Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Looking to add another broker to the mix… FXChoice + LQDFX + Trader’s Way + Coinexx

Hank0 & Turnkey white label the same tech as Coinexx so they’re out. From the Hugosway, Eaglefx & ProsperityFX group which all use the same tech, I would love to try Eaglefx but I can’t take the BTC exchange risk when the blockchain is backed up, so they’re out until further notice…

Who’s left?

Anybody here with the long time recommended broker LMFX? It’s Wires in/out only there, but that’s not a deal breaker for me.

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There is also CryptoRocket, CedarFX and Kotx

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Have not heard of Kotx… Crocket no longer takes US clients, Crocket & Cedarfx use the same tech as Eagle, Hugo & Prosperity and are BTC withdrawals only.

Edit… Just checked out Kot4x… looks like they’re another white label broker in the Crocket/Cederfx/Properity/Hugo/Eaglefx bucket.

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Not sure what your take is on trading with a ‘prop firm’, but some give access to otherwise prohibited brokerages. Saw one the other day with IC Markets as one of their broker choices. Not sure if trading conditions are competitive, though, as that seems to be a growing problem among some of these prop firms.

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Don’t like the tax situation of being an independent contractor… I’m in NY and the tax % will be super ugly. That being said, I will very likely add MyForexFunds + FTMO to the mix soon for diversification. Overbearing crypto regulation could be the end of US citizen’s access to offshore brokers in the near future.

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Yes, unless you are looking to use another “white label”, LMFX is only option. I used that exact combo of your current 4 + LMFX for about 6 months before joining the prop firm world. When Traders Way and FXChoice stopped onboarding new US clients, it solidified the move for me.

I have one more 200K challenge at each FTMO and MFF to hit 1 mil in funding, 400K at FTMO and 600K at MFF are max before scaling. There is one popular poster from the past in here that has already secured the million.

I highly recommend the move simply from the perspective, once you pass and fee is refunded, you have zero risk. No risk of offshore broker disappearing, no risk of black swan wiping your account, etc. Not to mention, they both have their own servers you trade on and spreads are razor thin with both, better than any of our offshore offerings and, of course, shouldn’t need to say it, any of our US offerings.

If you violate a rule, you simply start over, so only risk is the time to pass again. Once funded, only rule is DD, which is 5% max daily and 10% overall at FTMO and 12% at MFF. I grind out 1-15% weekly and have never hit 2% DD. Once you have passed , there are no targets, you simply get paid biweekly whatever profits you have generated I staggered the two so I get paid weekly. MFF pays 75-80-85, so by third month 85% and FTMO now pays 80 until you scale and then they are at 90%.

I view the 10-15% I’m giving them as an insurance premium to not lose any of my own money. It truly is a no brainer at this point

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FTMO is better than MFF in drawdown rule:

For FTMO,If you have a $100000 account, you maximum drawdown is 90000. If your account increase to 120000, your drawdown is still 90000.

But for MFF, your drawdown increases to 105600(120000X88%).

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DD not an issue for me, I just use both. I trade real small and grind 1-1.5% per week. The whole point, to me atleast, of having the large capital, is WAY less risk.

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MFF charges much less fee and the minimum trading days for challenge is 5 days compared with FTMO 10 days.

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The overall drawdown @ MFF is the same as FTMO + 2%. On 100K you can’t go below 88K vs 90K with FTMO. The daily draw down is where there is a difference. FTMO is fixed @ 5% of original funding vs MFF which is 5% of equity/balance @ rollover.time.

My risk per trade will be around 1%, 2 max losses a day & any open positions closed out @ 4:55, so MFF’s daily drawdown rule will be pretty much irrelevant in my case.

Based on reputation, you can’t go wrong with either… but I will start with MFF since it’s cheaper, with larger drawdown & lower target to hit.

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No.
Both have the same rule for daily drawdown, which is calculated from the starting equity of the day, regardless of how intraday equity changes.

This is from MFF site:
How is the 5% daily drawdown calculated?

“Daily dd is calculated from starting equity or balance of the day (whichever is higher) based on the broker’s timezone.”

This is from FTMO site:

"Please take notice that MDL is moving together with the initial balance of the new day. As you can see above, the MDL limit moves every midnight in relation to the account balance at 23:59:59 CE(S)T when the MDL resets to the initial 5% limit of the initial account balance.

The difference between MDL and Maximum Loss (ML) is that MDL always resets at midnight CE(S)T to 5% of the initial account balance. This can be seen in the graphic above. ML takes all-time open and closed profits/losses into account and if you step over the 10% limit of ML, it would count as a violation."

The difference is in overall drawdown.
FTMO has a fixed drawdown while MFF has a trailing drawdown.

The biggest advantage for MFF is price:
For a $100000 account, FTMO charges $626 and MFF charges $499.
For a $10000 account, FTMO charges $180 and MFF charges $84.

I think there is one benefit that most prop firms yet to explore:
If there are 20 consistent winners out of 200 live accounts, and the prop firms copy their trades, it could provide a huge profit to prop firms. Therefore the price of challenges could still be lower when competition heat up.

This is in their discord evaluation FAQ…

How is the overall drawdown calculated?

The overall drawdown is 12% of the initial account balance. For example: If you have a $100,000 account, then 12% of that is $12,000. $100,000 - $12,000 = $88,000 So if your account goes lower than $88,000 then your account has violated the overall drawdown rule.

That doesn’t mean the overall drawdown remain the same when account size increases.

This is also from web FAQ:
Does the overall drawdown increase?

