Never pay for advice or education

Beginner Questions
23

Your analogy is terrible.

There is no comparison to learning the piano and trading Forex. There are disciplines where you have to have a teacher, and some where you can learn by trial and error or by using free resources.

Learning nuclear physics - you need a teacher
Learning C++ programming - you can learn on your own (which I did)

What many of you who pay for education don’t seem to realize is, if the instructor’s system works, he can make money using it instead. Why then bother with having students? Why bother airing a method publicly so that it could possibly no longer work?

Some amount of Forex education is useful, those that teach the fundamentals (what’s a pip? what’s going long? what’s margin?). But when it comes to actual trading, no instructor will give out the real juicy stuff. Notice the big banks who can trade Forex successfully don’t offer classes.

24

Sure they do.

Most are too blind to see it, even if it’s shoved right into their faces. There are threads right here on BP that have the blueprints for long term success written by traders who have never done anything else but trade for a living.

25

[QUOTE=“Master Tang;520567”]

Sure they do.

Most are too blind to see it, even if it’s shoved right into their faces. There are threads right here on BP that have the blueprints for long term success written by traders who have never done anything else but trade for a living.[/QUOTE]

And how much does it cost to read those threads and get that info here on baby pips? :wink:

26

About treeee fiddy…

27

[QUOTE=“Master Tang;520569”]

About treeee fiddy…[/QUOTE]

More like free ninety nine… Lol. Booyah

28

I’m not from the hood, dropping dope numbers like that with you poor illiterate skills which makes reading highly difficult for the educated. Please reconsider. lol

29

I agree completely!!! I have encountered too many people ready to sell you a ‘black box’ or some other ‘get-rich-quick’ trading scheme. My reality is, that to do something well, I have to ‘JUST LOVE DOING IT’!!! Sure there is a lot of tedium, when learning all the basics.
BUT…using an analogy of playing the piano…if one wants to play a beautiful Chopin…they first must learn and practice all the scales and chords, until they are incorporated into every cell, of your body. Then…AND ONLY THEN…can we consistently produce the beautiful melodies and harmonies, for which we are striving.

30

Not a Southpark fan huh?

:stuck_out_tongue:

31

[QUOTE=“Master Tang;520573”]

Not a Southpark fan huh?

:p[/QUOTE]

Probably a little too low brow for British humor.

32

Ha, British humor, don’t get me started on that!

33

I’ve always thought of you to be fairly smart ILovePizza, so I am surprised at your outlook in your post. You’ve chosen to only look at it from a ‘teacher benefit and motivation perspective’ and a narrow one.

There are two parties here - the novice trader and the teacher.

Lets say the novice teacher trades for a good mutual fund. 30% is a good annual figure. This outright beats retail forex traders. I would not say that 30% is a "access to money you can ever need) and I am sure you would not. However, if that 30% annual can be consistently taught to the novice trader then both the novice trader (who normally loses money over a year) and the teacher can benefit.

In terms of the extra time and hassle - how long does 30% annually take? Although some may work 12 hours a day for their 30% a year, I am sure that there are some traders who work less than 12 hours a day and have time to spend on teaching. Even though they make ‘a paltry’ 30% (I think this is a respectable amount) I think that this is ‘worth the money they would be charging’ for the novice trader.

As for could they increase their 30% and not bother with teaching? Maybe they could, maybe they just don’t want the additional risk. However, this STILL benefit the novice trader. I don’t know why you have decided to assume that a successful trader must be automatically be able to make as much money as they would like (I assume that is what you are saying, but it seems quite unlike you to say it).

From the teachers perspective - as you say trading is solely a monetary exercise. Although some people may be satisfied to spend their life in this pursuit it is still a rather lonely and not exactly a spiritualist existence. It is conceivable that someone who makes 30, 40, 50% per year chooses to spend some time interacting with other humans for work and enjoys the interaction thus teaches for money. Yes, he could spend another 2 hours scalping, but if you have probably experienced at work that variety during work is nice (a management consultant might divide his day into meeting clients, crunching numbers, checking audits, teaching juniors, attending meetings - even though running the numbers might be speeding the project along and if he spent more hours on it he would make money, he would simply go mad with constant numbers and shouting at juniors makes a nice change of pace). Anyway a hundred reasons.

Thirdly, to rebuff your last point - teaching trading is different from teaching the piano obviously, with only the very best piano players make tonnes of money, which means that many have a legitimate reason to teach. With trading, you do not need the same level of competency to become a profitable trader as a master piano teacher. However, even as a trader (lets say 50% a year) you can be considered successful, yet you are not automatically guaranteed as much money as they would like so teaching is a viable option.

