Competitive Trader Thread!

Trading Discussion Trade Journals
162

Yes, I agree, swing trading is not within my comfort zone and most likely I am more suited as a scalper trader, actually. However, I want to incorporate swing trading into my trading to put more emphasis on technical analysis and overall trend of the market.

This is for me to get a greater understanding of the market, and also, I don’t expect to be profitable for the first 6 months. I’ll rather lose now than lose continuously in the future.

I want to know everything about the forex market, when to switch to become a scalper, day trader or swing trader. I think it’s possible if I plan to stick around forex forever to incorporate my ideas, who knows, I might change my opinion after more experience.

Another note, I see my mistakes as futile to my overall goal in forex ATM and just focusing on practical experience and the process in becoming good later. Also, Personality wise I am more of a discretionary trader rather than a systematic trader. I find it hard to stick to a very systematic approach because IMO a candlestick signal can mean that the time limit of the candlestick just formed at the right time. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t take candlestick reading lightly, however, I prefer to look at how are the bulls and bears acting on the candlestick in the market, what is affecting these prices to move in the direction it’s going, what psychological T/P or S/L that I need to put into consideration which is market sentiment and all these things I consider are price action signals for me, which I should probably type up on a trade plan actually.

In the end, I don’t want to be profitable ASAP and skip my learning in forex but be consistently profitable year after year after year. :grin:

163

Traders who expect the markets to conform to their personality are called failed traders. Profitable traders are traders who become who the market demands that they be.

I cannot emphasis this enough. The market does not care what you want, or how you think things should work. You either adapt your psychology and your behaviours to suit the market, or you lose your investment capital.

This is a very frustrating comment. You seem to think that failing more will make you a better trader, but practicing failing strategies only makes you better at failing strategies. Do you practice drowning over and over again before learning to swim?

I know you are worried about ‘missing out’ on some key knowledge by being successful to early - is that really a thing? - but this is like saying you don’t want to learn to drive until you have qualified as a mechanic. Not only is becoming a mechanic completely unnecessary, but you would actually be better mechanic if you knew how to drive because it would give you context for what you are learning.

You will learn more from your first profitable month than from six months of losses. Remember - profitability is not the ‘end game’. It is the beginning of the game. Playing the tutorial for longer than necessary doesn’t help you in the long run.

As I was typing this, a thought struck me. Are you sure of your motives? This rather feels like you are coming up with excuses to avoid truly testing yourself. After all, losing doesn’t count if you are not really trying, right? :unamused:

164

Yes, the market markets probably made their move to do some stop-loss hunting, however, if the FA is not good on behalf of JPY overall, shouldn’t I be entering a trade now, long to take advantage of a reset back to the correct fundamentals. Plus the news was actually confusing monetary easing even though they have expectations of economic growth for this year.

165

I don’t expect the market to conform to my ways of thinking, A discretionary trader is someone that bases his decisions on current market conditions. Whether if it’s ranging, trending or even news events. Also, I am pretty sure there are certain market conditions that are more suited for a Scalper, Day or Swing trader approach if I am not mistaken.

Hence, why I said I want to learn on how to be a Scalper, day and Swing trader because I am changing my personality to suit the market. I want to be an all’rounder for all market conditions.

I also believe you take “discretionary” as a bad indicator of being unsuccessful trading, But being a discretionary trader you have to follow the news continuously to avoid short S/L or over the top T/P (which I am making mistakes on and definitely want to improve on), trying to read price action, understand market sentiment, look at psychological T/P or S/L areas, look at candlestick patterns and try to follow the overall trend of the market.

166

I just see losing as a learning experience; I have a lot of ideas that I want to test on the Forex market with serious intentions of making money, of course. If I didn’t take it seriously, I wouldn’t have controlled risk management :laughing:

I only have been trading for close to three weeks I believe with real money, I do have a book journal I write in that I do not show on the online forum, a structured thought process that I consider in my trades which I call “trading approach”, so I am pretty serious about this forex business.

I am just realistic and I believe 80% of my trade ideas are probably rubbish and write this journal to review my trades.

167

Excellent, and let me know if you need a hand on the basics of setting it up.
if you like i can make a pdf for you and upload it with a basic type of setup to get your started.

that’s good to hear.

yeah… hehe
but also keep in mind that the majority of trades are stupid and fickle (i’m not being rude, i’m being factual),
and the point is… you need to therefore understand that SENTIMENT is stupid and fickle at times.
New can correlate with sentiment because news impacts sentiment regardless of whether news is factual or not.
just something to keep in mind when viewing the news.

Probably…
but the big question is
ARE YOU RECORDING YOUR PLAN
example : I created a flow chart a long time ago,
it’s been refined over time to iron out the error in it and to add detail where it’s needed

do you have a plan or flow chart that reminds you of what to do when you trade
if you don’t , CONSIDER IT SERIOUSLY.

very true
don’t open to many at once, start with one maybe two, and then when you master how to do that,
you can then add more if needed
if you placed 2, for example and then you realize (which WILL HAPPEN) that you NOW need to open another… TOUGH LUCK you only get 2
and this attitude will teach you to be patient and wait for your entry’s
something else to keep in mind.

yes, but keep in mind … this does not always mean Take it Short term
compare a bank robber who goes into a bank and take a million dollars in one hit
compared to something like the movie swordfish where a bot is inserted into the bank network and takes like 3 cents at a time, for a few decades
and at the end of that LONG TERM there are billions

so… yes
TAKE WHAT YOU CAN… GIVE NOTHING BACK

GOOD LUCK WITH IT MATE

1 Like
168

I’ll take your advice and create a trading plan for news events, trending and ranging markets with your post and won’t trade for the rest of the week with the intention of switching gears on being a scalper, day trader or swing trader.

169

You are quite right, of course. In this context I do interpret ‘discretionary trading’ as a bad thing.

You see, discretion, like respect, is something that is earned. At the end of the day, it simply means ‘the right to decide’, and the ‘right to decide’ is only as good as the decisions you make. So for a trader who has demonstrated understanding of the markets by designing and running profitable systems, with years of profitable trading behind him and hundreds of hours of watching the markets, ‘discretionary trading’ may make sense.

However, it is absolutely the worst possible way for new, inexperienced traders to start.

Look at how we chose judges - the ultimate ‘deciders’ - here in the UK. You don’t just rock up and become a judge. You spend years earning a law degree and then spend decades applying what you have learned in real world situations. And of all the barristers and solicitors out there, some tiny fraction will be chosen to exercise ‘the right to decide’. Because getting it right, consistently, is hard.

I don’t want to beat you over the head with this, Ben. You’ve clearly decided how you want to trade, and how you want to proceed. But I do feel that you are making the road for yourself far harder than it needs to be.

But what do I know? My experience is all I have to go on, and you are not me. So, best of luck, however you decide to play this.

1 Like
170

You have more experience than me, so I won’t be trading for the rest of the week devising a suitable plan for next week, I HATE missing out on the market but what can I do. :sob:

171

@Ben1987
An observation if i may…

you know how people tell newbies, Leave emotion out of trading ?
well. there’s many ways to interpret that,
there’s the really obvious way
and there’s stuff like this…

this is emotions while trading
and TO PROVE IT, You can’t have an emoticon if you did not intent to express an emotion
(yes i’m joking, but i’m also being serious)

the point is… LITTLE STUFF LIKE THIS will eat at you ,
it’s best to kill these useless hates while they are small and defenseless

trade without emotion
don’t feel anything about missing out
if you miss out, MOVE ONTO THE NEXT ONE

emotions should not form part of the process AT ALL

think about it

2 Likes
172

For what it’s worth, I know exactly how you feel. Getting that feeling of ‘missing out’ under control was one of my biggest psychological battles. The other big one was being able to admit when I was wrong about a market movement - I was a terrible one for riding losing trades to the bitter end when I could have, and should have, gotten out in token profit ages ago.

The weird thing is that the better I get at this, the less I trade, and the more profitable I become. So far this month I’m at 8.5R, with only 9 trades. Actually, I’m at 9.5R, because I was able to see one of my two losers coming, and get out with a token amount of profit, although I do still have to count that as a loss for calculating my hit rate. :stuck_out_tongue:

In this game, less tends to be so very much more.