The only time the overall drawdown increases is when your account size increases. This is after you reach the profit target. For example: Your $50,000 Conventional Accelerated Account has an overall drawdown of $2,500. When you reach the profit target of 10%, your account size will then be $100,000 which increases your overall drawdown to $5,000.

So at 50000 your 5% drawdown is 47500.
At 100000 your 5% drawdown is 95000.
For FTMO, the overall drawdown remains at 47500.

Also people at youtube confirmed MFF
use trailing drawdown.

-That’s why we reinvest profits into tax-friendly vehicles like real estate. :smiley:

Speaking of tax-friendly vehicles:

.

-FYI, you are quoting a section of FAQ that references accelerated accounts, which are structured differently, and do not have have any daily or trailing draw-down.

You are right.
I checked again, and the most relevant information seems to be this:

How is the overall drawdown calculated?

The overall drawdown is 12% of the initial account balance. For example: If you have a $100,000 account, then 12% of that is $12,000. So if your account goes lower than $88,000 then your account has violated the overall drawdown rule.

It does read like a fixed drawdown.
But on this issue FTMO has length explanation with example that it is fixed drawdown.
But MFF has just a short description, from which I am still not sure it is a fixed drawdown, because it does not say what happen when account balance goes up then goes down.

I cannot say, for sure. I have not given much attention to the programs that have daily draw-down requirements, especially those with trailing or relative daily draw-down.

I personally prefer programs that employ an absolute or ‘overall initial balance’ draw-down requirement. MFF’s accelerated accounts are structured this way, but they only currently offer 50% profit-split on such accounts. I was told that there are internal discussions regarding increasing this, possibly in November.

Blue Edge Funding has a nice-looking program without daily draw-down requirements, as well as an 85% profit-split, but they are really new to the prop firm scene and are likely a white label of Traders Central, as well as a bit more pricey than some alternatives.

At the end of the day, though, it’s all relative, and any risk can be mitigated if/once a challenge refund has been given or withdrawn, so all of these options offer additional diversification, overall profit-potential and risk reduction; so no-brainers as far as I am concerned.

You are correct. I have 2 200K live accounts with MFF (eval model), my overall dd stays at 176K, actually they give a little leeway, 175,800. This never changes whether account is in profit or not. Daily DD is 5% of the balance or equity (whichever is higher) at 5 pm eastern. Accelerated model (which I never recommend) has different rules.

Been trading with prop firms about 16 months now. These programs you mention above MFF accelerated, blue edge, 5%ers, CTI where your initial fee is larger than DD allowed serve absolutely no value to you as a trader. The “scaling” is a marketing gimmick. If you pay say, $500 fee for a $500 max loss, you can trade the same position sizes in both accounts and keep 100% in the personal account. I’ve plugged the numbers into excel for all of the various firms and by the time you get to max scaling with the firm, you have 2-3X that in the personal account. Whereas the challenge/eval models of MFF/FTMO give you 10-12K of DD for $500-$650, 20-24 times DD vs the fee.

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The value to the trader is leveraging their capital, allowing you to make equal or better profits, but with less risk. Even though the absolute, total risk is the same, in order to realize the same profits on the smaller account as you could on the larger account, you would need to take on more risk, either in the way of time and exposure to the market, or, by using more leverage.

Leveraging prop firm capital affords you more buying power, without the use of more leverage, thereby minimizes your risk exposure while allowing you to see equal or better profits over the long-term. This benefit becomes greater with scaling models that will double account size once 10/20% profit targets are satisfied.

Similarly, in order to double your account size on your own, personal account, you would need to profit 100%, whereas, in order to double the account size on a prop firm account, you would only need to profit 10% or 20%.

Likewise, in order to make 1K profit on a 5K personal account, you would need to profit 20% on that account. To see the same profit on a 50K prop firm account, where you put up 5K of your own money to serve as draw-down, you would only need to make 2% on that account in order to see the same profit. You wouldn’t have to use as much leverage to do that, or spend as much time trading, and you could also minimize your exposure to the market, either in the form of time, or in the amount of trades that you would have to take (i.e. you would not have to use as much risk to achieve the same result).

Making 20% on a personal account could easily take you 2 months or more if you are a careful trader. Making 2% on a ‘funded’ account could take you a day or two. The result is the same, except you spent much less time and exposure to risk on the larger account, even though the money at risk was your own in both cases.

Even the argument that the draw-down is the same is technically incorrect in most cases, because if you are trading on a 5K personal account, in order to realize the same profits as you could on a 50K, under the same time-frame, you would need to use leverage. Using leverage increases your risk. If you were margin called/stopped, you wouldn’t even be able to use up all of that 5K in order to stay in the market long enough for a reversal, because your positions would be closed.

However, on a ‘funded’ account, you could use up every bit of that 5K in order to allow yourself more room and to even wait it out for a reversal that could pull you out of draw-down, whereas, that would not be possible on the 5K account that is having to use more leverage in order to achieve similar buying power, and is much more at risk of margin call/close and liquidation.

So, I respectfully disagree that programs that are structured like MFF accelerated offer no value, especially when considering a trader’s needs/preferences and circumstances etc…

Regarding your comment about initial fees being larger than allowable draw-down, I am personally not aware of any program that is structured that way.

Regarding evaluation programs, I do not see any problem with them. Even though, as you claim, the draw-down allowance is better in terms of costs etc., the value of the accelerated programs and programs like Blue Edge, is that the draw-down is total draw-down, not daily draw-down, so a trader can essentially accumulate profits and significantly increase their draw-down protection by padding the account.