i wrap up this whole conversation with saying that
let the people think what they like. if anybody is happy saying forex is gambling let him do so and vice versa
Providing a service has nothing do to with if an activity is gambling or not.
There are one criteria that need to be in place, for an activity to be gambling:
MONEY has to be STAKED on the OUTCOME of an UNCERTAIN EVENT.
That is all.
If the said activity also provides a service, that is irrelevent, if the said activity also provides moon cheese, that is irrelevent.
The difference between gambling and any of the activities you mention has nothing to do with services , it is about whether or not money is staked on the outcome of an uncertain event.
Did the person walking to the store stake money on whether or not they will be hit by lightning while they were walking there ? NO
That is the only reason they were not gambling. It has nothing to do with whether or not the activity was productive or not.
Are the heavily armed guards there for the reason that they have staked money on the outcome of an uncertain event ? NO.
They are there because they have been hired.
Therefore they are not gambling.
Also gambling does not have to depend on random outcomes this is another misconception often quoted.
The outcome only has to be uncertain, not random, it CAN be random as in gambling on dice or roulette but it does not have to be.
Sports betting does not depend on random outcomes.
In forex when you open a position did you stake money ? YES
In forex is that money a stake on the outcome of an event ? YES
Is the outcome of the event uncertain ? YES
If you correctly predicted the uncertain outcome does your original stake money increase ? YES
Those four questions are the acid test questions. If the answer to all of them is yes, it is gambling.
Semantics dude.
Exactly, so when you BUY a chocolate bar, the event is uncertain in regards to how it will affect your health. A little bit of chocolate has been proven to be good for humans, but too much and your teeth will get mashed.
So now, eating a chocolate bar every single day - is that gambling with your health or not?
Don’t avoid the question this time.
Only if there was a measurable outcome to gamble on which there may not be, eating one chocolate bar per day may not have any noticable effect that can be measured.
Now if you were to stake your health on the outcome of eating 10,000 chocolate bars would you then be gambling with your health ?
Only if you were stupid enough not to realise this would have a detrimental effect on your health. Thereby believing the outcome to be uncertain.
If you KNOW this would have a detrimental effect on your health, which obviously it would when you have gained 400 lbs, then you would not be gambling with your health because the outcome of that event would not be uncertain it would be known.
You would be eating them with the knowledge you will gain a lot of weight and be less healthy at the end of it so therefore you would not be gambling.
Also it depends on how you value your health, that is a whole other issue, to gamble to you must stake something of value on the outcome, usually money. If the stake has no intrinsic value it is not gambling.
Precisely, and this was my point.
It’s all about perception.
Some people might not give a **** if they lost their health, in the same way some people don’t give a **** if they lose their money - as is evidenced by those who persist in running crapolas such as FAPTurbo.
[QUOTE=;214984]
When I got into this a few years back, I learned. Read, studied, ate, breathed, and slept this thing.
Now I wish I could rip all that crap out of my head.
It gets in the way of profit…[/QUOTE]
Then it became gambling. Goodluck.
Thanx for setting that in concrete (not semantrix), Tymen. One’s got to shine it till it pops! No shortcuts. Godspeed.
[B]Incorrect.[/B]
I have tried to expand the definition so as to provide a basis for some agreement.
All you have done is remove the criteria in order to fulfill some blockhead agenda. 
A service is work - not gambling where there is [U]no work.[/U]
If the said activity also provides a service, that is irrelevent, if the said activity also provides moon cheese, that is irrelevent.
[B]
Repitition and incorrect.[/B]
Muddled thinking.
Money is a form of energy as an input to gambling - the output is random and loss is guaranteed to certain participants.
Providing labour is a form of energy as an input to the production of goods/services - the output is NOT random and gain is guaranteed to all.
So - YES - we do need to differentiate between the two.
The difference between gambling and any of the activities you mention has nothing to do with services , it is about whether or not money is staked on the outcome of an uncertain event.
[B]More idle repitition!![/B] (and incorrect).
Do you really understand the concept of gambling yourself?
Did the person walking to the store stake money on whether or not they will be hit by lightning while they were walking there ? NO
That is the only reason they were not gambling. It has nothing to do with whether or not the activity was productive or not.
[B]Incorrect.[/B]
They “staked” energy in walking to the shop.
Further they “staked” money when buying goods.
Are the heavily armed guards there for the reason that they have staked money on the outcome of an uncertain event ? NO.
They are there because they have been hired.
Therefore they are not gambling.
[B]Muddled thinking.[/B]
I used this as an illustration to differentiate between risk and gambling.
Clearly, you do not get it.
Also gambling does not have to depend on random outcomes this is another misconception often quoted.
