You’ve totally missed the point of my post & the thread, but you’re not the only one so don’t get too down on yourself.
Go sit somewhere nice & quiet, clear the head & think about what it is that’s actually being discussed here. It’s not deep, it’s not difficult.
Nice sermon though….I’ll give it a 6 from 10 because you obviously prepared well.
lol, funny thread. so if i wanna buy a couple of chocolate bars i better not, since i’m gambling with my health.
pffff, what a joke. talk about extending a word’s meaning.
TalonD,
The important thing is how do you perceive it. If you believe trading is gambling then you will act like a gambler. If on the other hand you perceive trading as an investment your mindset will be entirely different. The difference between a professional gambler and a professional trader is absolutely zero and both will prosper as both are committed to learning before trading any real amount of money.
The problem is with the non-professional gambler is he will play this game without respect to his actions. Most are arrogant or just plain stupid and believe they will win at this game and become rich. They end up trading to trade with only dreams in their head of the riches they will attain. Even when losing they are still committed to making the next trade until their account is totally wiped out.
These traders trade with white knuckles and sweat on their brow and look at losing as just bad luck. You can find these people all over threads like Babypips looking for the Holy Grail of systems to nullify there lack of trading skills. The Martingale system is one that comes to mind. They actually may find some success but their lack of money management and Risk/Reward concepts will still be their undoing.
The zero account balance I’m afraid is still in their future and the little success they have only delays this inevitable event. They will never learn that both hope and luck have no place in trading. The minute a trader starts hoping, praying or damning their bad luck it’s time for an reassessment of their reasons for trading and the goal they’re trying to reach.
Master Tang,
Damn and I had money on that horse.
FX1 - well said, it’s all about how you perceive it.
metrix,
No charge for the sermon. Now you can skip church and play golf instead. If you want to gamble with your soul that is.
The smart money is most definately on Metrix
Master Tang,
Yes, he was a professional gambler. The point I was making was a professional gambler or a professional trader does things in a professional manner. He has done his homework and hence his success.
I also took the chance to needle Metrix a bit. I have read his posts before and know he has the intelligence to become a great trader if he isn’t already.
I must admit that a lot of what’s written in books and on sites like this turns out to be crap once you’ve become more knowledgeable. Most don’t get that far into the learning process and could be considered still in grade school. They remind me of Jethro on the Beverly Hillbillies.:rolleyes:
This is the key. It’s a percentage/numbers game.
There are many good traders, fund managers, investors out there and it is possible to play the averages in your favour same as with poker.
Is it gambling? It’s a bet on the direction of the market with no 100% certain outcome but there is a percentage outcome that can be applied to every trade that is not as simple as 50:50.
The real crux of the matter comes down to mathematics, gambling is something simply assigned to casino type games but it could be anything, houses, driving, flying.
It’s an application of probability …
I assume you are referring to the word gamblng, how has its meaning been extended ?
Would it not be more accurate to say, you never really understood the meaning of gambling in the first place and substituted it with an innacurate definition of your own, therefore you find this discussion about the real meaning of gambling a little beyond your comprehension ?
I don’t see how his statement warranted this response.
I think his post was in agreement with you, and the license to extend the meaning was directed at the “investors”, or “speculators”, or “hedge fund directors”…
Otherwise known as “bettors” or “players”, or in some cases “whales”… 
FX1,
Some of the comments in post #59 directed toward metrix are the stereotypical view associated more with addictive, compulsive behavior types who usually operate with no clear or pre-planned schedule.
You’re also assuming because of his willingness to accept the status of gambler, he’s somehow a novice or naïve participant in this business?
Successful gamblers (traders) aren’t reckless individuals who disrespect risk & operate devoid of any strategy or bet management procedures, in fact quite the opposite.
I could be mistaken, but I doubt you know metrix or simbafx or Master Tang or SDC or anyone else personally here on this thread? therefore, how do you know how they approach & execute their work?
