That’s none of our business and that has no relevance to this topic or your allegations.
Your purported experience in trading and software/hardware engineering clearly doesn’t help determine what a fraud is, how due diligence is conducted and how to put up evidence for those alleged claims.
Evidence?
Where is the evidence of your purported claims? Your due diligence?
yeah, you are probably right in that i dont know what a fraud is.
Is this your due diligence? Is this the supporting evidence for the alleged scam by FTMO and Alg’s part in perpetuating that scam? A 30 minute audio file and another random YT video?
Here’s how it’s supposed to work with allegations like this. The organisation/entity makes a claim on what it’s business model is. It’s only obligation to provide proof of said model is perhaps to it’s investors and regulatory bodies overseeing it’s activities.
You’re the one making the claim that the company isn’t legitimate and is engaging in scam/fraudulent activity. The burden of providing proof of those claims falls on you. Not the entity.
Just because your due diligence is poor or you’re unable to find proper evidence doesn’t mean the organization is fraudulent.
I read through everything and I honestly need time to digest everything again my son who is an accountant for a large software company had the same conclusion as you did that said I just am looking for finding a way to make a living and trading seemed to be the way. I DO NOT KNOW IF ANYTHING IS REAL OR NOT I AM TRYING TO ESTABLISH IF THERE IS ANY LEGITAMACY IN TRADING PROP FIRMS from your point there isn’t but Algo says as been doing it with some success I guess the bank account would tell all but if I WHERE HIM i would not show that either in public hell Politicians do NOT.
If they can can hide it so a common guy definitely can I am not insinuating anything really as I said I am a humble regular Joe guy making a living. This seemed to be something that ultimately needs a whole lot more research and sets me back a bit having wanted to make a living TRADING seems likely not possible until I have my own funds I AM NOT SURE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO GET MORE INPUT FROM OTHERS I neither agree or disagree with anyone here I THINK YOU CARE ENOUGH TO BE ANSWERING MY POST IS GREAT WANTED THAT TO BE EXTRA CLEAR I THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING AND HOPE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS i have been months now torn between going ahead and I FEEL i am not the only guy who needs to find some truth or the lies behind this business or half truths and some small hope I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS but I FEEL BABYPIPS should pull off real answers from real people who care enough because this is what a forum is about to find out where this is Heading so to speak THANK YOU SO MUCH again Both of you who have answered every bit of information is helpful in establishing adecision for me moving forward and I HONESTLY HOPE FOR MANY OTHER GUYS AND GALS
Yrurbano, sorry about derailing your thread.
Full disclosure - I don’t trade for any prop firm but I do read up on and occasionally follow others that do, like Alg’s thread on price action (which is a really good read).
If and when I do I’d want to know if it’s a legal entity, where it’s registered, if it’s being overseen by some regulatory body (I haven’t looked into it) and go over it’s terms of use (and other rules) with a fine tooth comb to spot any suspected irregularities.
Edit: If I have enough starting capital I’d probably risk taking the challenge on one of it’s smaller accounts to familiarize myself with the product and get first hand experience in dealing with them.
From the little I’ve seen so far there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence to support FTMO’s legitimacy. This is the most well known prop firm and there are quite a few out there.
There are also stories of bad prop firms like Funding Talent and owner Jessica Ghaney, where it’s alleged she pays successful traders off the deposits of those failing the challenges. But that’s the case with any type of istitution, like brokers, in this industry I believe. There are always good and bad apples.
on the surface, that is a great plan…
when your son advises you that the phoney baloney prop firms such as ftmo are con artist ponzi schemes, i would strongly suggest that you listen to your son more than you would listen to a bunch of anonymous forum users.
i would compare the ftmo “challenge” to some of the amusement games at a carnival that are designed to look easy to play but in reality it is next to impossible to toss a ping pong ball and have it go into one of the bottles and that it looks hella easy to toss a plastic ring and have it hit its target.
it is a trick. i promise you. FTMO has NO LIVE TRADERS IT IS A FLIM FLAM SCAM.
THESE ARE FAST TALKING SALESMEN… PURE AND SIMPLE.
With this logic I declare Metaquotes a scam company. There are no live traders on MT4/5.
All those guys selling bots, signals and indicators ARE FAST TALKING SALESMEN… PURE AND SIMPLE.
I kinda have to agree with you that it really looks cheesy when i open up my metatrader terminal and down in the terminal bar under the “market” tab there are completely nonsense trading bots for sale for as much as $30k.
but, when i am conducting due diligence and i am investigating a specific company, i am rarely distracted when someone attempts to redirect my focus by telling me that there is crime going on in many other places…
when i am conducting due diligence for the FTMO company, i only have one thing on my plate and that is FTMO.
ftmo is a criminal scam.
pure and simple.
but that is not true… and i know for a fact that this is not true…
any fully regulated broker has reporting requirements and they are audited by the regulatory agencies… they are required to maintain cash reserves…
but you just seem eager to argue… while i am simply looking for some kind of evidence other than just words that ftmo actually has live traders.
done.
I know. That’s the point with FTMO claims too. Even if FTMO derives most of it’s revenue from failed challenges and pays out it’s successful traders with it, you can’t claim it’s fraudulent if it’s paying it’s winners, as contractually agreed.
It’d only be a scam/fraud if it’s not paying it’s winners, as agreed, or if it’s failing people unfairly (on a 10% drawdown as opposed to a 50% drawdown stipulated for example).
If you have evidence of such activity you’d be doing the community good by sharing it.
