Hello guys,
I looked on the internet for Expert Advisors and found many options - ranging from free to costing several hundred dollars. So I thought people probably create their own, this is what I see here too.
I see there are many free options like fxDreema and some sites even without a real name… also paid ones like Forex Strategy Builder or StrategyQuant.
What are you using guys? What are the pros and cons of your approach?
When I first started building algorithmic systems, I tried a drag and drop EA builder called Molanis. It essentially replaces blocks of code with graphical modules that you link together to build your strategy. Pros - cheap, easy to learn. Cons - you don’t get the flexibility that you get from learning to write code. I believe Dukascopy’s JForex platform has a similar free graphical strategy builder.
If I had my time over again, I wouldn’t bother with these EA builders and would just bite the bullet and learn to code. While this requires an investment in time, it will be worth it in the long run. The skills you learn will enable your strategy design to be limited only by your imagination. You will also develop a much better knowledge of the systems you develop, how they work and why they work. In my opinion, EA builders are a shortcut, and in my experience shortcuts in trading don’t lead anywhere you really want to go.
For a softer introduction to strategy design and programming, check out the Zorro Project (google it). I am not affiliated in any way with this project, but I do use it for strategy design and testing.
I use fxDreema, as you can imagine 
I just registered here so I can answer to questions about it, like this one. I also have another accout, but it’s not really recognizable.
Ok, to the pros and cons of using an EA builder:
It’s much easier to do some strategy if the EA builder has all the needed parts, because you can add/remove parts of the strategy in seconds, while in MQL4 it takes time and efforts to always cut/copy/paste/debug code.
In the same time, EA builders are not that flexible if you want to do something very specific. Sometimes it’s easier to write 5 lines of code instead of connecting multiple graphical blocks if there is no one specially designed for the situation. For example, try to build the EA that people use to generate Renko charts, in EA builder. Good luck, it’s too specific.
You don’t have to deal with the weird specifics of MQL4 and especially MQL5. Just look at the forums in mql4.com and mql5.com, there are many people asking for various weird problems all day long. Well, EA builders probably have their own problems sometimes
EA builders produce bigger source code, if you ever want to look at it. But that’s fine, because MetaTrader does not really care if you have 100, 1000 or 10000 lines of code, it’s still few kilobytes
EA builders can be better at opening/modifying/closing trades and orders for real accounts. Once I wrote simple code for a friend and he used it with his real account. Everything was good until the broker produced some error. The EA had weak logic, I never considered this scenario while writing this EA, so his account was blown away in no time.
I think that creators of EA builders are regular people, not big companies. Some of them leave their project soon after launching it. It’s also not unexpected to see bugs here are there, but if there is someone behind the project that is still active, he will probably fix everything as soon as it is reported.
I totally agree with RobotCapital that it’s better to know how to program, at least the basics. You still need you to have logical thinking when working with EA builders. Well, I don’t know for StrategyQuant, it’s somehow different and I never tried it
Wait a second, I know who you are 
И даже можем да си говорим на нашия език 
What I really like in Forex Strategy Builder is the ability to see results immediately without the need to click the “Start” button in MetaTrader over and over again. But it’s so fast that I always wonder whether the result is real or not In any case, this is something that I want to do for fxDreema.
fxDreema is the only program to use. Bro you’re a genius.
Ok so alot will say learn to code yourself but as a armchair speculator you have far better things to do than learn coding. And you dont have to. With software like fxdreema your possibilities are almost endless. Once you get into and play abit you quickly learn its power.
Robotcapital, I totally agree with you on the above. With more than a decade in hobby and professional programming, I can confirm that “coding” gives you much greater insight for life and the things in it. Especially in the area you are programming for. If you have to program for Forex this is also true. It is very strange to see for example bugs in other people’s products and know why they happen.
I do work with someone who did what you said - took the time (more than 10 years) to code by himself for Forex and his expertise is very easy to see. The clarity, that going in the depths gives, is immense. However, not everyone has the time to do it by himself. And it is not right for everyone to do it.
People can use leverage, as they have it on Forex. This is why we have software - to spare the time that already someone invested.
