I think you missed my idea. I was not purposing a new initial entry idea.
My idea is more of a re entry idea.
Lets say just like right now you are out of cable after chosing to take profit early. Drop dow to 1 hr and if you get a entry on parsar in the same direction as the daily parsar is going take it.
Its not a matter of greed, or trying to catch every pip but just a way to maybe catch a few more.
Yesterday on cable by doing this you could have had another 80 pips. And I would also suggest you go with the pairs that have good movement each day.
enter and exit just as you would on the daily only do it on the 1h. Remember only in the direction of the daily.
Here is another idea for exit. But I think it will only be good for those with MT4.
Use the nonlagzigzag and the zigzagpointer. when both show up on the 4 hour get out. Generally when they both show up on the 1h there is gonna be a pullback.
On the daily this exit point may go thru several parsar cycles so not good to use on the daily. I havent used it long enough to know how good it works on the daily.
Sorry - OK - now I see what you were trying to say. It’s pretty much what I was saying in one of my earlier messages i.e. using the next lower / shorter timeframe for early exits AND then also re-entry as long as Parabolic SAR is going IN THE SAME direction as on the daily. If you want to go down as far as 1 hour and it works for you - great stuff. Me - I’ll stick to using daily charts as my ‘primary’ timeframe and 16 hours as my ‘secondary’ timeframe.
And this brings me to a [B]VERY IMPORTANT POINT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE TRADING WITH DELTA:[/B]
I noticed yesterday - and checked again today - that there is a definite problem with the charts when ‘flipping’ between the daily and the 16 hour charts.
In order to get to the 16 hour chart you have to change to the 4 hour chart and then select the ‘extra’ option from the ‘Interval’ menu and then select the 16 hour chart. When you do this - at first - everything is fine - BUT - when you switch back to the daily chart - the information being displayed on the daily chart is actually the 4 hour data. BE CAREFUL!!!
The (temporary) workaround for this is as follows:
Let’s assume that you are working on the daily chart. Now you want to check the 16 hour chart. Change the ‘Interval’ to 4 hours. Now select ‘Options’ and then ‘Extra Options’ and then ‘Delete cache’. Now you can check the 16 hour chart and everything is fine. Now - before going back to the daily chart - delete the chart cache as described above - and then go to the daily chart - and everything is good and fine and well. This is important - don’t forget to do this.
I will now send Delta an email detailing the problem and I also want to ask them if it would be possible to add a 20 hour chart to the platform. On this note I must say that they are only too eager to please and make changes or rectify problems with the trading platform. They are definitely the ‘real deal’ as far as brokers are concerned.
Thanks Dale, I am fervently hoping the same. 01.00hr Bulgarian time is 23.00hrs Nigerian time and I’m nowhere near a computer at that time. I should be able to open a position when PSAR reverses albeit at a later hour on the same day. We’ll see how things go.
I don’t think it would be a problem if you opened positions the next morning i.e. at one stage I was updating / opening positions at 06h00 South African time i.e. 07h00 Bulgarian time - simply because 06h00 South African time and 07h00 Bulgarian time is actually 00h00 New York time - and it never really cost me too many PIP’s BUT did give me more sleep. Having said that though you do have to use your judgement here in this instance unfortuanately i.e. only open these ‘late’ positions if there has not been ‘too much’ movement after the initial Parabolic SAR dot has appeared. The key here is how much is ‘too much’???
Mate - when we get this thing going sweetly, I’ll not only buy you a beer, I’ll buy you a half-share in Zimbabwe! It’s not on the market though is it?
Another thing … I reckon for what you are doing for fellow traders here, we should all be able to chip in your air-fare … I’ll offer the Aussie section free.
Regarding Lacuna Coil … never heard of them! I’m still getting over the break-up of ABBA and the Hollies, Beach Boys, The Eagles (who are going to re-form I heard).
Now … back to serious stuff.
