I'm in it for the money

Beginner Questions
1

Why else would I try learning this Hieroglyphics? I’m in it for the money, plain and simple.

I’m 63, a graphic designer. I was drawn into Forex by a FAP Turbo ad, only to find that they have next to zero customer service.

I bought FAP MegaDroid, and FAP Winner thinking a few robots would do the trick… not exactly knowing what the TRICK is in the first place. Coming into Forex as I’m sure most of you know, or have found out the hard way is like stepping off into a swamp of interesting ideas, hopes, and promises. Still a swamp. Real mucky, and murky.

We all have Robots and Auto Pilots working for us in our daily lives. We don’t shovel coal to heat our bath water or our home. We have Pilot Lights, and Thermostats that do that thinking for us.

The FAP’s… Forex Auto Pilots are sold as No Brainers, and Hands Off ROBOTS.

So while we are playing “Indiana Jones” learning Hieroglyphics, why not shine a little more light on the Forex Auto Pilots, of what ever flavor suits you, and have them make some cash for us while we are all attending this Financial Mystery College of the Ages. Learning how to capture those pesky little PIPs, PAPs or PUPs, whatever you call them.

As a professional Designer who has been in every imaginable meeting of far flung creative minds all across this nation, I don’t care to follow the leader like blind, although highly intelligent “processionary caterpillars” just to take a very interesting stroll through the breathtaking wintery forest of Camelot.

Do I sound like a man with a thorn in his side? Yes I am. My wonderful 16 year old son was murdered over a Sheriff’s campaign I designed. It’s a long sad story.

If there is money to made along the way, I’m sure we all could use some. Perhaps this forum of folks who all have crosses to bear, could help each other set up and turn on a few FAP Robots for each other, then the rest of the journey would be much easier for all of us… since it’s right up our alley anyway… what do you think?

Tom

2

I believe, that all these Robo�s should be put into a waste bin.

Or in nicer words :

IF

there would be Robo�s out there , which could earn big mountains of money for you whilst you do nothing … do you believe, world wouldn�t know ?

IF

there would be the one single trading-method which makes the trader rich … wouldn�t we know ?

I think , its about hard work and discipline … and maybe, one of these days you get rewarded . I am almost as senior as you are, “us” should know by now . :wink:

Kleinerbroker

Comment : Trading is my hobby,primarily I am trading because I like it … it is educating me couple of exiting things .

3

Oh man,

To me it seems the past year has started a whole new generation of holy grail searching - in the form of finding “that EA”

Its no different to looking for a system and jumping onto the next best one that comes out in the form of an ebook at 29.95, thats guaranteed to treble your account.

does that sound familiar?

Dont get me wrong, i am sure that there are some great EAs out there, but if there were any huge money makers i doubt they would need to sell it to make money?

I’ve always found long term charts the best way to make money.

Others that i personally know day trade support and resistance and make a good living.

N

4

I think there is a MASSIVE misconception about trading. A lot of new traders come in here with the belief that there is this massive pool of money waiting to be taken. It’s like they believe that knowing about FX makes them somehow deserving of the profits.

Well guess what, there’s big banks, funds, and other large players that make this their BUSINESS. They know how to set the traps, take the right chances, and do actually get the lion’s share of that elusive pool of money.

Be honest with yourself, and realize that if you want money from this market, you’re going to have to TAKE it from those big players, and they are ready to defend it. So go slow, take your time, and learn all the tips and tricks and you’ll probably get your modest share, because those big players aren’t always right and they can be quite sloppy at times too :wink:

5

Don’t be deceived; forex is not easy. If it were, everyone would have been millionnaire.

Forex is not a game. It is a war! A war between the Bulls and the Bears. So you either kill or get killed! Join the winning side, make money and save your soul.

Robots are programmed to trade with certain parameters. Forex is a dynamic market and needs to be analysed perfectly at every point in time to be able to trade successfully. Robots cannot do that!

To be successful in Forex, you must take positions in the right direction, at the rate price with the right stop loss and target.

Invite <[email protected]> to your messanger list for free signals and market analysis.

6

Rasdaq I know your heart is in the right place, but this statment is absurd: “Forex is a dynamic market and needs to be analysed perfectly at every point in time to be able to trade successfully”

There isn’t a Forex trader on the planet that can, perfectly analyize the market at ANY time.

That is why even successful systems have losses. All it is, is a probability game. You find a way of trading that you know when you enter according to your plan you have a higher probability of winning.

Anyone that says that they can perfectly analyize the market and predict every move is either full of BS or extremely deluded.

Trying to develop the ability to analyize the market and predict every move is a HUGE waste of time and not going to happen. Forex is a very fluid, volitile market. It never does exactly the same thing twice. Even if you see candle formation or a set of triggers worked a certain way one time and you won, it could do something completely different next time.

