I'm sitting on the 'Holy Grail' system - How can I fund this?

Trading Systems Free Forex Trading Systems
1

First: I’m [U]not [/U]soliciting investors - rather seeking to get assistance in brainstorming the different ways I can get this business off the ground.

Second: I have 0 interest in going in to any revealing detail about my strategy, even in the highest level. As far as I’m concerned: I’m holding on to a billion dollar ticket and in this trading game, the value of a market advantage deteriorates rapidly if it becomes well known. I will discuss the success of the system a bit to explain why I am so anxious to get off the ground with this full time and so it’s understood why even with (relatively) minimal capitalization, getting this going ASAP makes so much sense.

Third: I am not a rookie or a kid. I have studied the markets for over 10 years - traded Forex as an under-capitalized full time trader full time for part of it, and for the other part have been battling with the masses like everyone else while working a straight job.

Fourth: No, I am not joking - Everything contained within is 100% factual and again, I am no rookie.

NOW:

I have developed a [U]100% mechanical[/U] strategy (meaning, the signals are easily seen coming in advance, perfectly defined, and my favorite part - personal discretion is eliminated making back testing 100% legitimate. I don’t care if every piece of news and technical analysis says to short the Euro, if this simple system says long - I do it with absolutely 0 regard for anything else) . This strategy is back testing absolutely unreal results; I have never seen anything like it.

The results: after THOUSANDS of trades, over several years, looking at most major currency pairs (and also looking at stocks and futures - I have yet to find an instrument that causes this system to fail but I will stick to FOREX as It’s what I know): this system produces consistently greater than 83% win percentage. The losses are capped as a maximum of the win (meaning seeking a 100 pip profit, the maximum loss is 100 pips): but since most losses are actually smaller -the average loss is 65% the size of the winning trade target. Again: 83% wins where the wins are 154% larger than the losses, where the MAXIMUM loss is equal to ONE winning trade = you do the math. I have, and the result is effectively unlimited profits as a function only of what is invested. Trading any given currency pair in my testing resulted in an average of 750% annual return from approximately 100 trades per year (per instrument) and my desire is to trade 4-6 pairs simultaneously and target returns which will only serve to make this post seem even more outlandish to all.

FAQ: [I]backtesting? Meh… tons of systems backtest well but don’t work!
[/I]Answer: YES, but this system seeks gains large enough and with enough foresight that limit orders are easily used so entry and exit at or within pips of the targets is all but guaranteed. Also, this system is like I said, 100% mechanical meaning the biggest variable in backtesting is eliminated (the human element: errors, emotions, judgement calls, etc). I can say with 100% confidence that this system will trade EXACTLY as it backtests (this statement is no doubt very stinky to many of you as with what most know that isn’t possible - it is with what I am doing). I can say with confidence that if this system were traded over the past 365 days, the result would have been +750% trading the EUR/USD alone on 115 trades. Add in additional currency pairs and you can begin to feel my excitement.

[I]What you’re describing isn’t possible! You sound like a naive idiot[/I]. I agree. If myself of 2 months ago were to be reading this I’d think the same. It isn’t possible with what I knew from 10+ years of playing in the market; but long story short - I’ve had a revelation and am staring at unlimited free money. No, not possible with the systems and charts probably everyone is staring at and I stared at for over a decade. I’ve shifted my entire mindset and the results are staggering.

I provide that back story so that my request is taken seriously. I am 100% committed to getting this off the ground ASAP. I am working full time but need to find the capital to get this off the ground so I can make these 300 trades a year and produce the 1000%+ return.
[B]BACK TO THE POINT OF THIS THREAD::::

Where can a trader, like myself, who is sitting on absolute gold, go to get off the ground. Please help me evaluate the ideas currently in my head, and I’m hoping someone has a better one:
[/B]
1)Rich friends. I have them. Rich people love nothing more than to invest in ideas like this and I’m 95% confident I can get more than enough money with fairly minimal effort through this avenue. The downsides: 1) they are friends, I don’t like discussing finances with friends 2) since I would be managing their account, understandably, the majority of the profits would need to go to them 3) I hate convincing people of things. Ideally, I find a way to finance this thing on my own accord. The idea of having to talk someone into ‘investing’ in me is wholly unappealing to me. Nonetheless, this remains a possibility and as I consider the alternatives, it may be the most realistic.