Quote: Now … just to muddy the waters …
What would happen if you used the shorter term TF to try to get an earlier entry BEFORE you placed the trade?
ie … you see a pair setting up on your chosen TF and place it on your watch list. Then you get the trigger signal, and enter the position. Quite often the position has already moved heaps of pips in your favour before the entry is confirmed
So � COULD you have entered earlier? Are there efficiencies at the BEGINNING of the trade to be made too?
What I mean is this … If you see a pair is setting up nicely, but has obviously a bit more to go before the entry dot has formed, would the shorter TF tell you if this trade is more or less likely to trigger?
Unquote
Qsig was mainly correct in asserting that we must stick to the timeframe, otherwise we are in danger of wrecking a mighty good system here. But like Droesparky, I hope you all didn’t miss my point.
I mainly wanted to have a look at whether a slightly earlier entry could have been effected through trying to get a small jump on the entry. Pre-empting the formation of the dot on the daily TF would not be too difficult if using the 16hr or 20hr chart view. I am not saying this would be easy, or available on every trade, but there are some charts setting up where it is almost a lay-down misere that the dot will form.
If not, you lose the spread, but even so, there should be a small profit up to the point where the dot forms, or fails to form. Even in the 16 - 20 hr TF you would never enter unless the trade was going in the right direction, so you are unlikely to be going against your trend anywhere.
In the event it fails (shyte happens!) you exit the trade fast. Bye-bye spread, but unlikely to be a loss. In the event it goes on to form that entry dot on the daily TF, you have gained pips.
It would be unwise, (I agree strongly with you Qsig and Dale) to view any shorter TF than the 16 or 20 hr when assessing the set-up. The trick is not to become day-traders or screen watchers, but to harvest a few more pips, which are there for the taking. You would be well paid for the extra time it would take to earn them.
However, I respect your method and the hard work that has gone into getting it this far. In the final wash-up I would not be disappointed if an attempt to get a few extra pips in this way was discarded. I love your method in its pure form regardless.
I have yet to trade your method, by the way - have to look after work and family priorities - but am not too far off that point.
Actually - that’s something I’ve always wondered about - I mean - if you bought Zim dollars - you could get about a trillion of them for like R100 ZAR (OK - well - it’s not quite that bad but you get the picture) - and then WHEN things come right over there - which I do believe they will - it may just take some time (OK - well - maybe more time than ‘some time’) - and then convert the Zim dollars back to ZAR when the exchange rate improves - well - you do the math. I think I heard somewhere that this would never be possible though because in situations like this - when things improve - they simply change the currency or revalue it (as a matter of fact there was talk once that ‘they’ (not sure who ‘they’ are) would ‘peg’ the Zim dollar to the South African Rand but I’m not sure what ‘they’ meant by ‘peg’ i.e. I don’t think that it will affect the actual value of the Zim dollar but just simply stop it from doing these crazy moves and fluctuations).
Anyway - I still think your idea is great - I’m working with it now - or should I say - I intend to - just as soon as one of my few lousy open positions turn to profit - but I must say that things are not going too well right now - I mean - I have open positions of the strangest of things - like USD/RON and EUR/SEK - and - of course - I ‘effed up’ today AGAIN - because the price of EUR/SEK penetrated Parabolic SAR this afternoon - and - of course - [B]being the ‘disciplined’ trader that I am[/B] - could not wait until tonight to make sure it was really a reversal - so stopped and reversed immediately - and - of course - the price has now retracted!!! Strange how that ALWAYS happens!!! So I took the loss on the initial position and am now making a loss on the current position!!! WHEN AM I GOING TO LISTEN TO MYSELF???
Oh - by the way - I don’t see why we can’t get together for a beer - even although our taste in music differs (may I say GREATLY)??? Like I said before - I want to go on a ‘little’ tour next year - Parabolic SAR and the Indices (and my creditors of course) ‘willing’ - and Australia is ‘on the radar’ - but I did not know until today that they (Lacuna Coil) would be touring Australia THIS year. Anyway - we’ll see what happens.
I don’t know why I’m so ‘chirpy’ this morning - because there is absolutley NOTHING happening in the markets - at least not from where I sit!!!
