So exactly what is the difference between speculation, and gambling ?
i am only joking. lolz
Yep⌠Forex is speculation.
Definition of SPECULATION
: an act or instance of speculating: as
a : assumption of unusual business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain
b : a transaction involving such speculation
Related to SPECULATION
Synonyms: adventure, [B]chance[/B], crapshoot, enterprise, flier (also flyer), flutter [chiefly British], [B]gamble[/B], throw, venture
Antonyms: sure thing
[B]Related Words: bet, hazard, stake, wager; liberty; dark horse, long shot, play[/B]
[QUOTE=;]So exactly what is the difference between speculation, and gambling ?[/QUOTE]
I wouldnât wish to dwell on the word meanings. But as I said, there is a difference in the mathematical probabilities: gambling risk is sudden death, live or die; in the other its managed risk. One you can cut your losses (midway), the other you place and deal with extreme / full consequences. Further, in gambling, you absolutely cannot predict the next outcome, whether based on past data, linear or quadratic projection, math theorem or prayer. In forex, you can switch on a clean h4 chart at opportune time, look at it for a while, and place a trade in the direction of price action. Thats a mild case of prediction, Iâm not conservative.
itâs interesting that everybody links USA and Forex first together.
Probably because the USA are the worst in blowing most resources up in smoke without regard to the rest of the world population or there own future, or there of there children. (Our children are our future, If I could I would put 20+ grin smilies here).
With other words: Loud, vulgar and âMEâ first, to hell with the rest.
As always, the Brits are âgamblingâ the gentleman way and do it in the background, quietly.
And the Swiss? Ahhhhhh, if they did not had the problem with there UBS bank nobody would even know how they really are âpullingâ the strings. Probably most people still donât know.
Leaves the Asian market, no doubt, they are the future for the Forex of the WORLD and they are gamblers by Heart.
We are alive and that is a gamble in itself, a gamble we ALL will loose one day.
Enjoy the ride as long as it lasts and maybe one or the other that reads this post can get a chuckle out of it.
Happy Trading
[B]Gamble[/B] âbles,-bling,-bled. 1. (intr.) to play games of chance to win money, etc. 2. to risk or bet (money, etc.) on the outcome of an event, sport, etc. 3. (gamble on) to act with the expectation of: to gamble on it being a sunny day. 4. (gamble away) to loose by or as if by betting; squander. 5. a risky act or venture. 6. a bet or wager. [C18: prob. var. of Game1]
- from HarperCollins Concise big@$$-dont-drop-on-toes Dictionary 3rd Ed (1997)
I think there has to be a limit to the extent ALL risk can be placed under gambling. Surely itâs only natural that some risk in nature isnât gambling. Like throwing stones in a cave house. Or pole-vaulting. See the Tour dâ France bicycle race, at the end, the way they go down that hill bad speed for a byke, for the price ofcourse. Is that risking, yes. Is is gambling? In ideal condition, forex is not hoping for it to be sunny, its waiting out the side-action, and taking out the moves, & knowing how to do it always. For the byker, its training, practice and madd skills.
[B]Speculate[/B] lates,-lating,-lated. 1. (object clause) to conjecture without knowing the complete facts. 2. (intr.) to buy or sell securities, property, etc., in the hope of deriving capital gains. 3. (intr.) to risk loss for the possibility of considerable gain. 4. (intr.) N.Z. in rugby football, to make an emergency undirected forward kick at the ball. [C16: [I]speculari[/I] to spy out, [I]specula[/I] a watchtower, from [I]specere[/I] to look at]
[B]Speculation[/B] 1. the act or an instance of speculating. 2. a supposition, theory, or opinion arrived at through speculating. 3. investment involving high risk but also possible high profits. ââ[B]speculative[/B] adj.
[B]Speculator[/B] 1. a person who speculates. 2. N.Z. rugby. an undirected kick of the ball.
- from same bad*$$-no-trippinâ book.
Not entirely true but I get the point.
You could for example buy a house with a mortgage in Euros.
However, because you are American and you earn your money in $ you are exposed to the exchange rate risk. You are still a retail trader but it can provide a function for you if you open up a hedge on EURUSD to keep your mortgage rate consistent no matter what the exchange rate is.