173

I guess I am too much of an opportunist :stuck_out_tongue:, every pip matters for me lol.
But I did learn a lot during this period of real live trading, so maybe its time for me to create a trading plan on how I approach trading for next week considering everything I learnt.

174

yes it is[quote=“Ben1987, post:173, topic:128536”]
so maybe its time for me to create a trading plan on how I approach trading
[/quote]

let me give you a head start on how to do it

You’re going to sit down and try and make it the most complicated PERFECT THING IN ONE HIT

THAT … WILL NOT HAPPEN

don’t do that

DO THIS…
Sit down and put down what comes to mind instinctively , Just jot down point forms, before you make a flow chart
then add a few other points

now… look at them all and organize them in logical sequence.

and THAT’S YOUR FIRST DRAFT
its’ a place to start, nothing more

from here, follow it while you’re trading

Now… you will find that you will get to parts in it where you say to yourself “Oh Shyte, i should have put this in here as well”

well. ADD IT IN
and then rinse and repeat until you get to a point where you LITERALLY cannot get to a point where you are saying “oh… i should have put that in”

when you achieve that YOU HAVE A DEFINITION OF HOW YOU TRADE

the beauty of this is… IF YOU LOSE A TRADE, You can DEFINE at what point you fell over and why.

start there mate
and refine it until you can no longer fault it

175

Currently, this is my decision tree in how I decide to enter a trade.

Flow chart 24jan.png898×528 32.3 KB

I made a flowchart and still in the process of thinking of:
1.trade entry signals for swing, ranging and news situations.
2. Questions I will ask before I enter each trade to double check the FA, TA & SA are aligned. (Fundamental analysis, Technical analysis and Sentiment analysis)
3. S/L, T/P that align my risk management goals, whether it is Swing, scalper or day trading.

Well this is a process in the making, which I have learnt from my practical experience of trading. I probably need to branch out my technical analysis for swing trading but for scalping the news, not really.

176

ok good
now let’s have fun and scrutinize it
(DON’T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY OK)

you did the first step well… good man
now im going to show you how to question it

  1. you need to understand the the purpose of this thing is… it should FLOW so that an idiot could follow it

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS

  1. DO these points means something to you ?
    if so that’s good,
    but if they seem vague like they do to me MAKE THEM MORE SPECIFIC
    but, if you understand what you need to do… THAT’S OK

  2. so… let’s walk through this flow chart and test it
    so…

Orange rectangle - Overview… ok
then… Arrow down to green circle… ok
green circle… - econcomic events… ok

now… Arrow… Arrow…
Ummmm

QUESTION 1. Which path do i take
QUESTION 2. if i go to Yellow circle and listen to news

after that… WHERE THE HELL DO I GO, there is no arrow to point me out of this place or to tell me what to do next
THIS IS A FLAW THAT YOU NEED TO FIX
which is why we walk through the flow chart TO TEST IF IT WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD

You must only have 1 Arrow in 1 direction at one time
but you are allowed to create LOOPS in the chart
things like IF YES… GO HERE
IF NOW… GO HERE

try that

also
at what point does it say to place a trade
at what point are you checking your emotions
at what point are you checking your risk management
at what point are you managing that trade while it’s in progress
at what point does the process finish and go back to the beginning

these are all things you need to consider

Stay with it mate
YOU’RE DOING GOOD… ok

like i said
to revisions of it
and scrutinize it
and test it REAL WORLD to see if IT TRULY DOES FLOW

be cool

177

The flow chart looks very professional, but maybe a little complicated. Some of those news channels will have your head spinning.

Don’t forget the levels, see how some guys exited at the 110.50, others hung in - thus price bobbled about that level for a while. See also the level they took it to.

Learning the levels can be an immense help, imagine that trade that I spoke of at UK open this morning using those levels for TP and SL.

1 Like
178

I have not created a sequence or a systematic approach to my three trading styles but will work on it this week. Also, I am revisiting my approach to trading which has helped me clear a lot of things.

flow chart 24jan(1).png781×529 31 KB

flow chart 24jan(2).png785×532 27.2 KB

179

Much better mate
GOOD WORK

now, i’m not going to continue nit picking at this, i’ll leave that to you
but I WILL SAY THIS… it all looks good but this box I CAN SEE FAILING

LET ME EXPLAIN
once i have a clear picture ON THE AMOUNT OF RISK i am exposed to
PROBLEM : Your’e too vague… DEFINE THE AMOUNT OF RISK

i can work on my S/L and T/P
PROBLEM - You don’t need to say it, Just make a box dedicated to DEFINING S/L and T/P

and develop GOOD TRADE SIGNAL
PROBLEM - What is a GOOD trade signal
DEFINE “GOOD”
DEFINE THE PARAMATERS

you really need to make this a flow chart that is like TRADING FOR DUMMIES

now this box , IF NOT RECTIFIED can stuff up your entire risk management hehe

SO… POINT IS…
you see what i’m getting at … right
AVOID BEING VAGUE
BE AS SPECIFIC AS YOU CAN AND DEFINE IT AS SIMPLY AS IF YOU WERE TALKING TO A 5 YEAR OLD.

be cool dude

1 Like
180

Is that the only box that concerns you ?

If so, my next step was to make a detailed approach for my trading styles tonight.

181

@Ben1987
mate, my first concern is… i shouldn’t be intervening too much because IT’S YOUR SYSTEM

and i don’t want you to cater it to me.
but all i’m saying is… I did this VAGUE THING as well

and i found that Until i got specific and defined things i wasn’t profitable

example

Step 1. based on research define an entry point
Step 2. Have i defined an entry point
Step 3. Am i certain about the entry point
Step 4. Define WHY this is a good entry point (this will later serve to show you where you stuff up)
Step 5. have i defined a Take profit
Step 6. do i know why i have placed the Take profit at this specific point
Step 7. Have i defined a Stop Loss
Step 8. Do i know why i have put it here specifically
Step 9. Does the stop loss give me an ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF RISK
Step 10. if the trade gets stopped out, do i have a fall back plan

and then everything like
Step 5. have i defined a Take profit
Step 6. do i know why i have placed the Take profit at this specific point

should sort of be like this

Step 5. have i defined a Take profit
if YES Move to Step 6

if NO - Define a Take profit

Step 6. do i know why i have placed the Take profit at this specific point
if YES - Move to Step 7

if NO - Determine the specific reason

THINGS LIKE THAT is what i’m talking about

this should be YOUR TRADE PLAN
i just want to be point out really obviously that you need to really really get specific, but IN YOUR OWN WORDS, not mine

at the end of the day, if your flow chart looks like garbage to me, BUT YOU UNDERSTAND IT specifically… that’s fine
so that’s my point

but you are doing good mate, don’t worry
this takes a few months to perfect, so just let it happen

be cool

oh. one last note
a guy gave a very good piece of to me at one point.
he called it

BUILD A CASE
and
PROVE YOUR CASE

it means this…

Imagine you are in court and i accuse you of stealing something in a shop
now, i can accuse
or
i can do something more concrete

I CAN BUILD A CASE AGAINST YOU
example

the CCTV camera on the streets shows you walking into the shop
the CCTV camera in the store shows you waling into the isle
and the item can be seen on the shelf
you are then see picking up the item (Which is obviously a porno mag hehe) and stuffing it down your pants :stuck_out_tongue:

Point is
THE ACT OF BUILDING A CASE WHEN TRADING, Psychologically, gets you to

  • Cover all bases

  • before make a decision you make CONCRETE REASONS as to WHY you are doing it

now. this is not flawless, but… when you trade incorrectly… YOU NOW HAVE A ROCK SOLID REASON WHY YOU FAILED
as opposed to … I’m not really sure

so consider PROVING THE CASE to yourself before placing the trade

me personally
i don’t just write it down
i video myself
i use 2 video capture softwares

i use Debut Video capture to record my desktop (you can also use Camtasia if you like, but Rendering time is a pain)

i also use another one (forgot the name) not to record, but to just access my webcam so i have a box
on the desktop that i can see myself in

that way when debit video records the desktop

it records me and the charts and i basically just speak to myself on the camera and tell myself why i believe that this trade will be successful

now if i stuff up later
i go back and revisit the recording

this helps immensely in my opinion

be cool