How are things going with everybody else? Does anyone actually HAVE some open positions based on Parabolic SAR at the moment? If so - how are you doing? I’m doing BAD at the moment - I have two ‘killer loss’ positions open at the moment - USD/RON and GBP/NZD - and they are REALLY ‘p*****g’ me off - and - to make matters worse - if they do continue on their current course - there is a LLLLOOONNNNGGGG way to go before the price reaches or penetrates Parabolic SAR!!!
thank u so much for your intresting system that u r sharing with every body .i spend like 4 days readying every thing u wrote and i am so much intrested in following what u r doing and trying to test it my self through a demo and live account my only problem here is that i do have MT4 from different brokers and the PSAR is really not the same i don’t know what to do shall i get the signals from your broker and trade with my broker based on your broker signals?if any body who is following dale but has the MT4 and succued on changning the parameters for the PSAR that will resembles Dale’s broker sgignals please massage me back.
Dale Please keep the good work and please stick to your rules coz there are lots of people who r following u blindly!!
I hope u guys can accept me as a new freind here.Dale be sure i am following u blindly don’t miss with our system please and wait for a day to confirm the signals!!!
I don’t really understand when you say that the Parabolic SAR that you have on MT4 is different from mine. Could you attach a chart so that I can see why you say this and I’ll try to help.
Put it this way - I have never felt that I needed to modify the default parameters for Parabolic SAR on MT4 (don’t get confused with the earlier charts that I posted where there were two different colored Parabolic SAR dots - that’s from an entirely different broker i.e. that’s not MT4 - so don’t worry about those charts).
If that’s not the problem then please attach a chart so we can see exactly what the problem is.
Thanks for your quick reply well here is attached what i meant earlier.
iF U LOOK on the chat that i am attaching through the MT4 u will find that 4 days ago there was a vaild entry for the USD/CHF and as the PSR dot appeard on the opp. direction i opened my position for buy after 4 days i am losing big time when i watched the signals for your broker for the same pairs the dot was not showing on the oppsite direction.although i am using the same prameters as your broker.so this is what i am facing i don’t know what is the problem if u can help that will be great
After 4 days of reading every thing in this fourm i really feel that i am a part of this fourm!!!
For fun, I looked at the GBP/USD daily chart yesterday and it was far gone into an uptrend. I then looked at the 16 hour chart and PSAR had reversed into a down trend, there were two dots already. Today the 16 hour has reversed back into the uptrend. The daily is still plodding upwards.
What I have done is check my MT4 and Delta’s charts and my ‘other’ brokers charts - and - surprisingly enough - Delta is the only chart where there was not this ‘false’ signal.
Having said that though - and I know this is not going to make you feel any better - there was really nothing that you could possibly have done - if you were following MT4 - to keep you out of that trade. What I did was add the OsMA indicator at the bottom of the attached MT4 chart (essentially MACD) and even if you were using MACD as a source of confirmation - you would STILL have taken that trade i.e. the OsMA (or MACD) had crossed in the same direction as Parabolic SAR was indicating.
I have also been looking at Wilders’ Directional Movement Index (or ‘DMI’) of late (which even he suggests you should use with Parabolic SAR) to see whether or not it would keep you out of bad trades and ensure that you only take good ones (see the Delta chart) but from what I can see you would not trade very often if you waited for the ADXR (Average Directional Movement Rating) on the DMI to be above 20 - 25 indicating a trend and I’ve also noticed that most of the time Parabolic SAR has got you into an EXTREMELY profitable trend trade while at the same time the DMI is telling you that you should not ever have been in that trade to begin with. Parabolic SAR really seems to be the ‘magic bullet’ here. Whether or not the above issues with the DMI are because this is forex that we’re trading and the system was originally designed for stocks I do not know (although I don’t even use it for my Indices trading).
