GBP/JPY: Winning Strategies

Re Andrew’s post #193, the h&s on the UJ daily … I finally see it (with some help from re-reading about chart patterns). I didn’t know they could be formed from so few candles. It looks like the high of Aug 25 made a better right shoulder than the 22 high.

So, if I am doing this right the neckline is around 108.07 … so that would have to be broken for a good short setup? If the UJ falls, the guppy usually falls as well, so a descent to and break of that neckline would pull the guppy well below the 200 … I would think.

(that is wierd … earlier today I had over 890 posts … and when I first posted this one it was number 886! Maybe some of my posts have been deleted and subtracted from the total? BP works in mysterious ways…)

Hi 4Star, there are different entry levels for Kings Crown/H&S, you dont have to wait for the neckline to be broken.
See chart below.


You posted the EUR/USD chart ?? We were talking about UJ.

[B]This just in from FX Daily:[/B] they are saying all yen crosses due to implode over next few weeks…
Here’s comment on guppy:

[I]We maintain that the GBPJPY is headed lower in a 5th wave that will end below 192.60. Weakness from 215.83 may be nearing a medium term low (shown above), although there is the possibility of weakness extending from current levels. In such a case (extension), price would remain below 204.57 and continue on lower in a 3rd wave. A push through 204.57 would indicate to us that a larger correction, perhaps back to 207.25 or higher, is underway. [/I]

Check out their thread for more commentary and charts. Seems to confirm what we’ve been saying in here.

Read the post again. I’m just showing you a different entry level for H&S, it doesnt matter which chart it is same rules apply. You dont have to wait for the neck to be broken to enter, you can on reversal candle formations at “4” as shown on the chart posted.

Oh, ok now I see what you’re saying … if after the right shoulder there is another good entry signal like the long bearish engulfing candle, safe enough to start there instead of waiting…

If there is a H & S on the daily, and the right shoulder forms, can you zoom into 60 min or even 15 min to watch for candle signals to go short? Or is it better to stick with the same timeframe the original H & S was identified?

Yes you can zoom in to lower TFs and look for an entry. The SL should be above the right tip, so in a case where the SL is too huge say on a 4 chart you could switch to 1H for an entry and put you SL above the last high on the 1H.

Great … thanks for that tip … we still have to get together on Skype :slight_smile:

what I’d like is for her to tag that upper descending trendline at around 202.27, then I could load up on a short.

That is precisely what I am anticipating, a slight retrace to the 202.2 level and than down we go. I suspect we touch if not breach 200, but strong resitance will keep her from going much lower.

There is nothing i can forsee which leads me to believe there is going to be a retrace to the 207 area at the moment.

Hey, welcome cdawg! You are a good guppy-movement-caller so glad you are sharing your ideas. And also I’m glad my projection was correct. Maybe I am learning :smiley:

You are a good guppy-movement-caller so glad you are sharing your ideas.

Oh I’m still trying to learn her secrets too…

In these types of price conditions you don�t really need to project.

You don�t need to plot, work out complicated wave structures, get all tangled up with fibonacci grids or even refer to pattern formations if you don�t care to. All you require is the basic & natural flow of (momentum) peak-trough behavior.

You�re certainly going to require a definitive trend to be in place, such as we�ve had on this pair for the past 2 weeks, & occasionally you�ll get unseated due to increased volatility (dependant on your timeframe) around a unique or specific event. But in strong one-way flows, your most trusted friend is the sheer strength of fear or greed. That virtually always manifests itself via the peak-trough behavior.

Your stops & add-in entries will take place at or near the previous lower high marker. That will be your alarm signal to warn you of a potential change in momentum.

Unless that 1st line of defense is hurdled, the flows remain bearish & the selling of rallies remains the value option.

Eventually momentum will begin to subside & conflicting signals will appear. Lower highs will be negated, so too will lower lows. Unless it�s a violent & aggressive spike reversal, price will settle into a defined range or consolidation phase (basing).

That�s the time to maybe look at switching your strategies & adjusting the parameters to suit the changing conditions.


Hi All,

I really enjoy reading your thread and I do take a lot from it - hope to contribute as well.

Watching this decending triangle forming and waiting in anticipation for the break…


Sorry, this chart should be easier on the eye…


Right, that’s why I was so proud of it … all I used was a candle chart (on 3 timeframes) and my own s/r lines … and, ok, I confess … a couple of trendlines which I know you don’t use!

In retrospect, on your chart or mine, it is so clear to see what was happening, my problem is seeing it in the moment. I have been short off & on for a couple of weeks and for the most part have been shorting rallies … but … a few times I shorted before the rally peak and got stopped out, or thought she was reversing when she wasn’t.
However … these past 2 weeks are the best I have ever played her, too many times before I would find myself in the wrong way & wondering what happened :smiley:
Now I am beginning to ‘see’ the bigger picture (which was always there in front of me, just too hidden by indicators, probably!) but … I still am not catching the moves as well as could be.
I suppose … maybe drawing a resistence line above the last high and when she does not touch it on a retracement, on a 15 min chart, I wait for a reversal candle and then short … or go short on the first candle after the new pivot lower high? Looking back, I see it so clearly … why can’t I see it that way in real time???

