NEW MT5 Seriously Stuffing Traders

Trading Tech and Tools
1

Recently I read a review of the abilities of MT5.

MT5 Brokers will now have elminated the ability for a trader to do a temporary counter trend trade without having to pay additional spreads to re-enter into the market.

What the picture below shows is at the opening of a SELL Trade BUY Trades must or will be closed on you.

However if you were going long term with the BUY trades you will now be forced to pay additional spreads or commissions for the privledge to close and re-open a trade that you wanted to be in for the long term.

You will also have to be present again to enter the new BUY order, or predict an entry with a pending BUY LIMIT.

In other words MT5 have deliberately hindered good trading to earn more money for the MT5 broker.

Maybe MetaTrader5, should be called MetaStealerTrader5, as they are effectively taken away trading opportunity (by inhibiting people who have both long and short term trading styles), or stealing additional spread / commission from the trader.

In addition to this, a partial way around this is for MetaStealerTrader 5 to be given the ability to do OCO orders, so that a trader could have a pending BUY limit and Buy Stop orders (or sell) either side of the price action. Then if the BUY Limit gets triggered then the BUY stop is terminated (or vice versa (an OCO)).

But no, MetaStealerTrader 5 has not done this.

This to me just proves that an “upgrade” to MetaStealerTrader 5 from MT4 is really a downgrade for the trader upgrade for MT5 broker.

I WOULD URGE YOU NOT TO TRADE WITH MT5 “MetaStealerTrader5” based brokers.

In addition to this it seriously this one position trade scenario counteracts the usefullness of an EA that might use a trading system to complex for us to enter and may therefore predict a trade that is opposite to the manual trading system being used by yourself. This EA much less usefull.

Further more if you have an EA that trades in two directions, or worse still two directions at once, this EA is now rendered useless inMetaSTEALERTrader 5.

Is the link as to where I got some of this info from.

If you have a more than one trading strategy such as a short term strategy and a long term strategy. You would be well aware that your short term strategy is likely to catch some counter trend trades.

Guess what that short term counter trend trade is now useless, unless you are willing to hang around for the re-entry point, or post pending orders that involve OCOs for protection of greater risk exposure.

The new MetaSTEALERTrader 5 platform is a downgrade for trading.

What you may also need to further remember, that you will notice that there is an increase in trades if you are not counter trend trade but still achieve the same pips.

This extra trade makes money for the banks and the brokers, loses money for yourself. Hence, with this you must remember that MetaQuotes, the producers of MetaSTEALERTrader 5 are paid by their client to develop and implement this platform. Whose their client? Future MT5 brokers.

Additional money for the MT5 brokers, increased difficulty for the trader to be profitable…

Somehow I don’t think its the trader that it benefits from an MT4 to MetaSTEALERTrader 5 change by the MT5 broker.

Why would MetaSTEALERTrader 5 have reduced functionality for the trader? Simple answer is, it must be of benefit to the MT5 broker, remembering that the MT5 broker is MetaQuotes’ customer, not you the trader.

They have also changed the programming language, without producing an MQL4 to MQL5 translator or translation service. Because people have now used MQL4 to develop decent EAs and indicators that can make a trader successful, why haven’t they offered a free translation service. Its not the traders profits that is the first thing on their mind. But the MT5 broker’s profits.

Again… Don’t downgrade yourself to MetaSTEALERTrader 5.

Anyway that is my rant feel free to add your opinions.




2

I don’t believe this has anything to do with MT5. It’s the new NFA anti-hedging rules causing the problem.

You can’t do those things anymore with MT4, or any other platform, if you’re using a US broker.

3

It does, I wasn’t allowed to post the link, cause it breaks this forum’s rules. But if you have a look at the second picture that I posted, it shows the trading positions to be held in the new MetaSTEALERTrader 5 platform.

I’ve been calling MT5 MetaSTEALERTrader 5 because it will steal trading opportunity, or force traders to place more trades if they want to trade counter trend trades that are against the present trade, even they are not with an USA broker.

4

Maybe I’m thick, but I can’t make sense of that picture. Could you explain it please? I’m especially wondering about the right column.