Functional, yes. Speculation, maybe.
Thank you for your kind words, [B]Clint[/B]!!
A refreshing change from all the personal abuse I have received for a whole week!! :eek: 
It got so bad last night with a new troll posting dozens of full on abuse posts about me everywhere leaving Pipcrawler and his team on full duty mode deleting them all.
This is not fair - I am the 4th longest serving member here and I donât think that calling me a loser, an old goat, a sicko and even a paedophile is justified.
[U]Pipcrawler is right[/U] - we debate from rational grounds, not calling each other names.
So I am going to make a post here - it is [U]deliberately general[/U] so as to avoid personal attacks.
It is very probable that this discussin will go round and round and as this thread grows long, we will be none the wiser as to a definite conclusion.
We may end up only with our opinions standing.
An agreed upon definition is much needed.
Then we have a basis for analysis and judgement.
So we look at a dictionary definition.
I contend that this is really inadequate.
Do we go to a dictionary to find out about electricity?
Do we learn about Theveninâs theorem there?
Or Raleighâs criterion?
Can we find out about 2nd order differential equations with constant coefficients from a dictionary?
Obviously not.
The dictionary gets us out of trouble.
But for a full understanding, we need to go elsewhere.
I am going to submit that the dictionary explanation is one that gets you out of trouble for the moment, but is inadequate in its power, and, therefore lacking in its comprehensiveness to make judgements therefrom.
Instead, I am going to appeal to [B]Genesis 3:19[/B]
This is a statement of the [U]Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy[/U], they are interchangeable but cannot be created or destroyed.
Mankind has always sort ways to circumvent this Law and one of these ways is gambling.
Looking from this point of view, I believe we get a better perspective.
As a result we can set up âŚ
A defintion for gambling.
A defintion for speculation.
A defintion for uncertainty.
A defintion for risk.
and more.
This will allow us to better classify forex.
[B]Now if anyone wishes to reply, will you please do so on a rational basis, and not resort to personal abuse.[/B]
It appears that you are saying that we should ignore all dictionaries, thesauri and just create our own new meanings of words. Is this a valid proposition? What about etymology? Etymologies are not definitions; theyâre explanations of what our words meant and how they came about.
From the online etymology dictionary:
speculation
late 14c., âcontemplation, consideration,â from O.Fr. speculation, from L.L. speculationem (nom. speculatio) âcontemplation, observation,â from L. speculatus, pp. of speculari âobserve,â from specere âto look at, viewâ (see scope (1)). Disparaging sense of âmere conjectureâ is recorded from 1570s. Meaning âbuying and selling in search of profit from rise and fall of market valueâ is recorded from 1774; short form spec is attested from 1794
Hmm; OK. Doesnât say speculation is gambling but it does state that speculation is a pure profit seeking activity.
Since religion has been brought in to the discussion to somehow justify the creation of a new definition of a number of words; allow me to make a comparison.
In Islam: Gambling and drunkenness are prohibited.
âO you who believe, intoxicants and games of chance⌠are only an uncleanness, the devilâs work; so shun it, that you may succeed. The devil desires only to create enmity and hatred among you by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to prevent you from the remembrance of God and from prayer. So will you obey this prohibition?â (Koran 5:90, 91)
In Christianity: Gambling and drunkenness are forbidden.
âHe that hastens to be rich hath an evil eye,
and considers not that poverty shall come upon him.â
Proverbs 28:22
Most forex traders and forex trading web sites clearly acknowledge that their business has little to do with investing, and that all they do is watch the market and buy and sell on short term price fluctuation (normally within one day).
For this reason, most Muslim scholars have stated that this is closer to gambling than anything else, and therefore is to be avoided by devout Muslims
Given the similarities between Islam and Christianity teachings in this regard, surely forex trading is also a questionable activity for devout Christians, thus justify the statement; âforex trading is gamblingâ.
can you tell which muslim scholar has stated that. also i would like to know any christian scholar saying the same thing. thx
Are you a practising Muslim?
Expert: Abo Muhammed Samir Faid - 5/14/2007
Question
Please the new thing in the world is the use of internet and its various applications. please what is the stand of the scholars on trading via the internet on Foreign Exchange (FOREX),is it Halal or Haram? i would be grateful for a quick response.
