It seems the gun lobby in the US are more worried about the risk of the unlawful oppression of the entire population of the US than the unlawful killing of isolated and innocent pockets of people in the US.
No debate that fundamental and complicated is likely to be resolved by a simple and narrow piece of law which bans something. There are bigger questions for America in this debate than how to stop school attacks.
Wouldn’t some gun laws stop some violent crimes? I mean you wouldn’t know if it worked until time has passed and you look at the stats.
I don’t have an answer. But a fix needs to start somewhere.
Do they know where the guns are coming from? Somebody buying them legally and then selling them illegally? Or maybe from outside the country?
That is and always Was the entire intention of the second amendment put in place by some very wise old white men to protect the populus of the entire country in perpetuity !
Anyone who digs into the actual background of the individual shooters will find a lot of common ground comprising (often) a single parent mother and consistent lack of empathy / encouragement throughout their (often) brief lives. Have you seen the backgroun d documentary of teh “Dunblane” guy ?
Often they take out their own mother - (or mother substitute) at some point during the process - but since the background often discloses difficult things for “Society” / Government to answer - the universal response is One of secrecy and silence unless like the young boy a few days ago they can scream “White male supremacy”
The real issue is the demonisation of masculine values and rejection of some people from society because they simply do not “Fit in” to a pre-ordained value system of “Polite society”
The issue is quite closely related to this thread ;
What surprises me the most is not that a few men decide to commit suicide in this way - but that so few do decide to “take a piece of society with them” !
I understand a mass of unlisted guns has arrived in the UK since the collapse of the Soviet bloc in eastern Europe. They arrive mostly singly or in small numbers in vehicles using cross-Channel ferry or vehicle train routes through the Channel Tunnel. It seems a large percentage are from former military and police/security stocks but its hard to assess what proportion.
A smaller number arrive direct via delivery after purchase on the dark web.
I don’t follow. What masculine values would prevent what is happening?
That is Not what I said ! - I said
If you care to take a look at Transactional Analysis (as expounded by Eric Berne)
"An otherwise good and loviong mother - frustrated at her infant child only has to say about 3 times in anger
At an early age and the Child - being a good obedient child - will subconsciously work to fulfill his mother’s expectation - There are literally millions of cases - a friend of mine said to her daughter - “Don’t do as I did don’t get married and pregnant at 19”
The Girl was a good girl and obeyed her mother’s every word - getting pregnant and then married at 18 
Every person reading this will be able to furnish their own examples.
The Jesuit “educators” used to say
All of these young boys have been through a whole lifetime of being persecuted simply because of their sex - and every boy at school who actually behaves like a boy will be punished, excluded and / or drugged into passivity - until they learn to “behave” as a “good little girl”.
I cite 2 vids you could watch - but there are many - 1 is “Red Pill” - Cassie Jaye (but you will have to pay a dollar or two - the other is this one
After which Peterson stated that one of his regrets was his reference to MGTOW as “weasels”
Mate I cannot explain to you in a few words - although here is another of my threads which shows the abolute futility of any man - particularly a white man attempting to gain recognition in life through the essentially masculine values of competence and self-reliance !
Mate I cannot answer your question in one post - but go looking for “Red-Pill” and MGTOW - you’ll find all you need to know - or even read some of my other threads - like the two I have linked to here.
Finally a Quote from Douglas Murray
Interesting tho’ why you all seem so devastated and fired up by the murder of a few children by boys when your own Government is actively seeking to legalise teh murder fo millions of children annually by women ?
People who want to commit a crime with a gun tend to get them by buying them illegally from the street. I don’t know how you can stop that process.
That would be the main source of illegally obtained guns.
Most people assume these gun lobbyists want to prevent the government from taking your guns. They would be wrong because the government is not trying to take away your right to own a gun; lobbyists are pushing to get as many guns in the hands of the people with the fewest restrictions.
LOBBYING TO PASS
Federal laws to maximize the spread of guns pushed by NRA lobbyists
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which gives gun makers immunity from lawsuits
Tiahrt Amendments
Prohibits using evidence of a gun dealer’s link to guns used in a crime to revoke licensing
Prohibits FBI from retaining records of gun buyers who pass background checks beyond 24 hours
MAXIMIZING SALES TO CRIMINALS
Stop gun trafficking
Close gun show, private sale, and online loopholes.
DISINFORMATION
The NRA creates and disseminates ongoing disinformation that gun owners take as gospel, such as:
“Any federal gun law will lead to government confiscation.” Implying that no gun safety laws should ever be passed.
“Law-abiding citizens never break the law.” Every criminal was once a law-abiding citizen.
“The problem is mental illness (or gangs)—not guns." Other developed countries have gangs and mental illness but they don’t have gun-violence epidemics.
“It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun.” Approximately 300 law enforcement officers (good guys) are shot or killed by guns each year according to the National Gun Violence Archive.
MONEY AND RESOURCES
According to the recent figures from ProPublica:
The NRA has 920 employees and total revenues of $367 million, according to their 2016 tax filing.
Other pro-gun groups have considerable resources. According to the last available tax filings, in 2016 the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) had $43 million in revenues and 57 employees, Gun Owners of America (GOA) in 2017 had $2.3 million in revenues and 15 employees, and the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) in 2015 had $4.1 million in revenues and 14 employees. The combined resources of the NRA and these groups equal $418 million in revenues and 1,006 employees.
Gun-violence prevention groups have far less resources. According to the last available tax filings, in 2016 Everytown for Gun Safety had $39 million in revenue and 184 employees, in 2016 the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence had $6.1 million in revenue and 38 employees, and Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence had $1.4 million of revenue and 63 employees. Combined, the groups have approximately $46.5 million and approximately 285 employees.
The NRA funds pro-gun candidates’ campaigns, including $100 million spent to help Donald Trump get elected president.
AGGRESSIVE STATE-BY-STATE STRATEGIES
Laws that are passed on a state-by-state basis that:
SUPPRESSING PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS DATA AND RESPONSES
The NRA quashed proven scientific information that shows:
The effects on public health by the NRA mirror how the tobacco industry suppressed links between smoking and cancer for decades.
Physicians are being stopped from inquiring about the presence of guns in the homes of vulnerable patients.
There are 14,500 gun homicides a year and 89,000 non-fatal gun injuries a year––an enormous attack on public health yet the NRA blocks any laws that would stop it. Compare this response to the 2018 e coli outbreak from romaine lettuce: there were only 62 cases resulting in 25 hospitalizations and no deaths, and yet, to stop it the lettuce was removed immediately from shelves across the nation to protect public health.
You can see from the above that American government does not serve the people, but is sold out to the highest bidder
That’s right in the UK also.
I suspect that the vast majority of mass shootings have been carried out -
The phenomenon of mass killings needs to be better explored before going down the cul de sac of gun regulation to stop mass school shootings. Otherwise the risk is just switching from mass shootings to mass stabbings and from school attacks to mall attacks.
I agree
You may not be able to stop these types of mass shootings due to the reasons you mentioned.
In relying on others to tell them how to think and behave, the American people have allowed themselves to be misled by this guy and many others.
Tucker Carlson suggested that coronavirus pandemic lockdowns ― not guns ― were to blame for recent mass shootings in the U.S.
Point proven
On a strategic level, I hope Americans are not encouraged to think that stronger government legislation and enforcement departments and bureaucracy will eliminate the issues of violence in US society.
As examples of how the US state manages things it gets deeply involved in the healthcare, education, immigration and taxation systems should be notable examples. On top of which it seems that a large slice of the US population distrust their own law enforcement, national security and the military / defence industry partnership.
More government like these isn’t going to make for progress.
80% of the time, the United States government passes laws based on lobbying interests that benefit those groups, so let’s see how well our government performs without these groups dictating our laws.
Once again, these proposed laws won’t stop mass shootings because the guns used in these type of shootings are legally purchased by the shooter, unless there is a criterion by which they can spot a mass shooter
Remember
Stephen Paddock, the man whose Las Vegas shooting rampage killed 58 people and left more than 500 injured, bought 33 guns in the past year, a law enforcement official said Wednesday.
Some of Paddock’s gun purchases date back more than 20 years, but authorities have determined that more than 30 of the firearms were acquired in the past 12 months, the official said.
What’s not talked about as much is the constant shootings in a daily basis .
The mass shootings are horrific.
On a daily basis the numbers killed or shot in seperate incidents are like a mass shooting a day
facts :+1 :A terrorist act is considered one thing, while ordinary gun crimes are considered another, that would be the diffrence
I get where you’re coming from. Us govt doesn’t have a great track record of managing big systems.
But if not the govt, then who? Regular people changing? Not going to happen. Gun industry? Not going to happen. too much money involved. Mental health industry? → See healthcare industry. Healthcare and insurance companies? Not going to happen. Too much money involved. Mental health resources you say?
Well, maybe, if you can afford health insurance. Otherwise, too expensive. You need somebody not involved in the cost benefit analysis BS of making decision that affect regular people.
I’m sorry, but I feel like somebody with a single gun or rifle is more likely to kill more people than a person with a knife will get the chance to. We don’t have mass stabbings every other week. Why? Because they’re slow and can’t do the maximum damage that a $300 rifle can do.
Get guns off the street? Buy backs? This isn’t meant to attract criminals. But it guns out of homes where they could be used or stolen or misfired.
Yea, I agree with this for sure.
Yea, it’s crazy the amount of gun crime there is in the US.
They need to be fired if this is true
The Associated Press reported on Wednesday that onlookers urged police to go into the school and stop the massacre, to no avail. “Go in there! Go in there!” women shouted, according to one witness. Javier Cazares, whose daughter Jacklyn was killed, said police were congregated outside the building when he arrived, prompting him to suggest other bystanders rush to try to stop the carnage themselves. “Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”
I don’t think there’s a practical way of identifying all of the potential perpetrators of mass killings.
But focusing on the weapon is so obviously not going to work, there are too many alternatives - bombs, arson, unlawful firearms, trucks, aircraft, knives, machetes etc.: even mass poisonings occur in the absence of more dramatic weapon choices.
To be honest, the US is one of the few countries I would ever consider emigrating to (from the UK) and I’d feel a lot happier if I could get hold of a gun as soon as I got there.