Just because they’re comfortable adopting the handle of gambler doesn’t automatically indicate a cavalier attitude towards their business objectives.
metrix (& simbafx) was right about one thing though. This thread is indeed an amusing & enlightening snapshot in psychology & attitudes.
[B]Talon D asked….[/B]
Does if matter if you call it gambling or not?
[B]Simbafx then replied……[/B]
Yes it matters a great deal. Being honest with yourself is one of the first hurdles in a long line of psychological issues that you may need to deal with.
This is a very fair statement and because of the confusion, I am going to attempt some clarifications here. 
Firstly, I think there is general agreement that we need a definition of gambling.
From there we can asses forex trading to see if it fits the definition.
So far, a dictionary definition has been given.
I am going to contend that this is insufficient and does not fully explain what is involved in gambling.
I am going to propose something more comprehensive…
[B]1) Gambling involves seeking or getting a reward on the dictates of a random number generator.[/B]
Normally work is done to get a reward - work = pay, no work = no pay.
This is not a random activity.
[B]2) No actual work is done in getting this reward - no new energy is added to the system.[/B]
Normally work is done to provide get a reward.
[B]3) Because no actual work is done, no goods or services are provided in gambling.[/B]
In the real world, work and effort is made for just reward - this work results in the provision of goods or services.
[B]4) Because there is a limited pile, gambling ensures that there are losers as well as winners.[/B]
This is very different from the real world where (assuming honesty), a work output bringing goods/services gurantees reward for that output.
There are no losers at all.
[B]5) Other – there may be other criterion that I have not added here.[/B]
I would also like to differentiate between [B]risk [/B]and [B]gambling[/B].
Many noble things are done in the world that carry high risk.
These activities provide goods and services.
Their rate of possible failure can be high.
But that does not make it gambling.
[B]Lets have a look at what attracts people to gambling…[/B]
As an example I will take the purchase of a lottery ticket that has a prize of several million dollars.
[B]Going thro the criterion set above…[/B]
Random outcomes.
NO.
People are not attracted to such a lottery because of a random outcome.
The probability of winning is very low.
If anything, the contestants would like a 100% probability of winning.
Limited pile - losers as well as winners.
NO.
People are not attracted to such a lottery because of the possibility of loss.
The loss, of course, is the ticket price.
No one is in the lottery just to lose their money.
They are attracted to the possibility of win - the prize.
No goods or services provided.
NO.
Who cares about goods and services. :rolleyes:
There are several million dollars to be won just by waiting till the day of the draw.
No actual work is done.
YES!!
Because mankind has fallen, [B]Genesis 3:19[/B], states that we shall do work for the rest of our days to get reward.
This work will involve pain, much sacrifice, time, tribulation and will wear us out.
Work may bring reward slowly – a lifetime of work may bring only small reward.
So when we are offered several million dollars for doing absolutely nothing, it appeals greatly to man’s sinful nature.
The no pain – no gain formula is totally circumvented, and the easy road to complete comfort is offered.
This is the great attractive lure of gambling.
[B]Great riches for absolutely no work input whatsoever.[/B]
[B]Having said all this, we now come to forex.[/B]
Is forex gambling?
Does it neatly fit the above criterion?
Does it neatly NOT fit the above criterion?
And what if it only partly fits the above criterion?
[B]Lets see…………………………[/B]
[B]1) Reward based on random outcomes.[/B]
Even a person that is a newbie to trading can soon see that the price action candles on a trading chart are derived from historical data.
There is no randomness here, instead trends are formed frequently.
We have a phrase “the trend is your friend” and profits are made using this mantra.
The “random walk theory” is nonsense. 
What the price was yesterday, determines what the price is today.
The price is not picked out of a hat.
The general logical order of pricing even allows us to program indicators which help us to try to discern future price action.
Therefore, it is possible to make profits out of a trading market.
In a random outcome situation, such as a roulette wheel, it does not require an extensive mathematical background to look at the 37/38 identically sized pockets (note the 35-1 payoff on a single number), and conclude that the game is unbeatable.
There is no indicator construction here and no trends whatsoever (just standard deviation).