2)Piece it together from my own finances. Tax return coming in, I have some home equity, my brokerage takes $5k per month credit card deposits, 401k, etc. I could probably piece together about 50k which is enough clearly with the 750% returns to make a living but ultimately that isn’t a lot of money and being undercapatalized in such a way would adversely affect my risk:reward tolerance making 750% alot less likely. This is a possibility, but I don’t like it. If i could piece together 100k I’d feel alot better about this option. 50k just feels a little tight, even with the gold I’m sitting on.

3)slow and steady wins the race. Take a piece of #2, say 10k and over the course of 2 years turn it into 100k by trading in the evenings and on the weekends. This is my absolute last resort: a) that is an incredible amount of patience when again, I’m sitting on solid gold. and b) I’ve done the full time trading + full time working game for years - it’s a hellish workload that is a drain unlike what I want to experience again. If I’m going to be trading for 50 hours a week, that’s my job. I’ve got a family and I’ve put them through enough Full time job + full time trader for one lifetime. So, while this remains a viable last resort option, it is definitely ‘last resort’.

[B]WHAT ELSE IS THERE?
[/B]Prop Shops - I know very little about these but could this be the answer I’m looking for?

Banks - maybe not a traditional bank like US Bank or BOA, but are there any financial institutions that might be something I should look into?

Private funding - (again, not soliciting here), is there any organizations I should look into which fund ventures like this with private equity?

[B]Anything else I am not considering?
[/B]

Wow - sorry guys, I type fast and that thread really got away from me. Feel free to skip to the bolded question 2/3 of the way down since it’s not until then that I get to the point. Brevity is an art I have not mastered…

2

Well you can look at zulutrader. If your system is that good then you can make some good money from commissions there. You can also check out currencee

3

Sounds really interesting. But right now it’s just an idea.

Why not trade it on a smallish account for a few months to make sure it works? After you’ve got some data I would happily help you take it to market.

I work with a number of large investors and I’m also very experienced in the forex signal and EA industry. If you can make the kind of returns that you say you can then I’m the kind of guy you should be talking to :slight_smile:

Feel free to PM me your information and we’ll connect.

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If you want to get people to give you money, this includes the prop shop, bank and private investor angle it will be difficult to get them to buy in unless you have a proven track record. So i would focus on this first.

5

Sorry but its pretty obvious you are talking total crap. So you are telling us that you are experienced and smart enough to come up with a 100% mechanical system that can give you 750% per instrument yet you cant cobble together enough cash to trade it yourself (even micro lots). Total BS.

God this forum is turning into a 100% spam and BS. Full of idiots like you and the bigger idiots who believe this crap

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But he said he made money with absolutely no proof, i dont get how that is an issue?

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This is just trolling spam. This system is 1:1 or better R:R, capable of 750% per year per instrument. Its been tested over several years and 1000s of trades by an experienced trader yet he cant actually afford to trade it on even micro lots. Its just BS. This is a trading forum. Its for sharing systems, getting feedback and improving systems. Nobody is interested in some moron troll bragging about an amazing system that they dont actually trade.

Sir M, Just **** off and find another forum to troll. Your talking crap and you know it

8

I second that. Sir M please go eat a big fat bag of d1cks.

9

Wow! Okay, clearly I probably should have just started with my question! I’m thinking how myself of 2 months ago would read my post and without a little back story the proper response would have been “don’t trade someone elses money - world of trouble”; I was trying to paint the picture for my eagerness to get this going and avoid simply getting advice on the feasibility. Again, the me from two months ago would have many issues with my post like all of you did - but the me of today has a market approach unlike anything I’ve ever even considered.

So to address some of this:

[B]liftoff [/B]- I appreciate the ideas, thats the sort of thing I’m hoping for. Making money off comissions sounds like I’d be having people trade my system which I have 0 interest in (or at least until I’ve generated all I or my kids kids would ever need). Again: billion dollar ticket I’m sitting on, I mean to take a much larger chunk of it than comissions. I’m have no idea what ‘curencee’ is, I believe I’ve heard the brand before, but I’ll take a look. Thanks again.

