Prop firms and trading

I just realised that Axi Select is also discussed in a thread right here.

The thread is spam really, of course, but with irony it also shows some of the problems with Axi! :sweat_smile:


since you have linked it…

Axiselect isnt discussed on that thread per se.
it is a personal journal.
no irony there; apart from the irony that you are having issues of understanding it is a journal.
bcos as is, it does and will show my journey, for the good or the not so good included.
no spam will do that :slight_smile:

I meant that in the worst-case scenario, I could lose $500 with Axi Select and 155 euros with FTMO. Subjectively, Axi Select seems more reliable to me. The broker has a longer history, so it doesn’t appear that they will disappear in six months.

I’ve never been interested in prop firms before, and to be honest, I’m quite skeptical of them. It’s like a gray zone for me. I’ve only seen news about My Forex Funds.

I’ve started paying attention after seeing the news that Axi has launched a new product for prop trading.

Thank you for sharing!

As they say, you won’t know until you try

Prop firms will continue to gain attention. If you’re good at trading, why wouldn’t you used them? Also, why are hedge funds using prop firm traders?

Is that common?

simple math, really :wink:

show you with one example:
you have 4000$ own money, and trading with a max dd -30%, ((-1200$.) which is more than you would normally want to see on your account anyhow if somewhat conservative trader), and make +30% for the month.
you made +1200$.

say you do this with a prop setup,
your 4000$ being your ‘master account’, having a 25x multiplier, and a 50% profit share; trading with a max dd -10% allowed, and making +10% for the month.
your personal risk? -400$ (-10% master equity). the upside? your profit! 10000$ x 50% = 5000$ + master’s +400$ (+10%) = +5400$

yes, such scenarios do exist.
meanwhile lots of traders dont have access to 6-7 digit personal funds, and taking the very high risk way to earn a very high return will inevitable come with some large losses too.
wouldnt take too many to wipe a trader clean when that happens.
trading for a living messed up further by the fact that often still would be in the need to withdraw money after a losing month as well. just bcos the majority of retail traders arent having that deep pocket, really.

does this help you? :slight_smile:

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Yea makes sense. A numbers game really. They get the fees if you stink. If you’re good at trading, they get the split of your profits. They just need the money to hand out in the first place.

Where does that come from? Is it always real?

I read on trustpilot many comments for different prop firms that even if you pass the challenge, they can still kick you out for whatever reason and there’s not much you can do.

On one occasion, the prop firm asked the trader to reveal his strategy because he was winning and of course he refused. Next thing he get the boot. One would expect that the firm should be very happy to have such a trader onboard simply to copy his trades but no.

So what is the safest prop firm? FTMO?

My opinion, from all I have seen and heard and discovered …

  • The two safest and best and most honest are Tradeday and Topstep

  • The best spot/CFD ones may be 5%ers and Lux (both use real funded accounts with real brokers not owned by the company, FTMO does not, this is a big issue)

  • It is not a coincidence that the futures ones are better and safer than the spot/CFD ones (the same is also very true of brokers)

  • FTMO may also be honest and reliable, I am less certain

  • Many firms (like Axi, Apex, etc.) seem to be very, very dishonest and have really awful history


However, my question was whether prop firms are worth considering for beginners. I was wondering whether they are truly reliable, whether they provide the educational support they claim to offer, and whether there are quality advisors available who can help

To be honest, I thought the opposite. If a large broker with a long history launches such a product, then there should be more trust in it.

I kinda feel prop firms are more for established traders. They’re not selling themselves as educators, right? It’s about giving you funds. It’s about finding good traders that they can split profits with. And they get paid on both sides. We have to pay to play, and if we’re good we still “pay”. So they make money if we suck and they make money if we don’t suck. And most beginners…suck. All the broker stats that they have to show on their websites tells us that. It’s not a rumor. It’s reality. So to me, if I was a prop firm, would be thinking, more beginner traders suck and are really likely to fail at trading, I’ll make sure to make money off of them even if they suck. And so you have “entrance” fees. The small % of good traders will get their fee back, but that’s a small refund we’ll get back if they actually turn out to be good traders. Let’s make money off the ones that most likely won’t pass our challenge. They’ll be back again to try out, and each time we get our fee paid. It’s actually like a perfect setup.

I had a different business model in mind. One where the company cares about you as a trader, even if you’re a newbie. They’re down to teach you everything so they can earn a steady profit from your trades later, not just snatch your initial fee. It’s all about building a business that’s in it for the long run. This way, they profit from the trader, and basically, that trader could end up being their brand ambassador.

This would be great. Tell me if you find one.

I’m looking :slight_smile:

Oanda just opened their prop firm. Don’t know anything about it other than the name. But it’s a huge broker with a reputation to protect.

Exactly and no other option.
I mean, there are many large brokers who have their own solution in terms of prop trading. And it’s awesome, sometimes brokers don’t create their platform, separate ones, but just backs up side developers. And these developers, on the website, point out that this prop trading firm is under this or that broker’s patronage.
In my opinion they really deserve trust, at least, if you know that this broker is respected, why not to use the solution it backs up…

I believe it’s a positive trend for prop trading that major brokers are developing their own directions in prop trading. First, it was Axi, and now Oanda has followed suit. I think this competition will benefit everyone involved

Axi has a very problematic and unpleasant history. They’re essentially fraudsters, pretending to be FCA-regulated while in fact “Axi Select” accounts are opened offshore and not properly regulated at all. Many people think they could (and indeed should) be next in the litigation firing-line after MFF.

Oanda perhaps a much better proposition, but with a very limited range of countries.

There’s always been unrestricted competition.

As with brokers, what improves things for customers is better regulation and compliance (so that - among other things - companies don’t make blatantly fraudulent statements on their websites, as it turned out MFF did).

That’s coming, too. :slight_smile: