Can i make 50$ a day?

[tymen1]

YOU ARE ARE A COMPLETE MORON.

Calm down Phoenix!! :mad: :mad:

That statement is unacceptable!!

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are ignorant.

I am a competant mathematician.
I do understand leverage.
There appears to be a [B]missing point[/B] here.

I’m sorry, I don’t care if I get banned for saying this.

Not a very pleasant attitude!!
Why post here if that is the case?

trade…regardless of my leverage ratio setting on my account I am still only risking $20 of my account

From this quote, I will explain the [B]missing point.[/B]

You say you are only risking $20.
Then lets take the mathematics in reverse.

The higher the leverage, the less the price movement that is needed to get to that $20 you risk.
At 400:1, you will only need a few pips before you hit your $20 stop loss!! :eek:

I have 400:1 leverage on my micro account

Ahhhh!

You solve the problem by using a [U]micro account.[/U]

Well, well, well.

Is that not what I stated to use in my very first post on this thread?
And did you not say I was very wrong?

Looks like we have gone around in a full circle and my statements were correct after all.

(sigh)

I agree with [B]o99016mh [/B]in that trading a micro account you will be trading for scraps.

So the only real solution is what I stated in the first place and has been rebuked for no good reason.
That solution is to get off one’s butt, stop being lazy and do some work and then properly capitalize your forex account.

The highest probability of success in the forex world is to [U]properly capitalize [/U]your account and then trade it with [U]smart leverage.[/U]

I would suggest that 400:1 is rather excessive.

[Ray_1]

Let relax and take things from a relaxed point of view. This is just one good soul asking a question from more experienced ppl in this forum for advise. So let not turn this into a war zone. Nowadays BP forum had too much disputes going on. I really miss the good old days which mytwopips said whereby everyone is friendly and helpful in this small community. Let lighten up and enjoy our trading journey and learn and help one another.

[hess]

Hey Phoenix

You’re wrong about the Zurich axioms. I’ve read the book have you?

Nowhere does it say if you risk 1% you’re not going to make any money in fact one of the axioms advocates the opposite which is cutting losses.

What the book does say and I think is major axiom #1 is you should trade with a significant amount of money. There’s a saying around trading circles which says only trade with what you can afford to lose. The axioms says this is incorrect, if you do so you’ll never really make any money. You have to start with a significant amount of money something which if you lose will effect you to some extent.

Don’t confuse this with it not saying if u risk 1% per trade you’re not going to make any money. It doesn’t say that anywhere, you’re the one who saying that not the book.

Please don’t misinterpret the book.

You’re totally wrong about the book but not entirely wrong in what you say.

Larry Wiliams says if you risk 2% per trade you’re not going to get anywhere. “Too slow, you’ll never make any money” as per his words. But he’s talking about seasoned traders not beginners. Those who have the skill and a positive expectancy on the higher side. But then again this is reckless trading, Williams himself had huge swings in his equity because of this and he himself has admitted this.

I think the BP school is correct in saying save until you have a large account. The James16 group says the same thing and we all know they’ve helped scores of people.

Go read James16 steps to becoming a trader.

I think you’ve just begun trading recently … thats what I gather from your comments, am I correct?

With some more experience you’ll find for inexplicable reasons even though you’re following your trading rules to the letter you have extended periods of successive losses its at this time you’ll realize the value of the 2% rule.

a good trader is someone who has a smooth equity curve not someone with wild swings in his equity. Its always in relation to risk vs return.

There was a trading competituion of some bank (I forgot which one) recently and the person who won was a german woman her return was only 80% whereas others had achieved 500%. The reason she won is because she made the 80% without virtually ever losing any money.

Risk is the most important thing to concentrate on. I think you need some more experience or to read some more books.

Sheetalben don’t believe what myself or Phoenix or anyone else in here says, in here anyone could say anything. Its much better you believe what the BP’s school says or the James16 group say.

[tymen1]

I just can’t believe anyone that is a long term successful trader would tell a newb with no experience that making 20% return a day is feasible.

IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR A NEWB, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR A NOVICE, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR AN EXPERIENCED TRADER, IT CLEARLY IS NOT FOR EL GRAN SUPER TRADER.

If you want to make 50 bucks a day. Go pick up a second job and put your 50 a day into your trading account. Start slow and small using all the lessons in babypips on money management and risk.

[B]
Correct.[/B]

To trade properly, you need to risk only 1-3% per trade. But if the starting account is small, this will mean that you’re trading for scraps.

So what to do then? ThePhoenix seems to have choosen one of the two options: bend the rules and try to increase the account fast. If it blows, so be it, it wasn’t a fortune anyway.
I understand that view, believe me!

[B]Fair enough.[/B]

I can also understand phoenix bending the rules a little bit (up to 5%) because of his experience and risk appetite now that his account is back on track.

However this will not yield 20% a day consistently and the thought of making this a day after day goal is just a joke.

[B]Correct.[/B]

[tymen1]

However, even a fraction of that is a strong argument for starting a micro account and slowly building the account upon it’self, instead of saving up a large sum of money from a job AND THEN learning to trade.

[B]The Phoenix is saying it himself.[/B]

1 mini lot on avg is $1/pip …max you could earn with 5 minilots would be $5/pip.

On the good side, with 5minilots, you’d only need to make 10 pips, or 50 pips with 1 mini, per day which may mean you need to put on multiple trades a day to get your 50 pips in increments.

But on the bad side, if you used 5 minilots and price went against you, you could only withstand a 50 pip loss and then you’d get a margin call and that’s it…no more money. Of course if you only used 1 minlot, then you could withstand 250 pips loss before a margin call.

[B]Correct.[/B]

Sheetal asked if she can make $50 on a $250 investment daily. I was only answering to that. No you cannot make 50 daily on your initial 250. Yes you can compound it over time to a point where you can-but to her questions,whether she should quit her day job and start trading in hope of making 50 bucks every day from day one, ain’t gonna happen.

[B]Correct.[/B]

[tymen1]

This is exactly what cause people to lose thier accounts… Leverage dictates your required margin. So the higher the leverage, the lower the required margin and visa versa… now what does that mean??

When you get margin called, how much money are you going to have left in your account?? haha, well if your at 400:1… your basically busted, at 10:1 you’ll still have something to walk away with… This is why Leverage is called the killer because it can allow you to lose basically your entire account…

[B]Correct.[/B]

As a “master contributor” you should be advocating caution to new traders… and trading a 400:1 account as a new trader, who will undoubtably make mistakes and forget SLs…etc…etc, [B][U]is in very poor judgement [/U][/B]

[B]Correct.[/B]

I think the idea is you save up the money WHILE learning to trade, so when you are ready to get serious, you have enough capital that you DON’T need to risk 10% per trade or whatever to make any money worth counting.

[B]Correct.[/B]

I think the BP school is correct in saying save until you have a large account.
…
With some more experience you’ll find for inexplicable reasons even though you’re following your trading rules to the letter you have extended periods of successive losses its at this time you’ll realize the value of the 2% rule.

Its much better you believe what the BP’s school says or the James16 group say.

[B]
Correct.

In summary, I personally will always advocate the Babypips school teachings.
As a teacher, I would be made to look a fool if I did not do so.

People change the Babypips procedures at their own peril.[/B]

[Sweet_Pip]

From what I understand, leverage only affects your margin used. So with a mini account:

• 400:1 each minilot uses only $25 dollars of your margin,
• 200:1, uses $50.

The more lots, the higher the pip value. On a $250 account with:

• 400:1, that can be up to 10 lots ($10/pip) in however many trades at a time.
• 200:1 means up to 5 lots ($5/pip) in however many trades at a time

Therefore the danger is that one can think they can put on more trades or more lots per trade at the same time.

If one only has $250. to get a margin call, then it will only take :

• 25 pip loss with 400:1 using max lots of 10,
• 50 pips on 200:1 using max lots of 5

But if I only have 1 minilot open, it would take 250 pips loss whether it’s 200:1 or 400:1.

The managment part is putting on the correct number of lots that is proportionate to your risk/reward ratio.

[Cdawg]

I’m sorry, I don’t care if I get banned for saying this. I won’t explain leverage again because I already have. But YOU ARE ARE A COMPLETE MORON. You do not understand what you think you do.

What percentage you risk of your account is decided by you, not your leverage ratio!!!

You can risk 1% of your account wether your account has leverage set at 2:1 or 40000:1.

If you decide to risk 1% of your account per trade or 50%, if your leverage is set at 400:1, it is still 400:1, regardless of your risk %.

If I trade at $1.00 a pip and my sl/risk% is 20 pips for one trade…regardless of my leverage ratio setting on my account I am still only risking $20 of my account.

LOL, you are too funny… Somebody who can’t differentiate a discussion about leverage from money management and risk is calling me a moron? That is ironic

We were talking about leverage, not about risk. I guess you don’t know how to read.

You still didn’t explain how I can use my full leverage??? haha (and i’m the moron)

Tell me why high leverage has been called the account killer then mr wise guy… That is pretty well defined in virtually any trading book… so think about it and let me know, once you figure that out, then you will see the [B][U]simple[/U][/B] point I was making.

Anyway, no offense taken from your remark…

[ThePhoenix]

LOL, you are too funny… Somebody who can’t differentiate a discussion about leverage from money management and risk is calling me a moron? That is ironic

We were talking about leverage, not about risk. I guess you don’t know how to read.

You still didn’t explain how I can use my full leverage??? haha (and i’m the moron)

Tell me why high leverage has been called the account killer then mr wise guy… That is pretty well defined in virtually any trading book… so think about it and let me know, once you figure that out, then you will see the [B][U]simple[/U][/B] point I was making.

Anyway, no offense taken from your remark…

You are just proving your low IQ all the more. Please read the entire thread, at least starting from my first post in in. No where did I confuse risk and leverage. Then if a light bulb goes on in your dim brain, (doubtful), try not to feel to bad about how stupid you are.

Leverage only kills accounts, if you don’t know how to use it (like you) and leverage your whole account.

[ThePhoenix]

Calm down Phoenix!! :mad: :mad:

That statement is unacceptable!!

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are ignorant.

I am a competant mathematician.
I do understand leverage.
There appears to be a [B]missing point[/B] here.

Not a very pleasant attitude!!
Why post here if that is the case?

From this quote, I will explain the [B]missing point.[/B]

You say you are only risking $20.
Then lets take the mathematics in reverse.

The higher the leverage, the less the price movement that is needed to get to that $20 you risk.
At 400:1, you will only need a few pips before you hit your $20 stop loss!! :eek:

Ahhhh!

You solve the problem by using a [U]micro account.[/U]

Well, well, well.

Is that not what I stated to use in my very first post on this thread?
And did you not say I was very wrong?

Looks like we have gone around in a full circle and my statements were correct after all.

(sigh)

I agree with [B]o99016mh [/B]in that trading a micro account you will be trading for scraps.

So the only real solution is what I stated in the first place and has been rebuked for no good reason.
That solution is to get off one’s butt, stop being lazy and do some work and then properly capitalize your forex account.

The highest probability of success in the forex world is to [U]properly capitalize [/U]your account and then trade it with [U]smart leverage.[/U]

I would suggest that 400:1 is rather excessive.

If someone disagrees with me AND THEY ARE WRONG, then yes they are ignorant! In both senses of the word.

[ThePhoenix]

Calm down Phoenix!! :mad: :mad:

That statement is unacceptable!!

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are ignorant.

I am a competant mathematician.
I do understand leverage.
There appears to be a [B]missing point[/B] here.

Not a very pleasant attitude!!
Why post here if that is the case?

From this quote, I will explain the [B]missing point.[/B]

You say you are only risking $20.
Then lets take the mathematics in reverse.

The higher the leverage, the less the price movement that is needed to get to that $20 you risk.
At 400:1, you will only need a few pips before you hit your $20 stop loss!! :eek:

Ahhhh!