[B]I love tech analysis [/B]- your openmindedness is a fanastic sign for your potential in this business (if it hasn’t already served you well). See my paragraph below to all. Regarding “seeing if it works”. This is nothing like what I’m doing obvioulsy but I use this random analogy to make a point about back testing: Imagine a system where you short the eur/chf with a limit order every time that pair drops below a round dollar figure. I.e. if you see eur/chf headig down to 1.24, you put in a sell limit order at 1.2399. You then put in a pre-set target take profit and stop loss. Every trade is set up exactly the same way. This is obviously silly (readers: do not do this) but is an example of a (bad) 100% mechanical system. My point is that with a 100% mechanical system: backtesting [I]is [/I]valid. The person who wanted to trade that sysem could say with 100% confidence that “if I traded this system for the past year and captured every opportunity: my equity curve line would appear as”. Most systems you can’t do this because the human element makes it impossible to say with 100% confience where you would have entered, exited, and whether you would have taken the trade at all. Now when you factor in volume with a system: ~100 trades per year per instrument the backtesting is given even greater credibility as clear consistency and resiliance is being displayed. All that said, the trading a small account is an option but not in my top considerations. Like I mentioned, I may trade a small ammount of cash as I continue to work full time until that cash snowballs to the point I can exit the 2-career world. Had I not already done this, it would be a more attractive option. It takes a hell of a toll on health, happiness, and family. The other alternative is to “cobble” together from my own personal resources the minimum ammount I would need to take off and go full time right away but having already worked as an undercapatalized trader: my preference is not to jump back into the arena with “the minimum”. Granted that the maximum consecutive losses my system ever backtested was 3, the drawdown risk is very low, I still have feelings of being undercapatalized in my mouth and I want to avoid that if I can. My ideal circumstance is a ‘prop shop’ or some sort of institution that provides (somehow) greater than the standard 50:1 leverage via a credit line or sometihng like that, I have no clue whats out there (hence this post)

[B]pipwhip [/B]- yes, that is about what I expect for random banks, random private investors, etc. I wrote this post not looking for random private investors. I’ve got people in my life who would be happy to take a percieved risk (emphasis on percieved, as I won’t try too hard to convince them how bullet proof an idea I have, I’ll be in this thing either way, one way or another.). I was hoping for insights on things like prop shops or the like that might have some collateral system for trading their cash. I’ve got a couple houses (and a couple of mortgages - but a good ammount of equity), I can get some cash. I’m not even sure what sort of prop-shop-system I was hoping to read about but figured there might be something out there. Regarding your second post, made me chuckle a bit, but seriously - read below.

[B]Mata [/B]- yes, any one given trade would be 1:1 at worst but like any good system, the results are consistent and frequent enough that I care absolutely 0 about any one given trade. So, no, never 1:1 looking at it in the big picture. Under no given 10 trade or greater snapshot would the R:R be only 1:1. The worst R:R I’ve seen in a given year of testing any instrument is 1:1.33 and the average is 1:1.54. Also, yes, I can ‘cobble’ together enough to trade this myself and am presently figuring out how I will get this off the ground and that is ONE of the options. I threw this line out to the trading community at large to make sure I wasn’t missing any better options than those I am considering. Why would someone make a post like mine if their question wasn’t genuine? Fun? Sadly, I don’t have that sort of free time and I’m certain it wouldn’t be spent like that. Swimming, golfing, or sleeping more likely.
[B]
All who cannot comprehend these results [/B]- doubt my history and experience if you want, that’s fair… but my insight to you is that having now seen the results of a ‘holy grail’ system: you are overly pessimistic. The truth is the numbers I list above a) are factual and b) are not even best-case optimized number! I’m CERTAIN I could tweek my system and find the perfect instrument it works with and throw out some really insane numbers but in my testing I’m just looking at the instruments I know. My point is, the above numbers are very realistic, not dressed up, and in no way cherry picked. Producing fantastic results requires having an open mindset becuase what turned the light on for me is my open mind and discovering something fantastic about the way the markets work. I’ve read so many dozens of analysis and trading books and this sort of insight is (almost suspiciously) absent. Ever have an “aha!” moment? A 10 year trader, myself, had that recently regarding a subject I thought I knew inside and out. I promise you the only reason is because I am naturally openminded/inquisitive. Lose the pessimism, or you’re destined for mediocrity.

[B]BACK TO THE TOPIC [/B]- any other insights on/sources of funding? (insights please, I think all the criticism/doubts/etc that needs to be said has been said). Anybody very knowledable on prop shops and/or similar resources?

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If i assume for a second that you are not a total spiv i will say that you should look down the private investor route and not the prop shop route.

I have had the plesure of working for some and interviewing with many. They will want to know exactly what youre doing in detail and more often than not still show you the door after they have bled most of the IP from you. The best thing for you to do, is get a real track record and then run managed accounts on behalf of other investors with a performance split. This is normally simpler for legal/accounting reasons. The investor route will be better as they will ask less questions about the strategy compared with a professional investment house. That said if you turn up with nothing more than a promise you are more likely than not going to be shown the door.