The proviso is that you have to be making the % per year.

Could write more but I must be off (I’m not even going to go into how stupid Mr Furry’s reply was about nuclear physics).

34

[QUOTE=“JackMarkets;520582”]

I’ve always thought of you to be fairly smart ILovePizza, so I am surprised at your outlook in your post. [/QUOTE]

Lol I will say the same about you…

I don’t think you have or can reconcile the fact that if you are a full time successful trader (the only kind worth being taught by for money) then you are making as much money as you need… Teaching people for money requires A LOT of effort and time… AKA a job… A job paying less per hour then his trading would. Why would someone who has such a high dollar amount attributed to his time do something that pays less. Inefficient and illogical.

Put yourself in the mentality of someone making $100k a year and ask yourself if you want to do more work then what it took to make the $100k and get less to show for it.

35

I will throw there my 2 cents without looking for fights or anything time consuming.

A successful trader could have not enough money in some moment of their life for any reasons that we can’t know. Teaching for a while could help to increase their capital faster than just trading, isn’t it? Take yourself Pizza. You are a successful trader but I don’t think you have a lot of money to invest at the moment ( I could be wrong of course). Teaching could help you to earn money to increase your capital and to get richer faster while doing something you like.

Also we are missing the point that you don’t need to be a champion to be a good teacher. Sometime even genius could be really bad teachers while average or even mediocre player, doctor or whatever could be a great teacher.

Take me for example. I am a very bad trader but I am sure I will be able to teach trading and do it well. In 1-2 year I will be a great teacher. Would I be profitable? I am not sure about that. Probably not. Probably not as profitable as good teacher. Will I have enough money to be full time trading? Maybe yes, maybe no. If I will have not enough I will maybe try to get some money teaching or selling signals. Why not? I could also take a job in some bank or found while I build up my equity. Both are valid options to my point of view. Better doing something trading related than do something. isn’t it?

Just to make it clear I am for the “not to pay” party because everything is out there for free and I am sure I can make it on my own but a good teacher would for sure help and if someone is willing to pay why not! Than sure it is not easy to find a good teacher and maybe most of them are just scams or fraud. I don’t know.

36

Having a large trading account and being a successful trader goes hand in hand… If you are making an amount worthy of charging people for teaching (I would say $75k+ a year) then you will have to have a very substantial account… If you don’t have much money then that is a huge indication that persons performance was no where near the threshold for them to be taken seriously.

37

Think about it, if your favorite guru is such a good trader why would he take the time to teach you for some small amount of cash?
A bad trader doesn’t mean he is a poor teacher. Maybe the guy has knowledge, but doesn’t have discipline, patience, confidence?

For starters, [B]all[/B] the information that you may learn is the same information you can find online for free.
’‘most of’’ instead of ‘‘all’’ is the correct word.

38

[QUOTE=“ARTjoMS;520602”] A bad trader doesn’t mean he is a poor teacher. Maybe the guy has knowledge, but doesn’t have discipline, patience, confidence?
[/QUOTE]

The question then becomes: do you want to pay to be taught to trade by a bad trader?

39

A teacher teach, a trader trade…you can do both but teaching is a very tough job to do. You have to have a special skills on this and “patience” lots of patience and understanding towards your students takes a lot of skills and effort because you do not want to be one of those lousy teachers. You need to be a good teacher.

In order to be a good teacher, you have to be a good and successful trader first. How can you teach if even your self is not even successful of what you are trying to teach? I will also go beyond just teaching the tools, strategies, technique, I will also look at his personality. How he interact towards others? How did he responses towards someone who criticizes him? What is his view or outlook towards the business that he was in. Does he have a good intention towards his prospective students to become successful traders or he just want to “teach” because of money that he will “expect” to earn and nothing else?

Teaching is an honorable job specially if you have students who become successful because of what he teaches them to and I think that it is worth every penny….Outside of that, he just a sales person or a marketer…

40

Lets say I make more than $100k/yr from my job alone and I have been doing so for about 6+ years and I know what that’s like. Lets also pretend I have taken private work that pay under my hourly rate because I liked the work or because I had nothing to do, or I wanted to try it out.

I also know many people who add teaching positions/supervisory responsibilities to their $100+k work even though it only pays them an extra stipend of 10% per year (which of course is taxed at the higher rate) and they work an extra 20-25% per week. Inefficient? Illogical? Yes, but people do it - surely you know people like it?

