Going offshore to escape the CFTC

dbFX is the retail side of Deutsche Bank’s foreign exchange business. (Retail applies to individuals and small institutions.) This is the part of the business that DB is abandoning, permanently it would appear.

There are two other sides to DB’s foreign exchange business: institutional brokerage, and interbank liquidity provider.
In the capacity of interbank liquidity provider, Deutsche Bank is the largest player in the world:

It’s not typical for a major player in the interbank network to engage in retail forex brokerage. Of the top 10 banks in the list above, only Deutsche Bank and Citigroup currently offer retail forex.

In two weeks, Citigroup will be the only one.

US Treasury grants exemption for forex swaps

By Tom Braithwaite in Washington

Published: April 29 2011 21:44 | Last updated: April 29 2011 22:50

The US Treasury has opted to exempt foreign exchange swaps from sweeping new derivatives rules, providing a big victory for dealers and a defeat for the proponents of more far-reaching market reforms.

Last year’s Dodd-Frank regulatory overhaul gave Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, the power to decide that over-the-counter forex swaps and forwards did not need to be subject to the same requirements for clearing and exchange trading as other derivatives.

The decision to exempt them was widely supported by both banks and users of the instruments. Dealers, including Deutsche Bank, and non-financial groups, such as Caterpillar, submitted letters in support of the move, arguing that foreign exchange swaps were qualitatively different from other derivatives.

The issue has achieved totemic significance for reformers who believe that the instruments should be included in the regime and leaving them out creates a loophole. Democratic senators Carl Levin, Maria Cantwell and Tom Harkin all argued strongly against the exemption.

But the Treasury sided with the industry, deciding that the market was “markedly different” from other derivatives – “highly transparent, liquid and efficient”.

It said fixed terms of shorter duration, physical exchange of currency and an existing well-functioning settlement process meant there was no need to drag the instruments into a more restrictive regime. However, they will be subject to the same reporting standards as other derivatives.

“Congress recognised that the foreign exchange swaps and forwards market already reflects many of the Dodd-Frank act’s goals, including high levels of price transparency, effective risk management and electronic trading,” said Mary Miller, assistant Treasury secretary. “We think this narrow slice should be exempted.

“Throughout the financial crisis the foreign exchange swaps and forward markets continued to operate.”

Dennis Kelleher, chief executive of Better Markets, which advocates tougher financial reforms, said the Treasury’s exemption was the “starting gun for the financial wizards on Wall Street to let their creative juices flow and figure out how many products they can cram through the loophole”.

Some observers have suggested that it might be possible to disguise different contracts as foreign exchange swaps to benefit from the lighter-touch regulatory regime. Ms Miller said it would be highly difficult “and illegal” to try to use the determination as a loophole for other types of derivative.

The “proposed determination” gives another opportunity for public comment but it is widely expected to be the final word on the issue.

Richard Prager, head of global trading at BlackRock, said the “very sensible and balanced decision” was welcome. Clearing for foreign exchange swaps did not make sense as they were not “credit intensive and [did not include] a lot of long dated maturities”, he said.

James Kemp, head of the Global FX Division, an industry lobby group, said European regulators should follow the lead of the US in exempting the instrument.

FT.com / FT Trading Room - US Treasury grants exemption for forex swaps

Time to modify “The List” again. Just got off the phone with FXCBS, wanting to know if they take US clients since I will soon be an ex-dbFXer… They do not…I am getting SO fed up with trying to find a non-US broker that has easy (24hr, 800 or US based phone number) contact.

aaron2995,

Well…now that Forex is not involved in the Dodd-Frank act…there will be many changes and offshore dealers will freely accept USA clients now (they may not solicate it though)…The cat and mouse game and the “don’t-ask -and-don’t-tell” should end…

As traders at least we do not need to worry about breaking any laws now…Just pay your taxes…That is what this is all about anyways…

This is cause for celebration!

ElectricIsHetroSexualButHisForexIsCompletleyOutOfTheClosetSavant

P.S. During this entire fiasco HotForex opened accounts for USA residents…and the great thing about them is that they do not charge any fees for both deposits and withdrawals by CC.

Man, I hope you’re right about all of that. I hate to go negative on you…

But…

Currency swaps — which are the subject of the news item that you quoted — are just one aspect of the foreign exchange (forex) market.

The BIS divides the forex market into 4 parts: Spot Forex, Outright Forwards, Swaps, and Other. Spot forex is further divided into retail spot forex and institutional spot forex. [B]Retail spot forex is our little corner of a very vast market.[/B]

All of our problems with offshore forex accounts, leverage, etc., stem from the CFTC’s heavy-handed regulation of retail spot forex, which was made possible by Congress in a Farm Bill in 2008, not by Dodd-Frank.

[B]Our problems did not originate in the Dodd-Frank legislation,[/B] which was specifically written to get at such things as “collateralized debt” instruments, and other exotic derivatives.

[B]Our nemesis is the CFTC[/B] and their contention that they have some sort of authority over foreign brokers who choose to do business with U.S. residents.

[B]I don’t see how the Treasury Department’s restriction on the implementation of Dodd-Frank will, in any way, stop the CFTC from intimidating offshore retail forex brokers.[/B]

[B]aaron and heparin,[/B]

I will move FXCBS and Hot Forex to page 3 of the List in a few hours, based on the info you have provided.

[B]Re: FXCBS[/B], I tried of open a live account with them a few minutes ago, and found that I cannot enter U.S. citizenship or a U.S. residence address in their application form. (It’s okay if I live in American Samoa, but not in America — does that make any damn sense?)

[B]Jacob (bravehoststamps),[/B] if you’re reading this, please weigh in. Last I heard, you have a live account with FXCBS. Can you add anything here?

[B]Re: Hot Forex[/B], their website is, indeed, gone. As of about 3:30am EDT, a Google search turned up nothing to explain what’s going on. Does anyone have any more details?

HotForex is back up their host went down was their explanation…

Thanks, [B]ES[/B]

I’ll wait a couple of hours, before I reinstate Hot Forex to the “A” List. Maybe [B]heparin[/B] will check back in and let us know whether his account is okay, and his funds are secure.

I have restored [B]Hot Forex (Mauritius)[/B] to the List of brokers who accept U.S. clients (page 2 of the List).

The adjusted count is now: 44 offshore brokers will accept U.S. clients, 48 offshore brokers will not accept U.S. clients.


I guess heparin decided to delete his post without any explanation. Everything must be back to normal at Hot Forex.

Hey guys, been lurking the forums for a couple weeks now as I’ve begun my participation in the forex market and still learning as a newbie. However, this really irks me, being in the U.S. If all offshore brokers decide to not accept U.S citizens, what will you do? I’m pretty good at exploiting loopholes, etc, so I’ll share some ideas:

1.) Couldn’t you just find a trusting friend or family member in one of these foreign countries to open an account for you, with your email address and everything, then give you full account control, thus allowing you to continue trading outside of US rules and regulations?

2.) Videogame companies/services are looking for ways to apply live streaming so that people can play games with superb graphics right from grandma’s computer. You could theoretically apply this to forex trading if laws are/or will be put in place to discourage trading on an account from half the world away. In technical terms, you’d be controlling the account via live stream video and would not be technically in control of the account. Another way to approach this is the ustream method. Have someone open an account for you that resides in a non u.s country, and they live stream the computer screen (with charts on it of course) while you call the shots and tell them when to bid, buyout etc. This method would be indirect control of an account, you’re just simply suggesting that the residing citizen take certain moves. Now this would take a very trusting individual as it would open up plenty possibilities for scams, but hey. Life’s all about risk.

Hope this helps, gives you some ideas if **** hits the fan in regards to us retailer forex capabilities. Any input/comments are more than welcome.

Thanks,
-Altair

I think it is unwise. If it is in their name, then their country’s tax laws require them to report profits on their tax returns. If they do not do that, then they are committing tax evasion in their country.

If they later try to explain that the account was in trust for you, then that also is illegal because they are supposed to disclose that when opening the account.

Also if you fail to report the income, then the U.S. may charge you with tax evasion. By the way the tax authorities never worry about consistency. Both you and your relatives might be prosecuted.

Also if you fail to file form tdf 90-22.1 they prosecute that very vigorously.

Altair,

This thread is basically about sorting out which offshore brokers will do business with us, and which will not. It’s not about finding creative ways to avoid the normal broker-client relationship.

There is another thread — 301 Moved Permanently — where those creative ways are discussed, and maybe your ideas should be explored over there.

I certainly don’t mean to discourage your participation on [I]this[/I] thread — rather, I’m just trying to direct you to some folks who are looking for more than just a cooperative offshore broker.

I have been trading with Forex FS in Australia for several months. Forex FS is ASIC regulated. Their customer support is very good. The only complaint I would have about this broker is the swap fees. Compared with other brokers, Forex FS’s swap fees are on the high side. Notibly, Forex FS offers everything U.S. brokers don’t; hedging, 1:200 leverage, no FIFO.

Hey, Biker

Thanks for the update. I’m glad to know that Forex FS is meeting your expectations.

For you guys who are looking for a reliable offshore broker, check out Australia. It’s a stable, English-speaking country, with a strong currency, and financial regulation that’s top-notch.

And check out Forex FS.

Australia is not an offshore haven.

Here’s a transcript from my conversation with a rep from HotForex, not looking to good. Has anyone else gotten this response?

“John says:
Hello Lynn, We just spoke a moment ago. I have been advised that Hot Forex does accept U.S. Citizens. When did this change?
Lynn (林恩) says:
due to the fact of the regulation change in US. we currently don’t accept any US clients”

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I don’t think I have ever used the phrase “offshore haven” on this thread.

This thread is about [B]offshore brokers[/B], and whether they will open new accounts for U.S. residents.

I don’t think that anyone here in the U.S. would argue with either of these statements:

  1. Australia is offshore.

  2. Forex FS is a broker.

So, again, what is your point?

Hello, John

If HotForex says that [B]they will[/B] open an account for a U.S. resident, are you ready to proceed and open that account?

If you are, then just go ahead and do it. Fill in the application, upload your proof of I.D. and your proof of residence, and then [B]contact HotForex.[/B] Tell them that you have opened an account, and you are ready to fund the account. Ask them to verify that everything is in order and ready to go.

If HotForex says that they have all the required information, and you’re good to go, then fund your account with the minimum opening deposit.


About an hour ago, I opened an account with HotForex, just to see whether I could. Their system didn’t flinch when I entered my citizenship as U.S.A., and gave a U.S. phone number. I did not scan and upload the I.D. and residency proof, so I can’t say for sure that my application has been finally approved. I do, however, have a HotForex account number.

Given the effective job that the CFTC has done intimidating offshore brokers, it may be that some of them are nervous about saying straight-out (via phone, email or chat) that they will open accounts for Americans.

Anyway, if you want an account with HotForex, go for it.

The possibility you might be accepted if you live offshore, is encouraging for me, since I live in Mexico with a Mexican address, bank account, ISP and phone #. However, I would feel more comfortable if we had clear\unchanging guidelines (such as the definition of US citizen, those living in the country; documented US residents (who are citizens of another country), or US citizens living outside the US, as expats). I’ve noticed that some brokers seem like they may be doing a don’t-ask-don’t-tell dance, by not requesting IDs like passports and driver’s licences - only thing is the CFTC could make another pass and eliminate that option for the brokers. Just seems like a repeat of the US brokers setting up ‘offices abroad’ to work around the 1st round of restrictions on US citizens. This, the DBFX move, and the possibility\probability that Dukascopy et al. are expected to exclude US citizens in a few months; makes me hesitant to open accounts with any non-US brokers who are, currently, accepting US citizens. So, unless someone here can shed some light on this fog, I think I’ll be standing aside to let the dust settle… Any insights, or something I’ve overlooked?

Well this IS the internet, and this IS the weekend so you never know.