The outcome only has to be uncertain, not random, it CAN be random as in gambling on dice or roulette but it does not have to be.
Sports betting does not depend on random outcomes.
[B]Irrelevant to the definition.[/B]
Whatever the outcome, it is ill gotten gain by the input of energy into a non guranteed return with losses to certain participants guaranteed.
Hence my all inclusive definition.
In forex when you open a position did you stake money ? YES
In forex is that money a stake on the outcome of an event ? YES
Is the outcome of the event uncertain ? YES
If you correctly predicted the uncertain outcome does your original stake money increase ? YESThose four questions are the acid test questions. If the answer to all of them is yes, it is gambling.
Again, [U]you have removed the fullness of my definition[/U] in order to fulfill some agenda.
According to your limited understanding above, investing or opening a business would be gambling.
I try to [U]differentiate [/U]between risk ventures which are noble and gambling which is sinful.
Clearly, you do not have the same skill. 
[B][U]In conclusion :[/U][/B]
You have been ranting on about forex being gambling ever since you came on this forum.
Yet, not so long ago, you posted a thread explaining in detail (with charts) how to make money from trend trading.
[B]This hypocrisy suggests to me that you have no idea yourself as to the status of forex trading. [/B]
[U]You have a genuine credibility problem,[/U] not only with me, but also with several of the other [B]Honorary FX Members[/B] if I recall correctly.
As such, I will not waste any further time with you - I have better things to do than argue with someone who displays neurotic ideas about forex.
I will let you have the last say (neurotic people always want the last say) but I will not be reading it.
Just one last important point to you (if you understand)…
Do you know who sponsors this forum?
Did you realise that the sponsors are looking for clients in return for their sponsorship?
Do you realise that your posts about forex=gambling are contrary to the interests of the sponsors?
Do you have any wisdom?
[B]So do not be surprised if the Admin eventually bans you from this forum. It certainly will not surprise me.[/B]
[B]If you truely believe that forex=gambling then be an honest person and leave this forum!![/B]
Don’t need luck if you have an edge;)
I might have known as soon as you got involved in this discussion you would turn it into a personal issue, havent you learned your lesson from last time you were banned from this forum for exactly that ?
If the admin had a problem with my posts they would send me an infraction, they have not.
The point of understanding that forex IS gambling is to understand the fundimental issues involved in creating a consistantly profitable trading method, which means being aware there is no way to consistantly predict the price action, it is about turning the probabilities to our favor to use a system that has more than 50% probability of making a profit.
You seem to think using charts while stating it is gambling is a contradiction. why ?
Do you think studying the form of horses while stating that horse racing bets are gambling is also a contradiction ? It is all done for the same reason, to swing the probabilities in the favor of the speculator/gambler/trader/investor whatever you prefer to call it.
If you honestly believe we should hide the fact that it is gambling from new members to appease the sponsors maybe YOU should do the honest thing.
Better still, how about you doing the thread a huge favor by following through with your earlier promise.
That way you’d save yourself from spewing out excruciatingly embarrassing comments such as the one you highlighted in big, bold blue type.
How come every time you get involved in a thread outside of your own subject matter you attempt to send it to hell in a handbasket?
Take a hike.
You might want to scoop up that laughable crap you dumped on here & take that with you too. :rolleyes:
Yes I agree. Sad sudden turn of semantrix?
I think no one gets banned so far so we all cool it now and open our platforms. Happy trading y’all.
Exactly, couldn’t agree more.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if the shoe had been on the other foot & SDC or someone else with less than Honorary status had posted those comments, that old man would have been hobbling off to the mods demanding public floggings & death by hanging.
The double standards on here are laughable.
i know, don’t worry about it guys I’m used to his ranting everytime i disagree with his comments, that “honerary fx men” title went to his head a long time ago lol
“They “staked” energy in walking to the shop.”
“Further they “staked” money when buying goods.”
lol
yeah, it’s better to buy house than to rent, if you only rent, nothing will happen, just spending money for nothing or shall we say, a lifetime satisfaction, it is still better even you will also pay the house for lifetime, at least you own the house, :D:D:D
[B]To the 4 of you spitting venom above :[/B]
Are you so bereft of understanding that you cannot see that my posts give a better insight into gambling ?
I do not need to defend myself against you - my work is self evident on this forum. 
[B]Therefore, my posts stand!![/B] 
Unlike SDC who has has yet to make up his mind whether forex is gambing or not -
if no - post something useful on this forum,
if yes - then stay true to your belief and leave.
But instead we get a politician’s answer to justify the indefensible.
This double minded behaviour is neurotic and puts and end to any credibility.