That is absolutely true, this is why many EA builders fail too. Too weak logic and no ability to handle extremes.
- I think that creators of EA builders are regular people, not big companies. Some of them leave their project soon after launching it. It’s also not unexpected to see bugs here are there, but if there is someone behind the project that is still active, he will probably fix everything as soon as it is reported.
Most of them probably are. But not always the case.
Anyway… A big problem arises with indicators, which redraw past signals. There are such indicators in even MT itself. This is why some programs, do not use external indicators at all and this results in greater amount of MQL in the EA.
I don’t feel like bashing on MT or something, they have done a great job, but people who do use it for backtesting are putting their money on a very shaky ground.
I mean would you bet on how hot or cold it is outside when your thermometer is broken?!
The immediate results in Forex Strategy Builder are because the backtester uses a faster algo than in MT. MT itself is a trading platform, not a backtesting one. It is understandable why their tool is not the fastest one in the world.
I never heard of other backtester (except the one in FSB) that does show if your strategy has you ambiguous bars. Those are bars where the backtester can not determine the path of the price and there are (at least) several “possible scenarios” for the movement of the price within the bar. This is important because in such bars can make or break your profits. (Example - does the price hit your Take Profit first or your Stop Loss? )
MT’s backtester always uses only one “scenario” and it’s logic can be exploited to create EAs that have at the very least “overly optimistic” results.
Now we’re sterotyping EA’s. Bots can be used for many things. Their use is limited only by one imagination. My use well I’ll let the orginal turtles sum it up
"There is no substitute for statistically valid historical research when developing mechanical trading systems. In practice, this means learning how to program a computer to run simulations of trading system performance."
The key, developing mechanical trading systems. As an armchair speculator, if I’m to compete with the real players, then I need several trading systems. Not the singular trading system that bounces around these forums. These take time to develop. Time i dont have. Being able to use a program such as fxdreema enables me to quickly program my ideas to assess their potential as a mechanical system. Thus focusing my time where it’s needed.
Now from my experience, indicator based strategies always fail. Its called chaos theory. However systems based on PA show greater long term potential. The ability of fxDreema to reference many price levels, trade actions, account details and the list go on is unique. It allows me to smash together a bot in 10mins and be testing. Evauating potential. Its part of the process.
Strange thing is, once a system has been developed and the rules defined in ones trading plan. Logic dictates it should then be able to be programmed as an EA. Maybe this is when it’s time to call in the services of a professional programmer.
bobbillbrowne, I agree with you about the coding part… With fxdreema you can make custom blocks, so basically everything is possible. Saying “you need to understand the code to make good eas” is same as saying “you must be able to build a computer in order to use one”.
However, I disagree with the chaos theory. Chaos theory only makes the holy grail (100% profit with no dd) impossible.
Indicators, for example 14-rsi are wathced by many people -> they have psychological effect to market -> they tell something about the market (they aren’t always right, but in some cases the probability is over 50%) -> indicators can make good trading rules.
Building really profitable eas is not easy though, and about 95% of indicator-based eas don’t make profit in the long run.
This is a great thread! I really appreciate the balanced points of view offered by the posters - even those that have an affiliation with the software. I guess when it comes down to it, the proof is in the pudding. If you can build profitable systems with an EA builder, then more power to you! Is anyone willing to confirm that they are successfully trading a system that they built with an EA builder? This is something that I wasn’t able to achieve, however I do trade successful systems that I developed through a coding approach.
Bobbillbrowne - I get what you’re saying about being an armchair speculator and short on time, but I contend that your money is on the line! How can you afford an approach that takes shortcuts? I started as an armchair speculator myself, and one that was exceptionally short on time. The end result of this situation was that it took me a couple of years to develop my first profitable system. If I wasn’t short on time, I think I could’ve done it in perhaps six months, but the effort expended would have been the same. The point is, don’t opt for a shortcut. Take the time and expend the effort to do it properly, even if it means you require years instead of months to get the result you are after. I’m not trying to shoot anyone down here, just relaying advice in line with my own experience.