There of course are many classes of people but you probably know people in all three of these:

  1. The relaxed guy -once he has made a comfortable living, he spends his time enjoying life. I have heard a lot of Aussies are like this (dunno if this is true).

  2. The greedy guy - once he makes $100k, he wants $150k, then $200k, then $400k. A few people like this - not so many actually where I am, but I would have thought in the land of the free there are plenty.

  3. The vocational guy - once he makes $100k, he/she still wants to work, but wants to work what they want to do, but of course they want a reasonable renumeration (have to say I know more women than men like this)

The successful forex teacher would fit into number 3. FYI, I have not seen any evidence that Chris Capre, Jonathon Fox, PeteFader, DNB price action, Nial Fuller, Chris Lori etc fit into this category - more likely they are as you say failed traders - but I am always happy to be proved wrong with a myfxbook with a decent history length.

As for learning from babypips - the standard of information from most threads here is pretty dire. I would say that much of the teaching here would lose you money and that itself is a cost. Just look at Medisofts account in MG99’s “teaching thread”. MG99’s ‘free teaching’ has cost Medisoft $10 000 in a few months. That other babypips teaching genius whose name I won’t mention has probably cost people a lot of money. Tmoneybags top students have lost about 40-50% of their accounts as well.

41

Why do people think this? So you would want an undisciplined, impatient, unconfident teacher? NOOOOOOO. PipNRoll puts it together very well:

42

[QUOTE=“JackMarkets;520608”]

Lets say I make more than $100k/yr from my job alone and I have been doing so for about 6+ years and I know what that’s like. Lets also pretend I have taken private work that pay under my hourly rate because I liked the work or because I had nothing to do, or I wanted to try it out.

Have you ever worked a professional job (I know a lot of babypips are unemployed guys or in dead end jobs)? I’m not asking to be malicious, but just I don’t think $100k USD is that much. You don’t have to answer this since I realise that privacy in online situations is important (the amount of abuse I get I need to be private) - but PM me if you want to answer (although I don’t expect it).

I also know many people who add teaching positions/supervisory responsibilities to their $100+k work even though it only pays them an extra stipend of 10% per year (which of course is taxed at the higher rate) and they work an extra 20-25% per week. Inefficient? Illogical? Yes, but people do it - surely you know people like it?

There of course are many classes of people but you probably know people in all three of these:

  1. The relaxed guy -once he has made a comfortable living, he spends his time enjoying life. I have heard a lot of Aussies are like this (dunno if this is true).

  2. The greedy guy - once he makes $100k, he wants $150k, then $200k, then $400k. A few people like this - not so many actually where I am, but I would have thought in the land of the free there are plenty.

  3. The vocational guy - once he makes $100k, he/she still wants to work, but wants to work what they want to do, but of course they want a reasonable renumeration (have to say I know more women than men like this)

The successful forex teacher would fit into number 3. FYI, I have not seen any evidence that Chris Capre, Jonathon Fox, PeteFader, DNB price action, Nial Fuller, Chris Lori etc fit into this category - more likely they are as you say failed traders - but I am always happy to be proved wrong with a myfxbook with a decent history length.

As for learning from babypips - the standard of information from most threads here is pretty dire. I would say that much of the teaching here would lose you money and that itself is a cost. Just look at Medisofts account in MG99’s “teaching thread”. MG99’s ‘free teaching’ has cost Medisoft $10 000 in a few months. That other babypips teaching genius whose name I won’t mention has probably cost people a lot of money. Tmoneybags top students have lost about 40-50% of their accounts as well.[/QUOTE]

Lol! Yes I have worked a “professional” job. Engineering degree… Professional certifications… Economics degree… Engineering career… Banking experience… Done it.

Never have I come across someone whose main occupation was chosen through the motivation of never having to work for someone again… And who succeeded with that goal… And then decided to go back to work for someone again Lol.

If you have a teacher in mind that has a fully audited and transparent trading record, earning $75k annually over several years from TRADING… And who is running a pay for training program I will gladly give you the “win” for this debate.

That should be fair right? You can watch the performances of great piano teachers… Watch the matches of great tennis coaches… Hear the fluent and perfect articulation of speech from foreign language instructors… Lets see the trading teachers performances… Shouldn’t be too hard to find one to use as an example?

As far as educational value at babypips… The overwhelmingly large portion it is in the school of pipsology… The PDF version is over 500 pages… Fairly comprehensive and covers just about everything you would find in a pay for training course.