5

um…dude. Listen to phil. It’s not MT5. It’s the non-hedging rules now enforced. The creators of MT5 just put that feature into the trading platform so that they could comply with US legislation.

I’m sure brokers using MT5 that are not in the US will still have that functionality. But it’s not stealing anyone’s trading opportunity away.

Besides…I find that people who are trying to hedge probably don’t really know how to trade the markets right anyway. The only exception to this are those who are buy and sell orders on different sides of support/resistance.

But you should be able to do this because only one trade will be triggered…hopefully :).

6

I tracked down the review that those pictures are from. The paragraph right before that second pic says this…

[I]“Profound differences between notions of position, order and trade appeared in MetaTrader 5. Order is a request to execute a trade operation, the result of which can be a trade. A position is the total state of trades on a certain financial security. Any financial security can have only one position.”
[/I]

That’s a really confusing statement. I think what it means is that MT5 is basically redefining the terms “order,” “trade,” and “position.”

When it says “one position” that does not mean “one trade.” The part that says “A position is the total state of trades on a certain financial security.” tells me that you can still have multiple trades per pair, because it uses the plural term “trades.”

7

That whole statement is confusing. Because usually a position has only one direction…either long or short. Maybe what they mean is that you can have as many positions on a certain currency but that you can only have one at at time…???

So like…there’s no limit to the number of long and short positions that you can open on say EURUSD in some space of time…day, month, year, but that at the time of the position you can only have one trade open, either long or short.

I don’t know…as I don’t trade that way it doesn’t really effect me.

8

[B][U]A “position” I believe is the some of all your trades on the one instrument, combined into one.[/U][/B]
This is what an MT5 Broker based platform would have.

This means that it will be easier to manage, as you will only need to look at one trade which has become a position.

However, where the picture show SELL 3 lots, before that you had BUY 2 lots. The sum of those lots would be 1 lot in the SELL direction. Easier to manage, right? yes.

However, this ease of management is at the expense of profitability, Because one position really means:
[ol]
that trades and partial trades will be closed, even if you wanted to hold them open in your longer term view of the BUY direction.
[/ol]
[LIST=2]
The consequence of that is that when the market turns back up in the longer term BUY direction you now will need to place another trade (in other words MT5 based brokers will gain additional pips / commissions for trading).[/LIST]
[LIST=3]
That is a [B]BUY LIMIT at the turning point if you know how to predict turning points[/B], or a BUY stop above (this means additional prediction of price entry or if you want to be there for the trade time to hang around for the re-entry will be needed). [/LIST]
[LIST=4]
However, if the BUY LIMIT is [B][U]NOT [/U][/B]met, because you can only one position overall at any one time, your BUY STOP order in the original BUY direction can only be entered once the Stop Loss of the SELL order is executed. (In comparison to MT4, where you were allowed to hold onto the longer term BUY direction (because 2 positions at once were allowed), you didn’t lose the BUY order pips in your longer term trade direction that were between your sell order entry point and SELL order stop loss point.) [/LIST]
[LIST=5]
However, if you are with a USA registered broker, this does agree with their rule requirements.
But Australian, British, Canadian, Danish, Euro Zone, Hong Kong, Japanese, New Zealand, Russia, Singapore, Swedish and Swiss none of them have these silly rules. That’s every other significant forex trading country that I can think of.
[/LIST]

Hence an MT5 broker will allow traders to be sure that they are obeying USA regulation. However, an MT5 Broker is not an upgrade in potential profitability from an MT4 broker. A slight upgrade in trading tools at the expense of profitability for the trader. This is the same as being with an USA broker over brokers in other well regulated countries such as Britian, Canada, Switzerland, Australia and Japan. (I have no knowledge of other countries)

As a result this change, it has a wide ranging effect on EAs that place more than one trade, EA that trades differently to its manual counterpart (you), and use of multiple EAs on the one currency. The only way around this will be to have two accounts with the one MT5 broker, or two seperate MT5 brokerages.

This totally negates the better trade management found in MT5 as now you having to switch between accounts (or sub accounts or MT5 brokers).

Account diversification also loses leverage for the non multi million dollar traders.