Experience… (sigh…)

She is doing her retracement dance again as I type … let’s see if I can catch this one right! :cool:

Hi & welcome ryan, we are all here to learn how to tame our guppy-gal and her assorted cousins … because these pairs give a wild ride but, when you are doing it right, a very profitable one :cool:

As I said below to Jo, it is so easy to see what was happening after the fact … I look at that chart now and think, why didn’t I just get one short position on Monday and just hold on (while trading other positions in & out). Instead somehow I think I let myself still be too influenced by what ‘others’ are saying … so I was afraid she was really reversing several times and either got stopped out or took profits too soon…

Arrghhh … but, with practice I’m sure performance will improve … :slight_smile:

And the more eyes we have watching her … the better, IMO. That’s why we’re here.

Thought it was a good idea to bring this post back to the fore as a reminder about 201-201.40. This isn’t predictive of a bottom, but certainly worthy of taking note of and writing up on our charts given the pushback @ 201 this morning and in this overall zone since 0500 ET (1H candle) yesterday. Again, a break below 201 has important consequences: ideally a move to 200 or so.

4xStar, about the above paragraph: that came off unintentionally as esoteric because it’s a syntactic jumble. My fault. :wink: Try this: “Remember that whatever does not confirm a reversal in a trend is merely a pullback in a trend.” This corresponds exactly with what Jocelyn just posted. Discriminating between reversals and pullbacks/retracements/throwbacks may seem like so many shades of gray, but it can be done reliably and profitably.

The first goal is not to be faked out of a winning trade that will continue on its way after a temporary reprieve by being scared into flattening or reversing your position on that pullback. Learning to stay in when the pair begins to move against you is a function of knowing when a contrary movement should be considered an ephemeral thing about to be negated by a resumption of the trend in your direction; and after what point you ought to stop and reverse or flatten your position to consider if a true reversal is in the offing.

The second goal is to take on additional benefits to your winning trade from the pullbacks. These are scale-in points where you can add cumulatively to your existing position, or maintain your existing position while taking down profit from shorter-term trades as these pullback positions come into profit on resumption of the trend.

As I write we have an intraday dip below 201 - not the long hammer from 0900 ET (1H candle) yesterday, but a decremental step down in keeping with the prevailing trend. Whether that will hold below 201 is the question.

I agree, it�s not easy. You�ll get unseated plenty of times trying to get a hold of a value position if your stops are too tight on a volatile pair such as GBPJPY, which is why I don�t like playing it from a purely intraday angle very often.

Also, the horizontal line or zones won�t always play ball either. Like anything else out there, they�re just guides to offer you a little geography. They�re not set in stone or a guaranteed profit card. Sometimes you�ll get a nice clean sweep thru the swing zones where the peaks/troughs are all neat & tidy. Other occasions it�ll be a btich to trade with irregular & out of step swing zones up & down the ladder.

But that�s life. That�s why when things go favorably for an entry or an add-in, you must take advantage of it & milk the position.

Even when you get unseated a couple times attempting to get aboard, as long as the reasons for initiating the trade in the first place remain valid, you continue to honor your view/analysis until it no longer holds water.

It�s a game of value & compromize. When you get the value you compound the crap out of it until it turns on you.

When things fail to go your way, you compromize. That might be via lowering your potential profit sights or reducing your size until you get a clearer view of the landscape etc.

80% of your long term profits will generally come from 20% of your key trades. But you absolutely got to honor your trusted strategy, set-ups & triggers. If folks are thrashing around chopping & changing their pitch every 5 minutes they’re going to miss out on the major deals.

Value & compromize!!

Beware the thoughts of others! :eek: We’ve talked about this before, and it is a very important point. Reading the sentiment expressed by other traders/market watchers is an insidious thing because of how it can dilute the potency of our own analysis. Whether you’re wrong or right, it is at least important be resolute, not waffling about with no real idea, but placing trades with a thousand conflicting thoughts from myriad voices in your head. Much of the time I pay no attention whatever to analytical commentary from others, whether in forums or from news outlets.

Here’s a post from my blog back in April on this very point. A little long and wordy; but then that’s nothing new, right? :smiley:

[B]Selective (Market) Ignorance[/B]

Price action is the single inherent function of the marketplace: fractal in scope, present at all times in the tension between divergent perceptions of value and the streaming drama of supply and demand. Each trader is a free agent acting within a seamlessly fluid environment where mass alignment and antagonism build and collapse out of the limitless, blurred disparity of the market’s individual participants. Put simply, price is the single-point description of the cacophonous din of the market crowd.

