OctNov was when MFF’s phase 1/2 had demo conditions (perfect fills regardless of volatility or gaps, big lots with no slippage, trade 1000 lots of XAU on NFP release = no problem). They now simulate fills during Phase 1/2 based on backend orderbook availability. A lot of traders that passed under demo conditions flamed out once their terrible systems hit live market conditions after funding.
MFF has very similar conditions to FTMO. A bit easier target as well, 8%, and if you are in profit at end of 30 days, you can get a 4 week extension in lieu of unlimited free retires (worth it if you’re close). Bottom line is, they essentially give 2 months to hit the 8%. FTMO has adapted something similar, 14 day extension, but must be half way to target at end of 30 days (5% +). They also still give free retries if you do not pass during extension (MFF does not).
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Thanks! This is good to know. MFF wants to review trader source code, which initially bothered me. However, all brokers can probably see MQL4/MQL5 code anyway and my program is nothing but a signal manager. I might also give MFF a try in the future.
Right now, looking at FTMO $10k, because $160 is not a lot to lose. If I do pass it, then I will be confident enough to lay down the cash for a substantial account.
Word of advice to everyone, search for “MyForexFunds”. A Google search for “MFF” finds something completely different. It appears that both FTMO and MFF mean very different things in non-Forex lingo.
EDIT: Wow MFF only $84 for $10k challenge. And 12% allowable DD. Very nice. My reason for choosing FTMO to start was the availability of a demo and not liking the code review for MFF. After consideration, code review is probably fine. No demo is kind of rough. How to do proper analysis without being able to see the trading conditions?
So, they no longer require the source code. Haven’t updated the website unfortunately, but they removed that like 3 months ago, at least for evaluation accounts. They have 2 other account types where perhaps it is required. Evaluation is definitely the type you want though. As far as cost, yes you can do a 20K at My Forex Funds ($139) for less than the 10K at FTMO.
Regarding statistics, yet another thing to consider is that most people are probably not using the entire time allotment in order to pass, and are probably passing very quickly by taking on much higher risk than they should be. Then, once funded, they continue to trade with high risk and are simply not able to survive for a full 30 days (or whatever) until payout.
Although these challenges are ridiculous in that they require traders to essentially flip an account in a month or similar, these challenges can be completed without taking on unnecessary risk so long as you are willing to go slow and steady. Most people want to complete it as quickly as possible, though. That same kind of mindset carries over into live trading because they want to maximize their profit-potential, which is where they ultimately meet their demise.
I am confident that some people are okay with this, though. I suspect that some folks are even buying challenge after challenge in hopes of hitting the big one, just like treating it as a lottery. To each their own, I guess.
The funny part is, I can generate 100K profit in a day by scalping the market on a demo account using a 200K account, so I know that it is possible, especially since most of these firms will have you on demo for a while, even after you have gone live. However, if someone tried to do that with one of these firms, where they trade like a madman on day one, then just stop trading for the rest of the month until payout, then I would bet money that these firms would not honor it. Might be a fun experiment, just to see, though, if anyone is courageous enough to try it.
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Actually, MFF does offer unlimited free retries if you fail extension but do not break any rules with a positive balance at the end of your extension. Read their Q&A.
Here are a few other prop firms whose terms are close to MFF.
Scroll down to the bottom and you will see 5 firms comparison.
The virtual prop firm space is filled with degen gamblers. The allure of big windfalls keeps them risking way too much to feed their addiction. They actually start believing they are the best trader in the world.
The trading conditions soon change and then get wiped out. Only a matter of time.
Your post only takes you to The Funded Trader website. Yes, I do know there are several following FTMO and MFF model, however, they all have their issues. Some may be worth a shot AFTER maxing out FTMO and MFF.
Scroll down on that page, you will see 5 firms comparison.
I constantly have to fight my instincts to maintain sane risk management. I don’t think the human brain is wired for trading. We have to fight our own nature to have a chance at succeeding. That’s one reason I program everything and walk away.