9

Yes, which is why it would make sense that the first brokers to become MT5 brokers will be USA based brokerages.

So you believe that MT5 developers will have different platforms for MT5 brokers in USA to MT5 brokers everywhere else.

That seems not too realistic too me… Especially considering that this is likely to make more money for the MT5 broker, more trades needed to achieve the same thing. The MT5 broker is metaquotes customer, this an item that will make more money for the customer, hence I believe that MT5 is an upgrade for the MT5 broker and [B]not [/B]for the trader.

[B][U]Yes you are totally right…[/U][/B] catching the counter trend trade is most definitely not for the newbie.
But there are smaller shorter term of resistance / support areas, that you can bounce trade off, that is how I have started catching the counter trend trade.
The rare occassion that this becomes a complete turn around in the market, will make the position system that MT5 brokers will be doing actually profitable for the trader. But complete turn arounds are the rare case (for my trading anyway.

yes hopefully, but definitely not always, which is where this really affects my methods. That is why I making a noise about I s’pose.

10

What it also sounds like is maybe it’s looking to conform to the new purposed FIFO rules…(first in, first out)…which is if you already have a trade open and you want to open another trade, the first has to to be closed first…just for the same pair that is. I wonder how/if that will affect “adding to positions” of winning trades in trend trading methods…:confused:

Right now MT4 won’t let me set up a pending order in the opposite direction of one I’ve already got open…that’s a pain specially if you’re doing range break outs and want ot set it up in advance of not being there to monitor it. :frowning:

11

WOW, I hadn’t read the details on FIFO stuff before.

It seems that if USA NFA regulated MT4 brokers were to remain as is, traders would be having trades closed on them in the middle of the night, which is probably a greater risk to the trader.

So yes [B]MT5 brokers in the USA that are NFA regulated only[/B], this MT5 move might actually be an upgrade for the trader, because of the FIFO rules.

12

Would allow you to have a stop order the other way, then have that stop order twice the size of the order you have, so it closes that and opens another? or wdnt that work. I may have missed something, its morning here :slight_smile:

13

I think you’ve missed the losing scenario of the counter trend trade.

In the diagram attached I’ve shown how the losing counter trend trade would play out. The * represents the pips lost when trading with an MT5 brokerage.

This would not happen in MT4, because of the ability to keep the long term BUY trade open.

In addition to this, both winning and losing scenarios require 3 trades, to be in the long term trade and to be able to take the counter trend trade.

MT5 brokers will benefit significantly from this move.

PIPS Lost with MT5 Brokers.jpg700×490 43.5 KB

14

I can’t find any reason or evidence to support the idea that MT5 will not allow hedging or make you do FIFO.

I’m not sure where you guys are getting this idea from?? The original article did not say that.

It said, “A position is the total state of trades on a certain financial security. Any financial security can have only one position.”

The fact that it uses the plural word “trades” proves you can have more than one trade open at a time.

15

Yes you’re correct as long as they are both in the same direction. But if for example you have a long term “long” position open, then want to scalp a countertrend trade short, you can’t. You’d have to close your long position first, take the short, then if the long trend resumes, close the short and open another long.

If you currently have a long position open, then see a countertrend movement, I suppose it’s ok to open another long in the “dip” …adding to your position… but I was just thinking out loud about the interpretation of FIFO in that respect.

16

Well, that’s exactly how Oanda already works.

With Oanda the solution is, if one wants to have counter positions in the same currency, to open subaccounts.

17

When I used to trade futures on a regulated market, you couldn’t open positions the opposite way… way to get round that for scalping and longer term positions was to have two accounts with different brokers … Which although is more expensive is easier to know where you are.

18

I understand what you’re saying, I just don’t see where the idea that MT5 will not do this is coming from.

Does someone have a reliable source for this information? The original pictures posted in this thread don’t have anything to do with this. They are explaining the new way MT5 is using the terms trade, position, etc…

19

Here’s one…

MetaTrader 5

20

Still a little puzzled about the new terminology…orders vs positions. :confused: It almost sounds like a position can have assorted orders in them…?

But it does look like one can have a long trade open, and also set up a pending sell order for later which can’t be done in mt4 anymore…so that I like…:slight_smile:

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