Like I said - it’s not going to make you feel any better. One thing that you do have to realise though is that there WILL be drawdowns with Parabolic SAR - it’s inevitable - and that’s why it is so important to have enough available or free margin AND to not overtrade (which is something that I could not help noticing on the screenshot that you posted i.e. you have more than one position open on the same pair - and in the same direction - and I can’t see the rest of your open positions - so I’m hoping that it’s only the two positions - but why two positions in the first place?).
On the other hand - I can tell you that sometimes Delta’s charts will give a false signal and Metatrader 4 will be ‘spot on’. Theoretically there should be no difference between the various different platforms (given the same prices) but in practice differences do occur (although the prices only differ by extremely small amounts between brokers).
I do know how you feel - and this is where ‘discipline’ has to be the key factor. Unfortuanately you may have to take a loss here but you will probably cover it when the reversal comes and then still make a profit.
Again - I have mentioned this before - I do believe the ‘key to my success’ thus far - has been because of the sheer number of pairs that I attempt to trade at any given time i.e. even with 44 pairs open there are many losing positions BUT the profitable ones always seem to negate the losing ones i.e. Parabolic SAR is right MOST of the time and because of the number of pairs that I attempt to trade the ‘MOST’ part negates the times when it is wrong.
Hang in there - and - DO NOT OVERTRADE your account - you need free margin - and loads of it - to NOT wipe your account out with Parabolic SAR.
they say The first entry point on the buy side occurs when the most recent high price of an issue has been broken and it is at this time that the SAR is placed at the most recent low price. As the price of the stock rises, the dots will rise as well, first slowly and then picking up speed and accelerating with the trend. It is understood that Wilder built-in this accelerating system to allow the investor to watch the trend develop and establish itself. The SAR starts to move a little faster as the trend develops and the dots soon catch up to the price action of the issue you are following. As you can see in the charts below, the system, as I have mentioned before, works extremely well in markets with a dominant trend markets and fails miserably in horizontal or choppy markets.
Over the next couple of days I hope to do some study on the indicator and try to refine something without detracting from your method in any way. I notice the default settings are 0.02 acceleration step increments and 0.2 for the maximum acceleration factor.
This means that the dots will accelerate closer to the price action by a factor of 0.02 for each price movement, with a maximum acceleration factor setting of 0.2. These settings are by no means “hallowed” and can be adjusted to suit the instrument traded. I suspect that sometimes we accept the default settings (nothing wrong with that) without looking more closely for an optimum value.
For example, I think Wilder may have developed this for trading equities, but does it act just as efficiently for Forex, Pork Bellies, Gold and so on?
I notice that some members of the thread, and no doubt other interested-but-silent readers prefer to keep this approach pure. In order to preserve purity of PSAR strategy, you will need to visually assess each chart for its TREND, since PSAR is an excellent trending indicator.
Whipsaws during non-trending periods will force purists to give back gains.
I know what the answer is, and I am loathe to suggest it … but I will, with a rationale:
Since the Indicator is a trend-based tool, it makes sense to ensure there is a trend in place. That’s all I can/will say.
I can’t suggest how we can do that and still keep the thread “pure” other than visually. Nothing wrong with that either - good to develop skills, instead of being told what to do by indicators right and left.
Sorry - I was typing my last message when you posted your second one.
OK - so now you have me ‘stumped’ i.e. MT4 - two different brokers - same software - I’m assuming very little in the way of price differences - so why the totally different presentation??? I don’t know.
The only OBVIOUS things to check would be to see that you are using the same parameters, you are not using a ‘custom’ indicator i.e. you are using the standard Parabolic SAR indicator that is included with MT4, stuff like that.
An experiment that you could try is to use a single copy of MT4 to connect to two different brokers and then check if the results are the same or different. In other words - login to one broker - check Parabolic SAR - then change the settings ON THAT SAME COPY OF MT4 so that you are using THE SAME COPY OF MT4 to login to the other broker - and then check Parabolic SAR at that broker. This will tell you whether or not there is actually a difference between the indicators on the two different copies of (supposedly the same) MT4 or if the difference is actually being caused by the price differences between the brokers (although I fail to see how small differences could make such a huge difference to Parabolic SAR). Actually - that’s another point - check to see if both versions of MT4 are the same.