That said, it looks like I am going to pass the demo unless someone unexpectedly yells BREXIT, starts WW3, or similar crazy news. I am thinking minimum FTMO challenge, then minimum MFF challenge whether I pass FTMO or not. Then reassess… If I can pass the $10k account tests, I should be able to get a bigger account afterwards. The most I stand to lose is the fee to try, which is an acceptable loss.
Very smart approach. Reinvest the profits to max out each firm. Keep in mind as well, as long as you finish in profit, even .01, you go again for free.
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Yes, that’s why they say psychology is such an important part of trading. Once I got over “fear of missing out”, trading improved dramatically. We’ve all done it, your trade stops out and then reverses, so you go back in or you keep adding to a loser because “what if it turns back around”. Once it sinks in that “the market isn’t going anywhere” and there is always another setup, 80% of your battle is won. The rest is solid risk management and of course you need a system with an edge. If the psychology and the money management is right, it only needs to be a slight edge on the system. When all 3 come together, trading isn’t even stressful any longer.
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FTMO does a good job of evening out risk across instruments by offering lower leverage on certain instruments such as BTCUSD. Still, I notice a few instruments I want to adjust. I’m going to divide GOOG and probably AAPL by 3 to make those trades’ risk closer to the others.
Info like this is what makes demo trading so important. I’m a little concerned about diving into a paid challenge at MFF sans demo, although with 2 months to complete it the answer is probably to simply trade minimum lots for the first week while getting used to the environment. $22 to go to win demo and start FTMO $10k challenge. Will probably drop lots overall just a bit too. There is no rush.
EDIT: I am talking about tuning risk in my program. Conditions vary between brokers and sometimes the lot size calculated by my program is not as intended. Manual traders would not need to worry quite so much about this.
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Really good idea, it is so important to be continually analysing and adapting to whats in front of you. It is key to make sure you have all the fundamentals right to let your trading take over. Really nice post!
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Watching the exact same strategy on FTMO free demo and another broker (that I really like) and FTMO account is performing a lot better… Of course, this is free demo. If I pass the challenge, I will report back on real money versus real money (which is the only thing that matters). Also have to account for the 10% funded account would take off the top and the tax implications. EVen so, extremely happy with trading conditions so far. Thanks everyone for all the posts and mathematical analysis detailing funded trading. I was a skeptic, but the numbers don’t lie. Of course, it is all contingent upon passing the challenge (no small feat) and of ongoing payouts. Looks promising so far. Cheers
#SelfFunded 
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Nice. I wish I had $500K of discretionary income to throw into an account. Even if I did, though, a black swan type event could wipe the account or bankrupt the broker, resulting in a loss of the entire account. With the props, it’s not my money, just have to start the process over. Only asset I’d lose is the time to start over. .
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Funny you mention that. My NinjaTrader account has a tidy sum whilst im fiddling with futures. The amount you have to have in for margin req is an odd feeling.
You never know what can happen in the markets… I was long the us dollar index and short gold futures when the 2 planes hit the twin towers on 9/11. The NY exchanges closed down for a week while the rest of the world was still trading moving those markets in the opposite direction of my positions. Thank goodness I was not overleveraged (large stop losses @ 2% max risk) or I would have been completely wrecked.
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Great example. I wasn’t trading back then. However, the glaring example that comes to mind is the Swiss Bank removing the peg in 2015. Price blew through stops, as they were not honored due to no liquidity. More concerning was the brokers that went bankrupt. We discuss here all the time the lack of funds protection for a US trader. So, in that instance, even doing the right thing, could cost your entire account. I literally stopped trading CHF that day and haven’t traded it since.
The ironic thing with that event was the idiocy of traders praising the brokers who did negative balance forgiveness lol. The STP/ECN brokers went or came close to going bankrupt, while the market makers made a ton of money that day. Of course, they forgave the negative balance.
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