11

Interesting Sir M
But… you have a little problem with this part of your post (the bold bit)

& the definition of the bold bit as quoted by:

factual - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

Says below (bold emphasis is mine)

                                             [B]Factual[/B]

If something is factual, it [B]can be proven[/B], like your mother’s story about the bear that is factual because she took a picture of it standing next to the family car.

Something factual is real. It is based in fact, meaning it [B]can be proven, repeated or observed[/B]. In fact, fact is the root of the word factual, from the Latin word factum, meaning “event, occurrence.” The factual part of a story is the part that really happened — the rests gets more outlandish and make-up every time someone tells it. Evidence makes something factual.

So until you can [B]prove it[/B] to someone else, it’s just a theory & requires our faith in you that you are telling the truth.

Probably you would have gotten a better response if you hadn’t included “Holy grail” in your title, sort of asking to be hacked to pieces in here :wink:

[B]But[/B] fortunately for you I think there is quite a good way to prove your theory.

Open a small account & live trade it linked to myfxbook (fxbook should be paying me a good commission for all the advertising I do for them sheesh!) & let the world see how great your system is.

The added bonus is this way you don’t even have to reveal your trading system for others to copy!

I can almost guarantee you there will be no shortage of followers wanting to throw their money @ you!
Good Luck!

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thanks guys. Regarding the private investor interviews you’ve been in, you’ve only confirmed my paranioa about keeping the strategy close to the vest. Further compounding my paranoia is how simple my strategy is. It came to light almost instantly with an ‘aha’ moment and in this game we are all competitors so I have no interest in sharing my edge until it’s purpose is served for me personally. Prop shops - why a no go? Again, I know nothing of them, not even really sure their purpose - but should it not even be a consideration for funding?

That fx website which shows the returns makes sense and I can see value there. The catch 22 though is that if I decide to kill myself by trading this system on a small scale while continuing to work, by the time the results are noteworthy I will have built the account to a size I no longer care about anyone elses money or opinion.

Anyway I appreciate the insights all - it doesn’t sound like I was missing anything particularly noteworthy and needing to be folded into consideration in this process.

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But it’s not the size of the account that’s the issue.

This is why I think a small micro lot account ($1000.00 lets say) would suffice as any discerning trader / investor could see the preformance of your system & then link to you in zulutrade.com & you’d be well on the way.

The internet’s got all sorts of rescources & tools to easily help verify someone as credible & genuine.

Odd it is that virtually no one that makes a claim of success / prowess can seem to be able to action the tools available…

Makes one wonder doesn’t it… :33:

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[QUOTE=“Sir M;592239”]thanks guys. Regarding the private investor interviews you’ve been in, you’ve only confirmed my paranioa about keeping the strategy close to the vest. Further compounding my paranoia is how simple my strategy is. It came to light almost instantly with an ‘aha’ moment and in this game we are all competitors so I have no interest in sharing my edge until it’s purpose is served for me personally. Prop shops - why a no go? Again, I know nothing of them, not even really sure their purpose - but should it not even be a consideration for funding? That fx website which shows the returns makes sense and I can see value there. The catch 22 though is that if I decide to kill myself by trading this system on a small scale while continuing to work, by the time the results are noteworthy I will have built the account to a size I no longer care about anyone elses money or opinion. Anyway I appreciate the insights all - it doesn’t sound like I was missing anything particularly noteworthy and needing to be folded into consideration in this process.[/QUOTE]

You keep talking about the time consumption that trading your “Holly Grail” entails, and it’s the thing that bothers me the most… It’s 100% mechanical!!! How can a simple 100% mechanical system be so taxing on your life?

Nevertheless, I would go the private client route… No one will want to know the how, just the How Much.