Answer
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Online forex trading is essentially forbidden because of the requirement of full delivery or both currencies at the time of the contract. This requirement is mentioned in a correct saying of the Prophet. Consequently, any contract in which you pay an amount that is smaller than the exact value of the other currency (margin) is not permitted.
Also, any contract that has a time lag in the delivery of either currency is not permitted. This leaves out, as permissible, day trading and spot trading if they are done with full cash payment.
Allah Almighty knows best
Is Trading Forex Halal?
Many Muslims still have doubts whether trading on the Forex market is halal or haram, meaning whether or not it is allowed by the religion. What are the opinions of Islamic scholars regarding the trading of foreign exchange, stocks, index and commodity? Is trading these instruments unlawful in the eyes of Islam?
Nabi Muhammad SAW said in the story of Abu Hurairah, âYou should not sell what you do not possess.â
So if interpreted literally, any trading of currency, stocks or commodity will be considered forbidden, as they are goods not physically in our possession. But then again, we have to think as time changes this statement might have only been applicable hundreds of years ago and havenât developed with time.
Several more modern thinking scholars such as Ibn al-Qayyim definitely opposed to the literal intepretation of this statement. This prohibition was not found in the al-Quran, fatwa or sunnah.
In Sunnah Nabi, it was indeed prohibited to sell something which does not belong to you, not in the sense that you do not have it physically as we would think in the context of foreign exchange and stocks, but in the sense that the item or product being sold actually belongs to someone else. For example, to sell a lost camel is indeed illegal in Islam as you have not obtained the permission of the original owner to do such a transaction!
It is legal when you make a transaction where the goods are guaranteed to be handed over to the buyer (We would definitely hand over the pound sterling in exchange of U.S. dollars when we close our trade in the Forex market). But it is ILLEGAL to make a transaction where the camelâs owner can suddenly show up to claim ownership and take the camel away, then you do not have the goods to hand over to the buyer.
These are the rules that deem the legality of a transaction:
â˘The goods must be clearly defined in terms of the kind, the characteristics, the amount, the price exchanged and the place of transaction
â˘The medium that exchanges hand for the transaction must be clearly defined; dinar, dirham, rupiah, dollar, or things that can be measured or weighed.
And so, to the best of our ability of intepreting the written Islamic laws, the trading of currency, stocks and commodities is in accordance with the spirit of the Islamic law.
Your âscholarâ is actually a young Malaysian womanâs blog and the words you quoted are her interpretation. Are you Malaysian? I think you need to cast your net a bit wider to justify your forex trading activity.
Trading in stocks is halal, speculating in stocks is haram. That is why futures and options are haram. Where currency is traded on margin, with no intention of actually receiving both traded currencies, then it becomes haram.
Please consult your iman if you are confused.
If you sell spices in the market in Morocco and the price happened to fluctuate quickly, would that be gambling? It is also a market full of traders. Letâs say the guy next to you was also selling spices but he dropped his offer, youâd have to drop your offer too. Some guy comes along and bids 50c for some coriander and 1 seller says heâll do it for 60c. You immediately come in and offer 55c. the buyer takes it. Who loses in that situation? Now he could then run round the corner to another buyer who wants them for 60c and sells them pocketing the 5c difference. The difference here is that it is a service of tradeable goods bought from a farm and sold to consumers.
Some of you also have to realise that religious/societal practices will often pervert the meaning of a word or trade largely based on impression. For example one thing might be called gambling (playing card for money) when another buying and selling houses might be called a genuine business practice.
i think you are right. it is only halal if we do spot trading and donât use any margin. what if we buy currency in the form of cash from money changer and keep at home and after some time when the price has risen resell it. it think this should be halal
i would like to know what christian scholars say about forex. any devout christian would like to give opinion
I am neither a scholar nor an iman, but the scholars say that if you take physical delivery of the currency it is halal as long as it does not earn interest nor does it involve borrowing money (margin).
i have researched on google and havenât found anything relating christianity and forex if it is allowed or forbidden. also nothing found regarding jewish religion. why is that. are these religions allow forex or gambling???
From a site on the net:
[I]"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."
Richard Dawkins
[/I]