7

Tom, I honestly don’t think trading is for you. Like others have said, most EA’s are straight up scams designed to get you to use a certain broker and then take your money. Others are only good under certain conditions, if at all, and then fail in other market conditions.

It seems like most new EA seekers you are looking to make all the money without all the work.

Very simply, if you don’t have the time or interest in learning how to trade, you are NOT going to make the money.

Think logically, if EA’s worked so great why would they sell them? If someone developed a great robot they’d just go and set up a robotic trading room with dozens of computers and accounts. Or, if they weren’t greedy just let one computer run the EA 24/7.

Trading and it’s movements are driven by PEOPLE and their behavors and emotions and reactions to the market.

If you are interested in TRADING, not just making money, do yourself a favor and put some real effort in and learn to do it. If you go searching for robots to trade for you, I can guarantee you will be very dissapointed with the results and probably lose a lot of money.

Honestly, trading isn’t hard at all. There is not magic pill, EA or holy grail. You need screen time, practice and a willingness to make mistakes and learn from them.

I’ve found the best lessons are learned by making mistakes and losing a trade. The people who fail at trading and never come back are IMO, the types who thought they were going to throw money into an account and win every trade and become rich quick.

When they lost and realized they didn’t know what they were doing they either quit before learning anything or let their ego’s tell them that it’s rigged scam and no one makes money trading forex.

Trading is an art, that takes time develop within the trader. You should sit back and ask your self two questions.

  1. Do I actually want to trade, does it interest me enough to study and develop skills over what may be YEARS? I’ve run several businesses and know many small business owners. People who get into a business just for the money and don’t like what they do, don’t last long at it and or run it badly, because they don’t love what they do enough to put in the passion it takes to do it well.

IMO, a trader should LOVE trading and have a passion for it, not just making money. I love trading, even when I lose a few trades in a row.

  1. Do I personally have what it takes? Some nice people on here will tell you anyone can trade. Nope. Can anyone dunk a basketball. Does everyone have the brains to go to school and become a surgeon. You might find that you can trade, but you hate it to death. Also, quite simply, some people are not too bright. I guess I sound like a jerk saying this, but I often see noobs on here who can’t type a coherant post, or grasp the most basic fudamentals. Yet, they somehow think that they have what it takes to become the next millionaire forex trader.
    Not that you have to be super smart, but a quick mind IMO is needed.
8

Thank you for the time you took composing a very thoughtful reply. This kind of fellowship is the best way to learn for all concerned.

I think back to when I was 17, I just arrived in Korea at my duty station out in the boondocks. It was a Nike Hercules Nuclear Missile site. I was a Newbie then, too. I arrived there to replace a Missileman who was ready to rotate back to the States.

I learned the Nike Hercules in side and out, how it was made, how to handle it, how to make all the electrical checks, how to set it up to launch and fire it off. Then how to blow up our entire site, once we fired a Missile, and “get out of Dodge” before the enemy rained death on us. I also learned the protocol to guard it with sentry dogs. I learned all this in 12 weeks flat.

The US Army has a Lock-on Training Method. They can teach anyone anything in the least amount of time.

So, I am wondering why Forex needs so much time to learn.

I’m a Graphic Designer with a Journeyman Printer background. I’ve been able to combine Artistry and Technology sweetly. And as you say, it doesn’t happen over night.

It would be helpful to have a simple checklist for Newbies to follow while they get the swing of things. Steps 1 to 20 more or less, to set up a trading chart quickly, and acurately. Followed by a list of do’s and dont’s and stop losses. Then apply skill and judgement to make the trade.

I’m rather impressed with Andy Shearman’s method at: fxmoneymap.net

Has anyone seen it? I would like to know your opinion.

When I go to the hardware store to buy a drill, I really don’t want the drill, I want the hole.

Trading is the means, money is the end. Then that very money becomes the
means to another end, which is better living. Then that better living is the means to yet another end, which is to become a better citizen of some consequence… and onward and upward.

I think greed is a crutch for those who lack goals and imagination.

I appreciate this Forum and your constructive criticism.

Newbie Tom

9

When I started reading your post my first thought is “this man is drunk!”, but when finished I realized how sober the whole post really is…

Learning procedures and protocals is a 2+2=4 construct but learning emotion is a 2+2=5 experience.

Learning, say military operations (bad example) is cut and dry, click this button and this will happen… click that for that… to build a bridge use this mathmatical formula to know how thick the supports need to be, yes, quite simple. Learning WHY or HOW this button enacts this task, the behind the scenes of electricity, physics, and perhaps ‘magic’ … to continue the bridge line of thought… I am thinking the difference of a engineer and an architect.