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green as grass - maybe I will do that. I’m not sure where I’m headed at the moment, still wrapping my head around the situaton and trying to get a grasp of all options before I spend too much time disecting them and pursuing any one of them. The reasons I wouldn’t be excited to trade a tiny account to prove the system are time and opportunity. Until I and only if I ever program a bot to do the trading for me, trading this system would not be fun with a full time job and as I’ve mentioned - it simply wouldn’t be fair to my family for me to jump back into stretching myself that thin again. Maybe this will be the route, but I’ll do that via a bot. And if I program a bot, I’ll feed it enough money that in a years time I’ll be set for financing. So that is definitely and end-result route, not a means to get financing route. Ultimately though… I’d rather not wait a year for the day I’m ‘all in’ and am simply brainstorming with you fine gentlemen any potential avenues I havent considered. I will probably research programing a bot more heavily as a result of these discussions so it’s doing me some good…

Second, the opportunity - disregarding the very rightful skepticism and doubts contained here, I have no doubts in the system and would pursue options that get me going instantly before I pursued the ‘trade tiny, prove it, attract investors’ option. If I were without resources, yes, that might be the best route for me. But I’ve got people in my circle that may fund, I’ve got some personal finance avenues, and I’m writing this post to see what else is out there in terms of insta-financing.

Sounds like there isn’t a lot. I’ll be looking into prop shops a bit and bot programing but the long path toward luring private funds isn’t a route I’ll need to consider with my alternatives.

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abrsive - perhaps my terminology isn’t perfectly used here. By 100% mechanical I simply mean that my system produces 100% defined entrance and exit points which are seen with plenty of advance notice to enter careful, and triplechecked orders. I call it mechanical because the system requries (and allows for) 0 discretion on when, which, how to trade which completely removes the human element.

So no, not automated (yet), but is perfectly suited for automation as the rules would be easily programed and very black and white.

So, why this is time consuming? While discretion isn’t needed, in the absence of a bot, I would need to sit in front of my computer and excecute the system. I’d be watching for the signals and placing the orders. Surely a great deal of attention is not needed to watch for the signals but enough that it would be impossible while I’m working and a drain at the very least on my ability to function as a normal perosn outside of work. I may be being dramatic and there is probably software that could signal me in a number of ways when certain critera are met at which point I could saddle up to my computer. Another thing for me to look into…

I’ll be running with this thing here soon enough, just not certain how yet. I do appreciate everyones input as it gets the wheels turning on different ways to accomplish this.

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It could also be my understanding issues, as I seem to be the only one to question this… It’s quite clear now.

I have another series of questions. Is the large investment you are looking for supposed to allow you quit your job job and dedicate yourself full time to trading the system? Manually? Do you have EA programming skills?

As I understand it, you have created a very restrictive group of options due to the necessary secrecy. You can’t get someone to program it for you and you can’t get public or private investment (other than friends and family) because you have no track record… So that just leaves the DIY option.

18

I don’t quite understand the problem here. If you have a brilliant and fully automated trading system, just turn it on with a $1000 account and let the balance grow. be patient for maybe two years. Do not withdraw a penny. And one day you’ll wake up and realise you’re rich.

Or is that naive?

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abrsive - correct, yes. Starting with a sizable account in the beginning allows me to focus solely on it. Manually at first while simultaneously working towards making a bot for it. I don’t have EA programing skills but I’m certain I could get it done. Even without looking for it, through my time in the trading world I’ve noticed the mountains of information on programing out there so I feel fairly confident that I could find the information I need to program my system in to a bot online. Without knowing anything about it though, I suspect going from novice to completed functioning bot will be very time consuming and frusterating so I do know that much going in to it. In my youth I played with basic & c++ for fun and am fairly saavy with these sorts of things so I do feel good about my ability to digest what is out there and apply it.

Your absolutely right about why many of the options are restricted or undesirable: under no circumstances would I pull these cards from my vest. I know that means passing up potentially many sources of insta-funding. I’m thinking it’s going to be a prop shop or similar if I can find an accomodating/appropriate one for the situation, funding from someone I know, or a BOT working an account of my own funds as quickly as I can get it up and running.

We’ll see - still lots of reserach to do in getting this off the ground. Much appreciated again.

Jeex - it is brilliant, yes :slight_smile: not fully automated though. One of my potential avenues is building this bot to do it and stay patient since he’ll be working with less than ideal capital. It’s worth my considering alternatives though because rapid external funding would produce significantly greater returns than a bot turning a 5-10k account. Like I said, I think programing the bot is no small task and will take a great deal of time and effot so no, I havn’t got this to the point that just turning it on is an option.

someday :slight_smile:

20

It sounds like you’ve got all the info you need based on the answers you’ve been given here.

So it’s time to show yourself what you can do and put the strategy into action on a small account.

Please let me know how you go.

Don’t take too much notice of doubters here. You do sound like a bit of a dreamer and the strategy obviously sounds too good to be true, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an opportunty.

Hit me up at nick (at) thinkhuge.net once you’ve got a bit of trading history.