If fact if there was a trend, the roulette wheel would soon be taken out of action!!
[B]Next factor – NEXT POST.[/B]
2 + 3) No actual work done + no goods or services.
Here I present a complete surprise…….
[B]Rhodytrader, Honorary FX Member[/B], our master trader on this forum, states………
You do realize, right, that the forex market is the basis for global trade? When you participate in it you contribute to the liquidity of the market for the exchange of currencies which is fundamental to the flow of goods and services around the world.
Further to this, [B]Clint, Honorary FX Member[/B], states………
Speculators, for their part, provide a vital service to the commercial interests by providing ample, round-the-clock liquidity to the forex market, and by assuming currency-risk which the commercial interests choose to shed.
AND
The forex market is not a casino, because the risks inherent in it are business risks, created in the course of world trade, which must be borne by someone.
It looks very much like the trading of forex if doing work – providing a much needed service.
The full article can be read………
http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/20778-ethics-question.html
[B]NEXT POST.[/B]
As an example, we can have a town with a set population and a food shop is set up.
It is the only one in town and, therefore, has all the customers.
If other food shops set up, there will be competition and the one shop will lose customers.
If this shop is poorly run, it could well lose all of its customers.
There are many other cases that you can think of where competition can create losers.
But is it gambling?
So, in conclusion, what are we to say?
If we include all the criteria, then forex is NOT gambling.
Nevertheless, some sort of doubt still remains.
What about blackjack (card counting) and horse racing where predictive skill is used to improve the odds?
Well, the random outcome factor is still there, and also no work input (useful goods or services) are provided.
So these definitely fit in the category of gambling.
[B]NEXT POST.[/B]
[B]I think we can give a final answer by looking at the difference between risk and gambling.[/B]
Walking to a shop and buying something is a productive activity.
But what if there is a lightning storm with the possibility of being hit?
Are we now gambling?
NO.
We are taking a high risk activity, but the activity is nevertheless productive.
Around the world, especially in Iraq at present, trained, heavily armed guards are highly paid to look after workers who would otherwise be killed.
These guards face real dangers, and are paid commensurate with their work.
Is their work gambling.
NO.
They are providing a service.
It is a high risk service, but that’s just it – a servide with a risk and not gambling.
[U]We need to differentiate between the two.[/U]
[B]In summary then……………[/B]
Forex trading does not depend on random outcomes.
It provides a service, even though indirectly.
You can lose as well as win in forex – but this is possible in any business venture.
I think, therefore, that forex, while not gambling, [U]is definitely a very high risk [/U][U]activity.[/U]
Even though the trend is your friend, it is quite possible to get it wrong and lose large sums of money as a result.
We need to understand the high risks involved and not make the mistake to then say it must be gambling.
[B]High risk[/B] is the word for forex, and the brokers do us right by stating so in their brochures and websites.
We need to think carefully before entering such enterprises.
[B]I hope that I have helped clear up some of the confusion and done some justice to the issue that Simbafx has raised.[/B]
2 + 3) No actual work done + no goods or services.
Here I present a complete surprise…….
Rhodytrader, Honorary FX Member, our master trader on this forum, states………
You do realize, right, that the forex market is the basis for global trade? When you participate in it you contribute to the liquidity of the market for the exchange of currencies which is fundamental to the flow of goods and services around the world.
Further to this, Clint, Honorary FX Member, states………
Speculators, for their part, provide a vital service to the commercial interests by providing ample, round-the-clock liquidity to the forex market, and by assuming currency-risk which the commercial interests choose to shed.
AND
The forex market is not a casino, because the risks inherent in it are business risks, created in the course of world trade, which must be borne by someone.
It looks very much like the trading of forex if doing work – providing a much needed service.
This is very interesting
I think he was saying this conversation is BS, when in fact there is after all a point to all this, if you dont accept forex trading is gambling then how can you understand the whole point of developing trading methods and systems, which is not to execute perfect, profitable trades every time, it is to tip the balance of probabilities in our favour ?