There are a myriad of abstract factors in play with trading… the consensus amongst trading forums seem to revolve around greed and fear. Emotions, something of which we have not yet quite laid the mathmatical latticework for…

Cool quote BTW…

-P

10

When you make a winning trade, you’re taking money off someone else. In reality, with retail, this is money from the broker but if you were trading the underlying market, this would represent you getting one over someone else.

What do you know that they don’t? What do you know that seasoned speculators who do this day in, day out, don’t know? Why would they go long if you’ve gone short? This in short is your edge. Finding that is difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. Combine that, with lax money management and over-leverage, and the chances are that you (not you specifically) will blow your account before you’ve found anything of merit or learnt to control how to trade.

One easy to implement edge is operating on S/R on longer timeframes. The edge you have over others is simple - you’re operating on a longer timeframe than your opponent and so have a longer view of the market. There are others of course. Some are out in the open, some are kept secret. None of them are for sale in an EA.

11

THE FULL MEANING OF THE STATEMENT

The statement “Forex is a dynamic market and needs to be analysed perfectly at every point in time to be able to trade successfully” was to explain why robots don’t work. I never said every trade will be won.

No business is 100% risk-free. However, if you can not predict where the market is going perfectly, then why risk your hard-earned money. This is why 95% of forex traders fail - they gamble! While the other 5% trade it as a business and they succeed. Forex is a business where profit is the sole aim with provision for unforeseen circumstances (stop loss).

People often say there is “No Holy Grail in Forex” because they have not found it. If there is no way to trade forex successfully, then you mean it is Gambling not a business.

12

The reason is, is because much of it is an ART. It’s not something where you can say, “do this exactly as instructed and this happens with x result every time.” Much of what you learn, past the technical stuff, is internal.

Just like two different great artists painting the same picture. They’ll both arrive at a nice painting in the end, but the approach could be tottally different.

13

Ah, I see now, your either a scammer trying to sell a signal service or someone who is deluded.

I’ll say again: Anyone who thinks they can predict where the market is going perfectly is either full of major BS or very deluded. And that is regardless of winning or losing. Because, if you could perfectly predict where the market was going you’d have to be a moron to EVER lose a trade.

I’ll tell you what, use your signal service or what ever you want. Post before tommorows open your EXACT PREDICTIONS of where price will be for GBP/USD from the London open until the U.S. close…Here’s the catch, tell me where price is going to be EXACTLY every 15 minutes. And not close to this line or that line or along some indicator. The exact price down to the last decimal.

Can you do that? If you can’t then you are full of BS and can’t “PREDICT WHERE THE MARKET IS GOING PERFECTLY.”

If you think you are going to perefectly predict where the market is going and trade off of that, you might as well just call up a phychic hotline. Because, perfectly predicting where the market is going is pure fantasy.

14

Excellent point, excellently stated, Phoenix.

Clint

[B]“If it’s the Psychic Network, why do they need a phone number?”[/B] — Robin Williams

15

I guess this forum is for sharing ideas and knowledge of FOREX. Despite my clear understanding of the market, I always keep an open mind to know more because every additional information counts especially in FOREX. I was only trying to get a vital point across to anyone that cares to know.
Asking me to predict where the market is going in a particular day is asking me to gamble which is what 95% of traders do- I am not part of them. IT TAKES GOD’S WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND MY POINT.

16

Hello everybody, I just joined the site and is this kind of posts that I was looking for to read…
It doesn�t matter how much you know, new information is always welcome when it comes to forex trading!
You cannot predict what will happen, you speculate and hope for the best� this market can make you good money, but you can also loose money�
Good luck!!!

17

These are errors in fact Rasaq.

Traders do not fail because they gamble.
Traders fail because of lack of knowledge, poor money management and bad trading psychology.

People have not found the Holy Grail because there is no such thing.

Let me post corrections to your statements >>>


By tymen1 at 2009-01-16

The loss of money then, is divided into several sections.

As to the holy grail, the following hyperlink tells the truth…

The Trading Game

18

Yes this is totally correct. :slight_smile:

Trading is about probabilities and estimating them.

You can never be 100% sure where a trade will go, but you can certainly trade in the highest probability direction.

If you get it wrong - well, thats what a stoploss is for. :wink:

Thus we generate win/loss and risk/reward ratios.

Thus we generate trading strategies and indicators to improve our estimates of the probabilities.

The whole thing becomes something of an art as well as a science.
Thus the long learning period.

[B]Finally, you must never trade just for the money.
If you do, you will lose.

Instead you must trade well - that is do excellent strategy trades.
The money will then take care of itself.[/B]

19

Excellent point, concentrate the mind on being a good trader and learning to trade well NOT the money. Money will happen as a bi-product.

21

Its really painful to see, there are so many trader join forex market to make money… But most of them ended up loosing money…

I wish if there’s any better way to prevent that or at-least reduce the percentage of loosing traders…