The above is, of course assuming, that you have two copies of MT4 installed - one for each broker.
By the way - now I feel REALLY bad for you - USD/CHF has just ‘gapped’ down. I would not advise you to stop and reverse - wait for Sunday i.e. to see whether or not it retraces first. In other words - wait for a Parabolic SAR confirmation before performing a stop and reverse (for you sake I’m hoping you were trading with stop losses set).
i think the best thing i could do in near future is to look for the signals that will have a valid entry through Delta or your posting and open the postions on my MT4 charts coz i feel it is more reliabale than the MT4 .i don’t have any open postions more than what u saw.
at the same time i will give my self a try to understand Delta platform they might be easy to use i don’t know but the MT4 always the best to use coz they r very easy.
I don’t want to focus on any other signals coz basicly they r miss leading if u stick to the PSAR signal.
U always say u have to have a good margin can u please tell me what is the perfect to have in the free margin? and what is the perfect to have in the account?.
Let us put it this way!! ( i am stealling your expersion that u always use) if i do have 10k account what is ideal for the free margin and what is the ideal to trade with.
Sorry for asking too many questions but as u see i am so dam into it!!
Have you seen Gold by the way??? It’s at $703.25 as I type!!! Your currency should be ‘laughing all the way to the forex market’ just about now!!! I know mine is!!!
But - the good news is - that when it comes down - it’s going to come down ‘hard and heavy’ (like my music) and I’m going to be there with open arms (positions) on Gold and anything AUD/NZD/ZAR - this may even pay for my visit to Australia!!! Watch this space!!!
Now as far as your comments are concerned:
Everything you say - and everything you have read and posted - is EXACTLY right i.e. it IS a trend following indicator AND it WILL kill you in a ranging or sideways market - no doubt about that (and - as a matter of fact - that’s EXACTLY why USD/CHF is causing headaches for anyone using Parabolic SAR right now to trade it - it’s in a range).
Having said that let’s not forget WHY I started this thread i.e. ‘low maintenace’ and ‘the shotgun approach’ (maybe that’s what this ‘system’ should be called - the ‘shotgun approach’ - actually it’s pretty much the same approach I used to use to find woman). In other words - I did not want to sit and analyse charts and chart patterns and look at things like Wilders’ DMI (ADX) and MACD and, and, and, and . . . That’s why I keep saying that the reason that this is working so well for me is because of the number of pairs that I will build up to at any given time the theory being that they will not ALL be range bound and the ones that start trending will make far more profit over a period of time to cover the losses on the range bound pairs.
I’m the first persion to admit that had I, for example, chosen to stick with (a very good current example) USD/CHF on its own I would have lost plenty by now because I would be relying on only one pair which just happens to be range bound at the moment.
You do make a good point (about the ‘pork bellies’). Parabolic SAR is definitely more ‘stable’ with CFD’s, Gold, Silver, Oil, and the Indices BUT having said that it still appears to be working for me IN THE LONG RUN on forex pairs - maybe just not as well as on the other stuff mentioned above.
Oh - and those of you who have just lost your home or vehicle and cannot afford to buy food after this sudden USD/CHF move - don’t feel bad - I have a ‘lovely’ position open on USD/RON right now (which was also opened on a false Parabolic SAR signal about two days ago) - and it’s showing a nice loss of around $1333 and this lost if ‘overpowering’ the other profitable positions that I have open. Again - there was nothing that would have kept me out of this trade - every other indicator that I have tried to add to the chart - mainly to ‘justify’ to myself as to WHY I took the trade in the first place - has confirmed my entry. It’s just ‘one of those things’.
yes i am using stop loss and yes as it droped down my both opened positions has been stoped for loss.Any ways it is just a demo not live account.
what i want to say now is that there is 1 possible postion that can be open very soon which is the ERU/CHF the signal show a valid entry in both of my 2 brokers as the candels penetrate the dots and there is a reverse now is happening please have a look on the charts,check it and give me your thoughts
!!!