You solve the problem by using a [U]micro account.[/U]

Well, well, well.

Is that not what I stated to use in my very first post on this thread?
And did you not say I was very wrong?

Looks like we have gone around in a full circle and my statements were correct after all.

(sigh)

I agree with [B]o99016mh [/B]in that trading a micro account you will be trading for scraps.

So the only real solution is what I stated in the first place and has been rebuked for no good reason.
That solution is to get off one’s butt, stop being lazy and do some work and then properly capitalize your forex account.

The highest probability of success in the forex world is to [U]properly capitalize [/U]your account and then trade it with [U]smart leverage.[/U]

I would suggest that 400:1 is rather excessive.

Tymen you are completely wrong as well. And frankly I’m very surprised.

"You say you are only risking $20.
Then lets take the mathematics in reverse.

The higher the leverage, the less the price movement that is needed to get to that $20 you risk.
At 400:1, you will only need a few pips before you hit your $20 stop "

No, not at all. My leverage ratio doesn’t dictate that. My lot size does. If I’m trading at $1.00 a pip and my SL is 20 pip I will be stopped out at -20 pips regardless if my leverage is set at 400:1 or 10:1.

I’m talking actual leverage ratio. Actual leverage you have on your account. Not, the amount of your account you are leveraging. Wether you risk 1% or 10% of your account your leverage ratio does not chage.

As I said before wether I have 400:1 or 10:1 leverage, if my pip value is $1.00 it’s still one dollar a pip.

Lets take the concept of leverage from it’s basic concept. A long wooden lever balanced over a rock from it’s center. Wether you lever a tiny pebble or boulder on the opposite side that you push on, the size of the lever does not change. The amount you are levering changes!!!

400:1 is still 400:1 wether you are risking 1% or 90%. Leverage doesn’t decide your risk or make a trade any riskier, unless you are stupid and try to lever your whole account or a large percentage of it in one trade.

P.S. It doesn’t matter if it’s a micro account or full size account.

[ifortune]

Aren’t you guys senior member waste of your time just debate about leverage, MM etc.
The question was simple could you make $50/day ? That’s it…YES or NO
Sorry…because all your topic run to MM, leverage…etc…just accept the opinion everyone have different one. Well, at least he or she with different opinion MM, Lev. or else could make $50/day. That’s it.
PEACE

[ThePhoenix]

Hey Phoenix

You’re wrong about the Zurich axioms. I’ve read the book have you?

Nowhere does it say if you risk 1% you’re not going to make any money in fact one of the axioms advocates the opposite which is cutting losses.

What the book does say and I think is major axiom #1 is you should trade with a significant amount of money. There’s a saying around trading circles which says only trade with what you can afford to lose. The axioms says this is incorrect, if you do so you’ll never really make any money. You have to start with a significant amount of money something which if you lose will effect you to some extent.

Don’t confuse this with it not saying if u risk 1% per trade you’re not going to make any money. It doesn’t say that anywhere, you’re the one who saying that not the book.

Please don’t misinterpret the book.

You’re totally wrong about the book but not entirely wrong in what you say.

Larry Wiliams says if you risk 2% per trade you’re not going to get anywhere. “Too slow, you’ll never make any money” as per his words. But he’s talking about seasoned traders not beginners. Those who have the skill and a positive expectancy on the higher side. But then again this is reckless trading, Williams himself had huge swings in his equity because of this and he himself has admitted this.

I think the BP school is correct in saying save until you have a large account. The James16 group says the same thing and we all know they’ve helped scores of people.

Go read James16 steps to becoming a trader.

I think you’ve just begun trading recently … thats what I gather from your comments, am I correct?

With some more experience you’ll find for inexplicable reasons even though you’re following your trading rules to the letter you have extended periods of successive losses its at this time you’ll realize the value of the 2% rule.

a good trader is someone who has a smooth equity curve not someone with wild swings in his equity. Its always in relation to risk vs return.

There was a trading competituion of some bank (I forgot which one) recently and the person who won was a german woman her return was only 80% whereas others had achieved 500%. The reason she won is because she made the 80% without virtually ever losing any money.