This week [this is from early April 2008] brought with it significant short-term moves for the USD and JPY that, taken in the isolation of the timeframe in which they occurred, are contrarian in direction but do little to subvert the prevailing long-term outlook for them. Countertrends, then, which are nothing atypical. The concrete analytical rationale for these temporary retracements in price action are very important to observe and study. Whether you employ a methodology yielding trend-following trades, countertrending movements, or both, it is all too commonplace for a trade to get stopped out at the very bottom of a pullback, whipsawed, or otherwise derailed by a momentary hesitation in price which then resolves itself into the direction you initially anticipated. All of this is why placing stops is so often referred to as an art; but this isn�t about placing stops, although the non-perfunctory, situational manner in which they ought to be placed (and which makes them so difficult to get right) tells us a lot about the structure of the marketplace.

Getting back to the examples from this week, notice the common perception of the USD and JPY: generally, the USD is thought to be on an at least medium-term depreciative march across the board, while the JPY has been advancing steadily against all the majors (though it mostly neutral vis-a-vis the Euro). Certainly the consensus of economic data corroborates, and our charts plainly bear out the psychological bias reflected everywhere from the COT to any number of blogs or message boards.

In this market context of mass alignment, taking a trade that creates disparity and antagonizes the sentiment of the crowd, even if you�re reliably certain of its positive outcome, is very difficult and can be full of misgivings when you know the spoken bias of the market is against your own analysis. Is this an incontrovertible sign you�re wrong? No, but it�s immensely challenging to suppress the notion that you are. Even if you do take the trade, the likelihood you will maintain your position if it goes against you initially is probably much lower because it will be immediately perceived as an affirmation of the bias you�re opposing. Nevertheless, this week (Friday aside) there were some excellent trade opportunities across the market long the USD and short the JPY (note: this isn’t a reference to USD/JPY, as such). Again, nothing atypical.

I do not recommend reversing positions anticipating retracements, picking tops and bottoms, trading countertrend or ignoring the wider sentiment of the market: that�ll get anyone killed almost as quickly as throwing a suitcase of trading capital off a bridge, no matter how adept the analyst. What I am getting at is this: where an analysis of price that is our own (based off raw chart and statistical economic data only) is then informed by a perception of the mass consciousness and collective bias of the market, that perception can and does induce faulty analysis and irrational decisions. Sometimes, without the perception, trades we would�ve been scared out of are taken for hundreds of pips, or trades we would�ve been certain of on the basis of wider market bias almost immediately proceed to our stop price.

Ignoring the market is not an answer; but slavish adherence isn�t either. So, we have to cultivate and keep in mind the practice of another art, easily referred to but difficult to describe: selective ignorance, or the purposive filtering of expressions of sentiment to arrive at a balanced apprehension of the currency or pair analyzed. Paradoxically, conscious selectivity of what one knows and doesn�t know about the market (or anything else, for that matter) begins with acknowledgment that selectivity is necessary, and by development of one�s own faculty of self-awareness to know whether bias or irrationality is present in their analysis.

Okay, well I should say we have that movement below 201 we’ve been talking about! Now, does it take? :confused: :wink:

I love it!! This should be a new expression to add to our trading vocabulary: ‘compound the crap’ or [I]CTC the sucker[/I]!

As in, [I]the guppy is setting up perfectly, I’m going to CTC her now…[/I]:cool:

Actually that just happened on that 04:15 ET 15 min candle … it was all but a neon sign blinking “short me, short me”. I should have CTC’d it , but I was hesitant and only took one position, but that one paid nicely and I even made myself get out at that doji 45 minutes later … before I probably would have ridden it back up again, wondering where my profits went…

When things fail to go your way, you compromize. That might be via lowering your potential profit sights or reducing your size until you get a clearer view of the landscape etc.

80% of your long term profits will generally come from 20% of your key trades. But you absolutely got to honor your trusted strategy, set-ups & triggers. If folks are thrashing around chopping & changing their pitch every 5 minutes they’re going to miss out on the major deals.

Yes … that last sentence nails one of my major failings … at least up to now. I hope it has changed! I ‘think too much’ and keep re-analyzing everything and especially listening too much to every opinion that comes down the pike…
It doesn’t help that I’m a Gemini with multiple personalities to deal with… :wink:

At the moment I am reading ‘Bird Watching in Lion Country’ and he is mentioning the same thing … how you have to find the balance between complexity and simplicity… and as you said below, honoring your decision until it no longer is valid.

I like the concept of ‘compromising’ … instead of “I was wrong” (when maybe the trade is still valid, just not yet), you say 'I will compromise" … reduce position size, take less profit, etc.
And when you are right … you CTC the sucker! :smiley: :smiley: