The CFTC may claim jurisdiction if they can find any shred of evidence that the company has a presence in the U.S. For example, advertising or bank deposits or whatever.
Look at the online poker cases - the U.S. is prosecuting the foreign poker companies on the basis that they conspired with U.S. banks to avoid payment processing restrictions related to unlicensed gambling.
Not only that, they seized their U.S. accounts.
People are just using âoffshoreâ in two different senses.
Australia is not just off the shores of the American continent and used as a tax haven (one meaning of offshore). It is a continent of its own and is also highly regulated as far as forex and other areas.
But they could be considered âoffshoreâ from the U.S. in another vaguer/ more general use of the term.
I do not think there is any real disagreement here.
I am afraid that some may have made an incorrect assumption. Since âoff shoreâ is used so much with âtax havenâ, such as âoff shore tax havenâ that they have come to assume that the two are some how synonymous, they are not. Off shore just means a place that is other than your native country. âTax havenâ on the other hand is a sovereign country that has different tax laws that are better than your original country and are open to non residents to use for their business. So the use of the tern off shore does not have two meanings unless one wishes to give it an incorrect meaning that will only confuse others. Where ever you got that second definition, it is a mistake. It comes with being human.
Wikipedia:
An OFC (offshore financial center) is a country or jurisdiction that provides financial services to nonresidents on a scale that is incommensurate with the size and the financing of its domestic economy.
âAhmed ZoromĂ©, IMF Working Paper/07/87[5
Seems as though some of you newer âNewbiesâ have lost sight of the purpose of this thread. [B]Going off shore to escape the CFTC[/B] was where we would discuss brokers around the world that accept U.S. traders due to the restrictions our government has placed on retail forex trading. It is NOT a thread to discuss going offshore for tax haven purposes. Perhaps a thread titled [B]Going offshore to escape the IRS[/B] would be more appropriate for that discussion.
Right and when the poster said âAustralia is not offshoreâ meaning Australian forex brokers are not tax haven brokers, he was exactly on point for this thread - namely that Australian forex brokers are a great choice for the purpose of escaping CFTC jurisdiction, without needing to resort to a tax haven country.
I do not think he was just arguing about the title of the thread. If he was, then I would not agree with that.
First and foremost props to Clint and others who have contributed to the thread. I must say, retail forex in the US has been gutted as far as I am concerned. I never looked at holding US passport as a liability in this world until now.
Guys I have an issue with VantageFX I am wondering if anyone else had this problem. I filled out the application, send the image copies of passport/utility bill the whole nine yards. When it came to funding the account I get an e-mail saying that because I am a US client I must deposit several thousand dollars instead of the usual $500. Anyone else had this problem? I talked to them over the phone I dont think they would suspect me of being a US government agent of some sort I just dont understand dropping this nonsense on me now. Nobody told me that before.
Welcome to the Forum, Soldier
For some time now, [B]VantageFX (Australia)[/B] has been on our List of offshore brokers who [B]will[/B] open new accounts for U.S. residents.
I donât think that anyone here on this thread has ever discussed the possibility that a broker might impose special hardships on a U.S. resident â for the âprivilegeâ of opening an account.
If VantageFX is, indeed, playing the game that way, then they donât deserve to be on our List.
If weâve made a mistake by including VantageFX on the List, then I will definitely remove them. But first, Iâd like to get some additional info.
[B]If others here on this thread have any experience â good or bad â with VantageFX, please step up and tell us about it. [/B]
I want to add my thanks also to Clint and the others for operating this valuable list which is a great resource!
It was referred to on elitetrader which is where I saw it.
Thanks,
Don
Clint, et al, I would also like to commend the efforts and accomplishments of everyoneâ's participation on this thread. 71 pages and counting with very little animosity, that in itself is an accomplishment worth noting.
I have had a broker require a higher funding amount in times past so that I could be considered a sophisticated trader. I may have the term wrong as it was some time back, but there are levels of sophistication evidently, and some will allow certain options for experienced traders that are restricted to novices. It may be that the higher funding requirement from VantageFX is to be able to reclassify the trader so it would not appear that the broker is recruiting. I donât know this of course, but wanted to point out that there are other possibilities than discrimination against Americans. Discrimination just doesnât seem Ausi to me. Makes me think to look for another cause.
In case VantageFX does not work out, I am looking at Windsorbrokers (Cyprus) Anybody have anything on them (good or bad)?
Hello, [B]forex assistant[/B]
Iâm sure that you are right about the reason for the policy at Vantage.
The CFTC has dictated a threshold dollar-amount which separates âsophisticatedâ traders from the mere masses.
If the report we have from SoldierofFortune represents a policy of VantageFX to do business with Americans ONLY if they are âsophisticatedâ, then Vantage simply isnât the kind of âoffshore brokerâ weâre looking for, and we should delete them from our List.
This thread started out with a nice idea, but it has evolved to being useless. Believe me I mean no disrespect to the thread author or to anybody hereâŠbut I will probably still be criticized for posting the obvious.
AnywaysâŠ
Since dealers from around the world are scared of being accused of solicating, BY JUST HAVING WEBSITES, their official answers to a questioning traders in writing will be a resounding noâŠin their chatrooms or other written communicationsâŠ
Someone posted hereâŠjust apply for an account and see what happensâŠ
ES
P.S. The CFTC does not need the Internet to get a hotlistâŠbut I could imagine if they did use the internet that this thread could be very useful to them.
For the record (mod can update list) Vantage FX (vantagefx.com) DOES NOT ACCEPT U.S. Clients. (I was as disappointed as others here!!) They do offer forex to US clients via their white label Go Markets (gomarketsaus.com) but there is a 50K min opening deposit required. Any good (no withdrawal problems, no account raiding problems) Australian brokers serving US refugees?? (Or swiss) I like the currency conversion benefits.
:33: Is Dukascopy still open for US clients? Min deposit for dukas?
Please dont give up on this thread folks - i think it is needed. Lets make the knowledge share better notâŠPublic outrage over oil, and silver margin rule changing seems surprisingly muted. Just a thought
Doubt - While Dukascopy is still accepting US clients; a few pages back, Clint said he thinks they will no longer accept US clients in July. They may also follow the others and hike the current $1,000 minimum to 5 figures, as some others have, recently - to be viewed as serving the individual considered by the CFTC as being âsophisticatedâ.
:44: I read the docs on this site, related to the new regs, and I canât see a clear correlation between them and the CFTCâs reasons for prosecuting 14 brokers (listed in a January 26 news announcement on a broker-rating site). And, the writer reported inability to find any reasons given for 3 of the accused brokers. Once I know the rules-of-the-game, Iâll be confident enough to participate. But, until thenâŠ
Itâs been a while since Iâve checked on this thread. I had to read five or so pages back to get up to speed on what Iâve missed. Btw, anyone see the heavy-handed way the DOJ targeted the offshore gambling sites? I see some parallels between that enforcement action and what theyâve done to retail Forex. (Of course, with online gambling Congress explicitly made it illegal, which isnât the case with offshore Forex, but there are parallels in how heavy-handed government agencies are being in both areas.) One would think that with limited resources the feds would have more important things to accomplish other than persecuting traders and online casino goers.
It will be a bad thing if Dukascopy bows to US pressure. I hope that doesnât happen in July, but it wonât be too long before we find out.
In reviewing tax forms recently I came to another potential issue for those seeking to utilize foreign Forex firms that I donât think has been discussed in this thread yet but which needs to be brought up. The IRS has a rule that foreign bank accounts valued at $10,000 or more have to be reported. There can be severe penalties if such accounts arenât reported. I just want people to be well aware of this issue if they choose to hold foreign accounts.
I wonder if that is per account or the aggregate?
ES
The IRS has a rule that foreign bank accounts valued at $10,000 or more have to be reported. There can be severe penalties if such accounts arenât reported. I just want people to be well aware of this issue if they choose to hold foreign accounts.
Read more: 301 Moved Permanently
I wonder if that 10K foreign holdings is per account or an aggregate?
ES
The reporting requirement is $10,000 in aggregate.
See FAQs Regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - Filing Requirements
It is a simple form to file and I have filed them routinely.
It is important to file them as when they prosecuted the UBS clients (who were millionaires with accounts in the Caymans etc. that they had not paid tax on) it was for not filing this form (and also maybe other things like tax evasion).
If people have missed filing them in the past, I think you may be ok if you file them retroactively late voluntarily:
The IRS site says:
âIf you learn you were required to file FBARs for earlier years, you should file the delinquent FBAR reports and attach a statement explaining why the reports are filed late. No penalty will be asserted if the IRS determines that the late filings were due to reasonable cause.â
I think that many many people file them late voluntarily without penalty where there was no intent to avoid tax on the profitsâŠ
So I report and pay the taxes just like I do with the other dealers that I use in the USA? Just this extra form for the Foreign DealersâŠright? My gains have been treated as capital gains because I marked my records so per the law. but I will note that I need to include the FBAR form to identify the Foreign dealers if I decide to use any.
ES