Do you have a proper risk/reward ratio?

This thread is not meant to start a discussion on what the proper risk/reward ratio is as there is no right answer to this question as with so many other parts of trading, but I wanted to remind new traders to at least take a look at their own risk/reward ratios as it is part of an overall complete trading approach. You will probably read in many places that a 2:1 ratio is the best. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with and think everyone needs to make that call, but I think the 2:1 may be the most commonly used one. I am not one of those who sticks to 2:1.

Just take a look at what you are comfortable with any maybe it is a good idea to look back through your closed trades and trade set-ups in order to see if you actually used your ratio or if you ended up with a different ratio. You may be surprised at the results you will find.

Totally agree with you mate. As you get better at trading you realise how personal everything is, some people are more comfortable with low R:R high probability trading (although I have the feeling that these systems are harder to trade as you have to be right consistently, leaving you more open to emotional errors). I personally like very high R:R low probability systems as it forces me to accept my losses more and I don’t lose control during drawdowns making them worse because I am expecting quite long losing streaks anyway haha.

One way to compare systems with differing R:R and probabilities is through a calculation for expectancy(the average amount gained on each trade).

(R:R x Pwin)- Ploss

So for a system with 40% win 60% loss and 2:1 R:R would be

(2x0.4)-0.6=0.2

and a system with a a 3:1 R:R 30% win and 70% loss would be

(3x0.3)-0.7= 0.2

This was mainly just to show how R:R only really matters in combination with the probability of success of each trade, and that you can achieve the same results in the long run with different styles of trading.

Also to answer your question on whether I stick to my R:R ratios, simply put…no I don’t…haha…I will usually only exit half my position at my R:R target although I may exit earlier sometimes (move my SL to BE after 2 or 3:1 RR reached and then have quite a conservative trailing stop, which I will then use to exit the rest of my position after exiting half at my TP). I also dont have a set R:R for each trade, but I will only take trades with at least 10:1 R:R.

On my side I should say I am getting reward from forex , although its ratio is not much high but it is better than any other business. I am getting more than 10% out of my investment . I feel contented on this reward because my risk ratio is also medium ,I never trade in high risks .

Personally, I think 10% gain is excellent. What period is this based on? Monthly, yearly?

Although this thread started a few years back it is still a very valid and important issue.

On one hand a proper risk/reward ratio is an extremely important element in managing profitability and consistency over a longer timescale as well as for measuring and monitoring the success of a particular trading strategy.

On the other hand, it is not the only parameter for optimising a trading strategy, for example, selecting the most appropriate trading times for a particular strategy can have a major bearing on the success rate for a given ratio.

There is also a danger in placing too much rigidity in implementing a set risk/reward ratio. Even when the levels are pre-set automatically with the trade entry they should always be reviewed as to whether the levels make sense with regard to S/R levels and so on.

Using a risk/reward ratio is a crucial part of long-term successful trading but it should be understood and managed just as much as the trade entry decision itself.

It would be interesting to hear how other traders manage (or not) their risk/reward…

I don’t intend this to sound “critical” or “caustic” at all, but it strikes me that discussing R:R ratios without taking both win-rates and trade-frequency equally into account is the same as looking at the potential profitability of playing poker for a living by looking at “how big the pots you win” are (compared with the ones in which you lose money) without also looking at [B]how many[/B] of them you win (not to mention how often you play).

What matters (given reasonable/viable trade-frequency that suits you) is [U]expectancy[/U].

R:R ratios are half of the expectancy calculation. The other half is win-rates.

Given equal trade-frequencies, you make nearly three times as much money with a R:R ratio of 3.0 and a win-rate of 40% as you do with a R:R of 0.75 and a win-rate of 70%. Does that mean that higher R:R ratios are better?

Similarly, you make nearly three times as much money with a R:R ratio of 0.75 and win-rate of 80% as you do with a R:R ratio of 2.8 and a win-rate of 30%. Does that mean that lower R:R ratios are better?

In several standard beginners’ textbooks like Van Tharp’s [I]Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom[/I], accredited authors explain why the practical realities predicate that in the long run, systems with lower win-rates are actually more likely to prove profitable over the longer term (it’s counter-intuitive, to many people, but it’s technically correct).

What they tend to overlook, to some extent, is that for aspiring (i.e. not very experienced and/or perhaps not very statistically/probabilistically sophisticated) traders, high win-rates - and concommitantly lower R:R ratios - are [B]far[/B] easier to trade, because with those methods, the potentially adverse impact of inappropriate position-sizing (to which such aspiring traders are particularly prone) is [U]significantly[/U] mitigated. It’s for this reason that I instinctively wince when I see people saying that “you need a R:R ratio of at least 2:1”.

My own background made this rather a surprise to me: I originally learned how to trade under the supervision of institutional and ex-institutional traders together with input from devouring what some people would consider “heavyweight” textbooks. It literally [I]never occurred to me[/I] that high R:R ratios could be an advantage. Much later, when I started looking at trading-related websites and forums - in other words when I started noticing internet “information” - I realised with some surprise that “most people” seem to think higher R:R ratios are a good idea, and regularly offer that principle as “advice”. I sometimes wonder how appropriate it really is.

