident that it is a [B]repeatable edge[/B].
I also disagree with: “The school says to go and work and add funds till you have a sizable deposit.” (I think the above line is a total load of crap, considering most noobs loose their first account & many brokers offer micro accounts and microlots)
A SIZEABLE DEPOSIT IN NO WAY GUARANTEES YOU WILL TRADE WELL. You should not keep depositing money until you have a sizeable deposit IMO. All that will do is make you loose more on your first couple of account which are learning stages. When you can start a small account and keep compounding it, then you know you are starting to build REAL trading skill.
The mindset you talk about: “save up for a sizeable deposit AND then trade, so you can trade big and make the big money,” is a sure way to loose a small fortune that came out of your own pocket.
Quite frankly: If you can’t start with a reputable broker & $100 dollars and slowly compound your winnings, then leverage from there and trade up to a sizeable account, then you or any new trader has no business starting out with more than they can afford to laugh about when they loose. A large starting account will in no way help you be a successful trader. You will just loose more initially.
Most popular brokers offer micro accounts with micro lots. So, what was true in the past (that you can’t really trade unless you have a big account), is simply not true anymore.
P.S. just because I risk more intially does not mean I do not have money management rules.
P.P.S. I have money managment & risk rules. But, they are not for someone brand spanking new to trading, I have already stated that.
Not picking sides here… I just can’t believe anyone that is a long term successful trader would tell a newb with no experience that making 20% return a day is feasible.
This is not directed to any participant on this thread. It is just my opinion to the thread starter.
IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR A NEWB, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR A NOVICE, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR AN EXPERIENCED TRADER, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR EL GRAN SUPER TRADER.
If you want to make 50 bucks a day. Go pick up a second job and put your 50 a day into your trading account. Start slow and small using all the lessons in babypips on money management and risk. Once you have gained all the experience that you think you will ever need, go ahead and blow off all the rules in the Babypips school and trade to your hearts content and good luck.
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pick a number any number and use this 20% daily compounded everyday.
You will see that no matter how small the number you picked, the end number will be more than the financial bailouts after a years time. Nobody here or a single person in the world has that much money. So in conclusion… No one here is qualified to tell you that you can do this because no one here is.
This discussion seems to boil down to this:
To trade properly, you need to risk only 1-3% per trade. But if the starting account is small, this will mean that you’re trading for scraps.
So what to do then? ThePhoenix seems to have choosen one of the two options: bend the rules and try to increase the account fast. If it blows, so be it, it wasn’t a fortune anyway.
I understand that view, believe me!
The other option is of course to accept that things will take time and do everything properly from the start.
This is the ideal way of course, but who has the mental discipline for it? I’m not sure I do. I’ve been considering myself to bend the 1-3% up to 5% until I reach X $
Second, I saw somewhere that ThePhoenix wrote that it’s wrong to focus on the money and that you should focus on the pips instead.
That is imho wrong. “I made 200 pips today” - that statement doesn’t say anything at all! What was your risk? The risk decides how many $ each of those pips can be worth.
After all:
100 pip S/L
2% risk = 50$
1 pip = 0.5$
and a 200 pip profit will result in a profit of [B]100$[/B]
20 pip S/L
2% risk = 50$
1 pip = 2.5$
and a 40 pip profit will result in a profit of? yeah, that’s right [B]100$[/B]
So, was 200 pips better than 40?
Counting pips therefore is completely pointless, instead look at Percent Account Increase
Best regards
I do not recommend quitting your day job. Going into it full time will not make you learn faster. Things take a while to sink in for most noobs.
Sure you can easily make $50-$100 a day, but you can just as easily loose that much and more.
You don’t want to trade on scared money, it will mess with your mental outlook and make you do stupid, stupid moves.
Think of it like going to nightschool. Trading isn’t a get rich quick scheme. But, you can get rich or just make some nice money, if you learn to trade well.
Practice on a few different demo accounts. Set the account size to what you will be starting with. Do this a few times. Be wary if you are always winning, probably means the broker is playing head games with you.
When you think you’ve developed an edge: That is, you know you win more than trades you lose and you moneymanagment doesn’t let loosers get out of control. Then maybe try live slowly. No one wins all their trades, but a good edge would be something 15/20 meaning you win 15 out of 20 trades and cut your losses on the 5 loosers and put a plan in that locks in profits on the winners and gives them a potential to run.
Keep your account intact and compound it slowly. As you compound you can trade larger and risk the same 1-X% of your account. So, eventually 1% becomes a much larger sum than when you started.
Read the following books, in the following order: (quite frankly they are what you want to graduate too after gleaming all you can from babypips ,and better than every book on trading on my shelf)
Trading in the zone, by Mark douglas (will help you think like a trader, I think this is the most important book. If your mindset isn’t right you will hurt yourself)
Forex patterns and probabilities, by Ed Ponsi (easy to understand trading stratagies that work well, aren’t complicated, and are explained with little no ambiquous BS)
The Zurich Axioms, by Max Gunther. Won’t tell you how to trade, but will help you understand why some traders obey risk managments rules of never risking more than 1% and never make a fortune, and others risk great amounts and make great amounts. Much of what this book state flies in the face of traditional moneymanagement/ risk rules.
Yes, I wrote that it is wrong to focus on the money. I focus on pips made and percentage of current account. That is because I trade a percentage of what my account is for the day, and only risk x percentage and win more than I loose. So, as the size of my account grows the percentage stays the same, but the amounts grow.
Just as if I hit a hit a loss in my win loss ratio, my percentage goes down as my account goes down. This is why I concentrate on pips.
It is not good money managment to focus on the money, because you are not focusing on % of your account and folloing any sort of plan. You just end up letting the larger numbers scare you our of trading, as your account grows.
P.S. I’m not bending the rules, I’m using a different set of rules than what most brand new traders are told to use, that I understand, I still have moneymangement that protects my account in place.
Ah, It seems I didn’t read your post thoroughly enough. I guess we’re more or less saying the same thing then.