I’d prefer to argue it out than risk making any false allegations against another forum member. If you’re still looking for evidence still then you clearly shouldn’t make the bold claims about other people without anything substantive.
Good luck in your continuing due diligence.
you just described how a ponzi or pyramid scheme functions, in that they pay out profits that really arent profits but instead the money comes from the most recent investors.
also, ftmo is legit IF IT ACTUALLY PROVIDES LIVE TRADING ACCOUNTS TO THOSE THAT MANAGE TO NAVIGATE THRU THEIR IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE.
nice try.
A ponzi scheme promises to pay all. What I described only pays winning traders. The numbers can actually add up if you have a high volume of losing traders.
Besides they promise a 80/20 - 95/5 profit split. So they can clearly make a decent commission from winning traders. Plus, if I’m not mistaken there are also trading objectives that have to be met consistently for them to continue being funded by FTMO. How do you not know this if you’re doing due diligence? I don’t even trade with them and know this.
Is there any evidence that no live accounts are being used?
good luck trading with ftmo.
Thanks but I don’t intend to trade with them. I, personally don’t like the kind of controls and objectives that have to be consistently met as a funded trader. No different from working for a corporation I believe.
Hi @yrurbano1,
You are indeed unfortunate that one of your first posts has been hijacked and diverted so badly. I have read 22,000 posts on this forum over the past two years, and I can honestly say that this is the only one I can recall that has been so badly distorted. I will try to relate my own experience in this area and stay away from the unfortunate debate that is costing members much time and with little reward.
First, I know @alg626 to be a member who would have no reason to send you false or misleading information about his experience with Prop trading firm.
Second, I have spent over 200 hours following an ex-member of this forum who advises one trading plan that he refers to as NNFX (no nonsense forex), which I have found has dramatically improved my trading performance. He says he has been a Prop trader for about four years, and that he has earned a sufficient income to do trading full time. I have no reason not to believe him.
Thirdly, before Covid-19 I joined a group of traders based around Manchester, England and met up with them three times before Covid-19 interrupted the face to face meetings. At least three of the 900 odd members were prop traders, and one of them gave a 75 minute presentation and question / answer session about his first six months of prop trading with the firm.
It is therefore my experience that prop trading is of itself not a scam. Though I have seen that entry criteria may be “very specific”, and that proof of profitability is continuous, but as someone who has often invested my own capital into other people’s ideas, I know that to be an essential part of a successful venture.
This subject is very important to many new members because after a while, new members realize that it is highly improbable that they can make profits in the thousands of percent in Forex, and to make a living wage (let’s say - only $20K per year as a minimum), a reasonable expectation of return would be 15% to 30% per year, and so the capital available to trade full time would be of the region of $66K to $133K. For the vast majority of new Forex traders, that is outside of their capability.
So the prospect of becoming a PROP trader is very attractive to a new member, and gives hope that they could in fact earn a living wage only if they are able to demonstrate to themselves (and later to others) that they can continuously generate a return of about 10% to 15% per year. That in itself changes the psychology of the budding trader and makes it a whole lot more probable that they will not blow an account by choosing a far riskier strategy with unrealistic expectations.
Getting new traders to realize that 1% to 2% portfolio risk is sensible, that wider stop losses that relate to the reality of back testing (i.e., quantifiably relatable to ATR (14) for example) and analysis of a trading journal will result in a continuous record of success versus failure that is actually required to progress to becoming a PROP trader.
I hope this information will encourage you to proceed with the learning and experience exercises you intend to undertake and I encourage you to view this as a long term (multi-year) journey instead of something you can master in a few weeks.
that means a lot, lol…
most scams have supporters that are religiously devoted to the scams that are ripping them off.
i remember when the bernie madoff ponzi scheme hit the fan, everybody was saying good things about bernie… bernie couldnt do no wrong… bernie used to be the chairman of the nasdaq… he wouldnt cheat anybody… oh no…
bernie ran a ponzi scheme where he was collecting investment capital from investors… he ended up running a ponzi investment scheme that was supposed to be worth sixty billion dollars… but there was a problem… bernie had just been living off of his investors capital… bernie had the house up in the hamptons… bernie had the multi million dollar penthouse up in manhattan… you know, living like a baller.
bernie was straight up a criminal…
by the way, nntp is just another one of the wolves, he aint no saint.
nntp uses the basic indicators, which will never give to you long term success.
@tradecode, I appreciate the fact you do not let investment firms pull the wool over your eyes and you are unrelenting at exposing fraud at any length. Those are cool qualities people should be grateful that some possess.
However, as regards FTMO, your alarm is false. There is a trader I know who just quit his job because he earns much more from FTMO than what his job gives him. Though he did not have to but, sometimes, he would upload the proof of payment from the prop firm. This is to encourage traders that it can be done.
@yrurbano1, from multiple indications, FTMO is a legit prop firm. I follow a thread at forexfactory where the nature and legitimacy of prop firms are dissected, tested, argued, and continually observed. The thread has run into a lot of pages discussing new and old prop firms but the two prop firms that have always stood out as tried and trusted are MFF and FTMO. I hope that helps.
no, i seriously doubt that… nobody has ever been a legit 100k live account trader for ftmo… NEVER.
ftmo is a firm that scams people out of FEES.
Opening a prop firm and charging news traders entry fees seems a very good business model. Most new traders are under-prepared, under-capitalised and are only able to run losing strategies, so this is a fertile market.
But anything that looks so much like a Ponzi scheme is probably a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are illegal everywhere. For the trader, this is just not a legitimate and promising business proposition.