(Edited to add: if anyone’s interested, the R:R ratio for most of the systems I use, myself, is [U]well[/U] below 2:1, and for many of them it’s below 1:1, and that gives me high win-rates, and a smooth equity-curve with low drawdowns. Drawdown sizes have always been [I]hugely[/I] important to me, because I’m [I]extremely[/I] risk-averse and see all trading as inherently being about risk-management rather than about profit-maximisation: if you have a genuine edge, know what you’re doing, and just concentrate on “not losing money”, then you’ll make a living. That’s my perspective. I accept, of course, that it isn’t everyone’s.)

I agree with you Lexys , i have tried them all and i now look to get X amount of pips per month and not worry about R.R or win rate. This for me eliminates added pressure put on my self, it works great for me.

I think this is an extremely valuable contribution to this discussion. Naturally, a risk/reward ratio is a crucial concept because it forces one to focus on the need to analyse the relationship between potential profit and loss - but it should not be simply a mechanical number that is applied whenever one happens to jump into a trade.

Risk/reward is one of a whole range of risk management tools that a trader should develop. But only one. I could imagine that every trading method/system comprises both weak and strong trade set-ups. And regardless of the ratios one uses, the win/loss probability is maybe the most important component of a trading decision. From what I have read even just on this forum, perhaps the greatest contributing factor to losses, and even total account loss, is the trader themselves. Pulling the trigger is [I]the [/I]critical decision point in any trade and it should always be based on good set-ups, suitable market times, awareness of data releases and so on.

Two other factors in deciding on a suitable risk/reward ratio are:

  1. That it should be moulded to the trading method being used. For example, a system that is designed to pick up longer term trends should not be a 1:1 as this would limit gains considerably and destroy the optimal performance of the system. At the other extreme, a short term scalper would not necessarily look for 1:3 ratio as this often put stops too close to the current price.

  2. For the same reasons, the ratio should also be tailored to the normal expectation from the timeframe being traded. The longer the timeframe the greater the profit potential v. the appropriate loss level.

I think it is good practice for traders to develop a “nose” for a good risk/reward ratio without specific ratio numbers by focussing on the chart itself and identifying the likely profit potential v. the distance to the nearest logical stop level and weighing up whether the trade makes sense.

I do not personally have a fixed ratio. I usually trade in a 5m-1hr timeframe and I first appraise the overall current volatility of the market (nothing more sophisticated than the general length of candles), then look at the strength and quality of the trade set-up from my trade method, then look for the likely profit target v. stop level - and then assess the quality of the trade as a potential winner and whether it is actually “worth doing”. Kind of subjective, but I don’t really like mechanical trading where a trade entry is executed simply because a couple of lines happen to cross or hold and a fixed ratio sets the target and stop - that’s a bit boring and, for me anyway, reduces the pleasure of seeing a well-thought-out trade strategy actually complete. I guess that is a kind of hunting instinct based on sound strategic planning - which actually has an added benefit of reducing spontaneous trading, overtrading and other “sinful” practices! :smiley:

All new traders should trade with a R:R of 1:1. (I may be a newbie, but I’m not a new trader :59:) This is the fastest/easiest way to know if your strategy has an edge, because your trades will not take as long to complete and all you have to do is see if most of your trades are winning or loosing. In the end, the only thing that matters is entry. Any strategy that has an edge will make money with any not too crazy R:R (although I would not recommend anything below 1:1 though). You can even trend follow with 1:1. Simply by entering a new trade when your first profit is reached. It’s all exactly the same and this risk/reward talk is unproductive. It doesn’t help you garner trading skills and market insight.
Sorry, but this is just my opinion.

I think RR means nothing by itself. Has to be measured along with the win rate. Basically I dig what lexys had to say. RR & win rate should be taken into account, so that you will know the expectancy. Me myself. I’m doing 1:1 RR with a good win rate. So am expecting to cut my losses and cut my profit if the situation call for it. Also, I find that anyone can enter the market to win or lose money. But most importantly is what you do during the trade which will be the major difference between a consistent trader and … . this is just my opinion. Traded for 1 month plus now

Yeah, ofcourse lexys is right. RR and win rate can never be separated from each other, it’s basic math. However, I don’t think you should cut anything before it hits your target as then you are messing with your trading plan. It should all be calculated in before you make the trade. If you cut your losses or profits before it hits your targets then you haven’t placed them right at the level you were comfortable with in the first place. But I trade binaries so I don’t have to deal with all that. Although I do have to deal with expiry time but in the end it’s not very different from 1:1 RR in which the horizontal time distance from my targets should be about the same level as the vertical price distance I would place my stop in spot forex. (I have traded spot also before, but have found it not any less or more profitable than binaries.)

I like anyone here, i am in it to make a living period. A RR and win rate for me is a guide line that can be changed when the trade makes a turn that is not in the plan. Sometimes things happens that are not on the chart or history of the pair , so what is one to do stay with it knowing that you are going to get a beaten !! or because your going to stay fast with your plan regardless , not me i am out and rethink the trade because i can always can go back in it. Just my two cents and there is no one right answer.

With the market being a market . I wouldn’t tell the market what it should or should not do. I just see and read the price and act accordingly.

The Proper risk:reward ratio clearly depends on your strategy. If your strategy has good winning probability, you can even go for 1:1 ratio.
I use keylevel breakouts strategies for risk reward ratio.
The probability of my strategy is 60 to 65% atleast. Based on this I decide the strategy.
You can check the full research on The Plan how to make money in forex using Risk reward ratio with any strategy.