The other 3 of you are [U]but mere newbies[/U] who, given the rebuke of my comprehensive input, do nothing but bark like nuisance dogs instead of actually trying to learn something.
Do you actually trade (probably not) ?
Clearly, you have a great deal to yet learn about trading!!
But if by chance, you do actually trade, given your desire to spit venom rather than learn, your money will soon be mine because of your grossly inferior knowledge of trading.
The eventual loss of your money might just be your wake up call and humble you.
I have seen your lot before!!
You will go the way of hundreds of such like before you and after losing your money, will disappear from this forum in about 6 months.
[U]As always, [/U]I outlive these immature characters.
[B]My last post here [/B]- I came to try to inform people, not throw pearls of wisdom to dogs.
[U]The real traders here[/U] tend to be of a much more mature age, they know what life if about, and quickly gravitate to the quality threads - unlike this this thread which you have turned into a sewer.
Supposedly a good return on property investment is at least 10% a year but then you will be paying around 5% to the bank ad you never know what the housing market will do.
If you ca get yourself rent free by the time you retire then that’s a good plan.
Any business is a gamble. You’re not entirely sure what will happen in the future. But its not a gamble as in the sense of casino gambling. I’ve learned that Forex isn’t for the weak-hearted. You have to have a detached personality to persevere through it. If anyone think its gambling, theres [B]WAY[/B] too much emotion involved in your trading and I’d advise you to get out while you can and leave more money on the table for us! 
For example, you start up a telecommunications company and build a clientele list. Whether or not these clients stay with you is dependent on your determination to build a profitable company… is this not a gamble?!
Anyone who calls FX a gamble has obviously lost money or has not been successful in demo trading and has already giving up. People who don’t think its a gamble stuck with it until they got it down pat. Sure… I lost almost my whole first deposit but I knew going in that it was part of the learning experience and it would most likely happen. I mentally checked it off as a business expense or tuition cost. Now, I’m becoming consistently profitable.
[B]THINK OF YOUR FIRST FEW YEARS IN FOREX AS IF YOU WERE A COLLEGE STUDENT. YOU HAVE TO [I]LEARN[/I] BEFORE YOU CAN [I]DO[/I].[/B]
p.s. - Ironically, emotions move the market and most people can spot these common “emotion patterns”. Price will not move pip by pip to the T, but you can get an idea of where its going.
I have to disagree. Trading is gambling, and I consider myself to be a gambler. I have zero emotion regarding my trading results, I’m at the stage where I only look at data once per month, and the only emotion that I might experence is a feeling of mild curiosity. Maybe I’ll have made money this month, and maybe I wont.
So you lost almost all of your first deposit ?. I’m a gambler, in the first 6 months of live trading I lost around 10% of a small account (primarily due to trading a short term method with a spread betting company, the few thousand dollars was the price of education) I’m a gambler, but even during the period of my worst ever performance, I lost a lot less than you. Why do you think that might be ?
I’m a gambler. I spent 3 years demo trading FULL TIME before risking a single penny. You claim that you are not a gambler, but you almost blew an account. So how did that happen ?
Im a gambler, and I’m consistantly profitable, and I know exactly why that is. I understand my edge, and how to exploit that edge. Your not a not a gambler, and your “becoming” consistantly profitable.
For someone who isnt a gambler, you seam to take a lot of risks.
Excuse me, that should say that I [B]am[/B] consistently profitable now.
I don’t think everyone is gonna see eye to eye on this matter. Everyone has a different definition of what gambling means to them.
The reason that I did lose more than you was because honestly… I [B]was[/B] gambling Forex at first. I knew nothing about it and I’m not a dip-feet-in-the-water kinda guy, I jump right in. I got a live account a month after demo trading as I had to be submersed in the “waters” of Forex to actually get anything outta it. Its the way my personality is.
Couple hundred dollars was well worth the learning experience. So yes… I did in fact gamble coming into Forex. I was shooting for the moon, not using stop losses… If there was a Forex gambler of the year award, I would’ve won it with honors. LOL
But now that I understand Forex, I don’t consider it a gamble. I follow proper MM and a strategy suited to my personality. While its a gamble if I will win or lose my next trade, its not a gamble if I follow my MM and my strategy. The fact that there are 1000’s of proven profitable strategies should destroy the appearance of Forex being a gamble. If I was doing what I was doing when I first started still, I’d obviously being calling Forex a gamble/scam as well.
Gamble: Random buy/sell order every 30 mins.
Not a gamble: Following your MM/Strategy. Thats the biggest edge, IMO.
So, all in all, I’ll say this: Forex is a gamble until you understand it. If you find it hard to understand, you’d be more suited to try another career.