to my opinion Prop Firms will kill Retail Brokers, and there’s a very simple reason for that:
Retail Broker (even the most established and regulated one) have all the reasons to screw you, AND THEY DO, especially when it comes to the shady CFDs … while the Prop Firms have all the reasons in helping you being successful. In other words, in the case of Retail Brokers we have a very clear conflict of interest between you and the broker, while with the Props it is exactly the opposite - mutual interest. Retail Brokers are doomed, It’s called capitalism.
No, that’s very wrong. That would be true only if they genuinely opened funded accounts for their successful trialists. They don’t. They don’t even claim to (with one exception).
No, again very, very wrong. If that were so, the futures prop firms wouldn’t be thriving, expanding, growing and multiplying. But they are, because of the mutual interest (lack of conflict of interest). Just like stockbrokers.
I follow your reasoning, which is entirely logical, but actually based on a highly mistaken premise. Sorry.
(Hope you don’t mind too much that I’ve moved your thread to “Prop Firms”, but it’s far from a “beginners’ question”, and people who look for new Prop Firm threads will find it here!).
They do (and maybe more will, which is why John’s original assertion might still be right in spite of what Pipsteroid said above!).
Oanda, as you said, and others: IC Markets (about to start under the name IC Funded) and Axi (as “Axi Select” - one to avoid!).
More might, but there are big potential legal problems over calling it “funding” when they’re actually the counterparty and want you to lose. As we saw with MFF (MyForexFunds). Also, the industry leaders FTMO have changed all their wording and are now very carefully not claiming to “fund” anyone.
Futures prop firms, however, are a totally different ball game. They do fund people on a real exchange. I think that will be the real growth industry - it looks that way already.
With trading skills like that, I’m guessing you want the funded accounts for higher-risk trading than you’d want to do with your own funds, and that your main concerns must be how long the prop firm survives and how reliably they pay out, rather than anything else?
They vary enormously (just like the forex prop firms do).
They have special offers and discounts and stuff, on and off.
At the moment I believe Topstep is $50 for a $50k account with no time-limit, but theirs is a monthly charge, not a one-off, so it might really cost you $100 or even $150 if you’re not in a hurry at all.
Tradeday is one of the best, currently 40% off, but also monthly (slightly lower profit target than Topstep and no daily loss limit - they vary!).
Apex is the cheapest (it’s almost always either 80% or 90% off, but that’s probably the only way they can get customers at all, and there are a lot of reports of “payout problems” there at the moment, and the company is owned and run by a former scammer from a crooked “binary options” business - I definitely wouldn’t touch it, myself!! It’s the only crooked one, though, as far as I know).
My guess is that overall, they’re probably very slightly more expensive than the forex ones.
But you end up being genuinely funded by and doing business with a genuine partner who can win only when you win, and wants you to do well, on a genuine, transparent exchange with no trickery, etc. etc. It’s really a whole different world.
They have to charge monthly, not once-off, because the futures datafeed actually costs them money, which they have to pay to CME.
Still there are good discounts, as you say.
The thing to do, @samewise , if you’re interested, is to get yourself onto the mailing-lists of the main, well-known ones (Tradeday, Earn2Trade, Topstep), and you’ll get plenty of “special offers” and discounts sent to you by email. Don’t pay the full price! The discount prices are recurring, too. Topstep’s is not just $50 per month for the first month and then the full fee: it remains $50 for as long as it takes you.
Definitely keep away from “Apex” - that’s the one bad one!!
I am currently trading with APEX. 100k account.
Payouts come every 30 days without a hiccup.
I trade CL (Crude Oil), ES (S&P) and NQ (Nasdaq).
I have tested and passed with several other Prop Firms but in my opinion APEX is the most Trader friendly and Trader concerned company out there. Trader keeps 90% - they take 10%.
Top Step is the closest with a 80/20 split.
Yes, you pay a monthly charge for data. But seriously, you pay regardless thru your broker whom ever that may be.
I pay $207 per month for my 100k account. That is 1/3 of 1 trade of the month. Just a drop in the bucket.
I also have setup a LLC and I trade thru APEX as my LLC.
All prop firms have rules and if you break them you will have to reset your account.
This is their safeguard. They need to protect their capital.
They don’t want Fly by the seat of your Pants Traders or Gamblers.
Both Top Step and APEX have training courses to help you succeed as that is in their best interest. (as do others)
APEX lets you trade with your own strategies. If you are successful as a trader now, you should have no issues passing their testing period.
The bad reviews are from beginner traders that can’t follow rules, don’t understand trade and account management, risk to reward and get angry.
Just my thoughts
Well done, and I hope that lasts out for you, but a lot of people posting in a lot of other places are certainly having great difficulties getting paid out their profits by Apex just at the moment!
So much so that people are now starting to ask whether there’s a cash flow crisis there, and how safe their accounts are.
The specific problem with Apex, that doesn’t arise with any of the others, may be caused by their not really being a futures funding company like the others: futures were kind of “late afterthought” for them, after years in the CFD business, and in their owner’s case after years of extremely unpleasant history in “binary options”.
I have been with them since January.
I have taken 3 draws. $3,000 - $3,800 and $5,800.
Also have $7,500 of profit in the account to offset draw down requirements. ( their $3,000 of draw down + my $7,500 = $10,500 of wiggle room.
I will let you know if I run into any problems.
You’ll be ok. They read the trading forums and pay out people who post in public about them, of course (would be very stupid not to?!). So you’re definitely doing the right thing, posting about them.