“Indicators fail. Its called chaos theory.” Can you expand on this? Chaos theory applied to the markets is something I’m very interested in. Not sure what you mean by this, but would like to find out.
[B]First of all Merry Christmas![/B] :7:
Is anyone willing to confirm that they are successfully trading a system that they built with an EA builder?
A week ago I had a skype conversation with one of Forex Strategy Builder’s year-long users, also a part-time programmer on the project. The guy was able to triple his account over 2 months. Period.
Other than that, over the 8 years that the program is online (for free download) numerous users have claimed profits. You can see this on the program’s forums.
If I wasn’t short on time, I think I could’ve done it in perhaps six months
People claim to save months on development by investing only a few days with the same software I mentioned.
The point is, don’t opt for a shortcut. Take the time and expend the effort to do it properly, even if it means you require years instead of months to get the result you are after.
I agree - you don’t need to blow all your savings in the first 90 days of your Forex career. There are things that can help you along the way. However, I reckon a “hardcore” coding approach will make it slower to get where you’re headed at.
Can’t say that I have ever built a successful EA. But I haven’t followed through on one. We talk of time and by my estimates it would take years to develop a fully automated system from scratch. Then again it takes just as long to learn how to trade. One of the challenges I faced was that I learnt how to use these compilers before I learnt “how” to trade. But now I’ve learnt to trade a bit better and because of a recent connection I’m coming back to the bots to automate my processes. Automation in business is good.
“Indicators fail. Its called chaos theory.” Can you expand on this? Chaos theory applied to the markets is something I’m very interested in. Not sure what you mean by this, but would like to find out.
So we won’t hijack this thread with chaos and the marketplace. Although I do agree it would be a interesting thread. But I did make the statement so I’ll try and explore it in context. Chaos theory studies the behavior of complex dynamic systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. Such small variations in initial conditions yield widely diverging outcomes for such said complex dynamic systems rendering long term prediction impossible in general. Probably best summarized by Edward Lorenz:
When the present determines the future, but the approximate present does not approximately determine the future
As programmers/compilers/technical speculators we are automatically presuming that the marketplace is a complex dynamic systems and as such by measuring the relationship of price vs time we can predict future movement. But chaos says that any small variations in initial conditions will yield our predictions useless. So when defining our algo’s we must eliminate any element that introduces a variation. One of the best sources of variations is numerical computations. What are most indicators, numerical computations. So IMO and experience, robots build on strategies dependent on technical indicator relationships are doomed to failure. However bots that define processes over relationships have a far greater ability to automate a traders work. So now this is my pursuit in bot building.
This is what I personally like about fxDreema. In a drag n drop environment I can build and define my processes without the need to learn how to program.
Hello bobbillbrowne,
This statement you gave above sounds very interesting but I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you please give some real-life examples of “bots that define processes” and how they work?
Thanks
I have read a lot and I can see that the free Expert Advisors may not give you amount you are targeting. I am looking for a trustworthy forex software programmer that can create an efficient expert advisors for me.
So your processes should be well defined in your trading plan. You know, that big document most traders don’t have that define every aspect of your trading. But whats a process. My opinion, a set of interrelated dependent/independent tasks that transforms inputs into outputs. So a single process has a series of relationships that interact to produce a desired outcome. These relationships can quite often be processes in their own right. Relationships of relationships. My experience was that i focused on these relationships rather than their interaction, the process.
Can I give you an example well no. I’m focused on one thing me. My really big document is actually quite small. It needs to get a lot bigger, and it is, every day as I develop it. A process in itself. But as each new process is defined in my trading plan it can be coded in mq4. Can software like fxDreema or FSB be used to developed such a bot. Maybe they can maybe they can’t. But I can save a hell of a lot of money if I can go to the pro’s saying I have this code but it needs to do this can you help.
Good point! I can see that there would be efficiencies using this approach.
The beginner programmer could also use this approach to keep their trading system development moving forward while they developed coding skills in parallel.
Thank you for this excellent discussion.
Could you please tell me the name of the discussion about this EA in particular?
Thank in advance