Risk is the most important thing to concentrate on. I think you need some more experience or to read some more books.

Sheetalben don’t believe what myself or Phoenix or anyone else in here says, in here anyone could say anything. Its much better you believe what the BP’s school says or the James16 group say.

For the record I have read the axioms, and I did not take away what you did.

Also for the record, if the james16 group you are talking about is the james that promotes is $97 trading room, and his IB method, I was in that as well.

Frankly it stunk. You sat and watched him place trades as he taught you nothing, nothing that couldn’t be put together in 20 page book. Also, IMO, his IB strategy stinks. The study materials, where you were supposed to figure what he was doing, were laughable. There is a reason he runs other business.

I caught him three times yelling at different people for asking questions and not knowing something that they, “should have,” learned from an earlier session.

I don’t know why babypips allows him to promote is trading room. He’s making pretty penny from it. Probably more than he does from trading. Be wary of anyone promoting a trading group for pay, if they were that good of a trader they wouldn’t bother running a trading room as a business, they would make money trading.

[hess]

For the record I have read the axioms, and I did not take away what you did.

Also for the record, if the james16 group you are talking about is the james that promotes is $97 trading room, and his IB method, I was in that as well.

Frankly it stunk. You sat and watched him place trades as he taught you nothing, nothing that couldn’t be put together in 20 page book. Also, IMO, his IB strategy stinks. The study materials, where you were supposed to figure what he was doing, were laughable. There is a reason he runs other business.

I caught him three times yelling at different people for asking questions and not knowing something that they, “should have,” learned from an earlier session.

I don’t know why babypips allows him to promote is trading room. He’s making pretty penny from it. Probably more than he does from trading. Be wary of anyone promoting a trading group for pay, if they were that good of a trader they wouldn’t bother running a trading room as a business, they would make money trading.

I think you really need to shut up now because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Btw James16 doesn’t teach anything about IB’s they they teach correct trading principles & its a forum not a trading room. They do charge a fee but I’m not a member everything you need to learn is free in the James16 chart thread at ff. I’ll repeat they are not promoted by BP I’ve never seen them on BP and they don’t teach IB’s.

Scores of people haver benefited from Jim and turned profitable and that too all for free. I’ve seen it happen before my eyes. This is not the only method there are several techniques to follow but all of them agree on one thing … never risk more than 2% per trade. If you read the market wizard books you’ll see some trader who use TA have total disdain for Fa and those like Jim Rogers who use FA claim they only rich technicians they’ve ever seen are those who sell their advisory services.

Yet they all agree on one thing … never risk more than 2% per trade. Do you realize how imp this is?

As I said before you need to shut up now and do some actual reading as opposed to incessant squabbling and misinterpreting things.

Oh and also please do quote the passage from the axioms which says if you risk 1% you’re not going to make anything.

I’ll be waiting.

[Sweet_Pip]

Aren’t you guys senior member waste of your time just debate about leverage, MM etc.
The question was simple could you make $50/day ? That’s it…YES or NO
Sorry…because all your topic run to MM, leverage…etc…just accept the opinion everyone have different one. Well, at least he or she with different opinion MM, Lev. or else could make $50/day. That’s it.
PEACE

No ifortune, I don’t think it’s a waste of time to debate all this… the question isn’t as simple as whether one can make $50/day with a $250 mini account…but since Sheetal used the words “wondering if he/she should quit his/her day job”, opens up the debate “if” that’s a good idea or not …and why.

While yes it is possible, the path to do so takes a saavy money management/leverage strategy on top of a really good trading strategy.

However, the original post is still quite an open ended question which still need some qualifiers, such as is the balance going to stay around $250 due to daily or monthly withdrawals. I mention this because if one is going to quit their job, they’ll need to live off something.

This tangent then becomes somewhat different from what Phoenix discusses which is “building up” one’s balance from $250.

[ThePhoenix]

I think you really need to shut up now because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Btw James16 doesn’t teach anything about IB’s they they teach correct trading principles & its a forum not a trading room. They do charge a fee but I’m not a member everything you need to learn is free in the James16 chart thread at ff. I’ll repeat they are not promoted by BP I’ve never seen them on BP and they don’t teach IB’s.

Scores of people haver benefited from Jim and turned profitable and that too all for free. I’ve seen it happen before my eyes. This is not the only method there are several techniques to follow but all of them agree on one thing … never risk more than 2% per trade. If you read the market wizard books you’ll see some trader who use TA have total disdain for Fa and those like Jim Rogers who use FA claim they only rich technicians they’ve ever seen are those who sell their advisory services.

Yet they all agree on one thing … never risk more than 2% per trade. Do you realize how imp this is?

As I said before you need to shut up now and do some actual reading as opposed to incessant squabbling and misinterpreting things.

Oh and also please do quote the passage from the axioms which says if you risk 1% you’re not going to make anything.

I’ll be waiting.

Yes, I don’t know anything, but I’ve already traded a $100 micro account to almost 3K LIVE. Inside a few months. With part time trading…

Go read another book and dream about trading live…one day… when you think you’ve mastered trading…by reading a book…then you might even actually trade. Then dream about how you think you will be a profitable trader because you always obey the 2% rule.

FYI, the 2% rule isn’t a rule. It’s risk managment princible recommended for noobs so they can preserve their first account long enough to learn something. Only risking 2% in and of it’self won’t make you profitable. You can still loose your whole account 2% at a time. Low risk in a trade doesn’t automatically make you a good trader.

Is james16 ALSO the guy here with the $97 dollar trading room fee that has the IB thread? A thread which is basically a long sales pitch for his trading room. That why I said “If i’ts the same guy I’m thinking about.”

“before your eyes,” lol, right. What you’ve seen is yet another would be trading guru who has amassed as starry eyed following. You being one of them.

[daydreamer65]

I’m looking at getting into forex full time. I checked a couple of accounts on different websites. They have 200:1 leverage. A mini account investment is 250$ and i get a leverage of 50000$ . With this can i look at making a profit of arnd 50 -100$ a day.
I was wondering if i should quit my job and get into to full time.

This is the O/P’s original post & the plain answer is no from a
standing start, without any training at all, you cannot earn $50
to $100 a day from Forex.

Also for the record, if the james16 group you are talking about is the james that promotes is $97 trading room, and his IB method, I was in that as well.

No they are not the same person.

Also it does not surprise me that you flunked out of James room,
as reading through this whole thread proves to me that nobody
can teach you anything ThePhoenix, you know it all. :lmao:

[mytwopips]

Yes, I don’t know anything, but I’ve already traded a $100 micro account to almost 3K LIVE. Inside a few months. With part time trading…

Everybody has nice points and for the most are all correct. But you Phoenix have not yet had the stress and joy of having “real money” to manage.

The above is play money that can be highly risked because you can walk away from a total wipe out and not lose any sleep.

This doesn’t mean you are not a talented trader, you are. You are just not on the level as a trader with real funds to trade. When you get there, and you will, you will understand. I hope your success never backs down.

Back to the original topic of the first poster. NO, YOU WILL NOT MAKE A CONSITENT RETURN OF 20% DAY AFTER DAY. PERIOD.

[ThePhoenix]

This is the O/P’s original post & the plain answer is no from a
standing start, without any training at all, you cannot earn $50
to $100 a day from Forex.

No they are not the same person.

Also it does not surprise me that you flunked out of James room,
as reading through this whole thread proves to me that nobody
can teach you anything ThePhoenix, you know it all. :lmao:

LOL, I didn’t flunk. I quit going after two weeks because it was worthless.

[Sweet_Pip]

This is the O/P’s original post & the plain answer is no from a
standing start, without any training at all, you cannot earn $50
to $100 a day from Forex.

The thing is, we don’t know if Sheetal has or hasn’t had any training.

To me, it sounds like he/she’s had success on a $50k demo account but since he/she doesn’t have $50k to start with, he/she’s wondering if the same success can be found when starting with just $250. The only way to find out is to try a $250 demo account.