So tired of losing money

[gogoprovost]

Good luck living the dream, let us know how it goes, it’s my long term goal also, become a full time trader.

Happy pipping!

After trading for over 2 years, I pretty much came to this conclusion. I felt like I knew what I was doing, but didn’t have the physical/emotional energy to tackle it after a day at work (or sometimes before). I noticed that when I took some time off, I got the trading results I felt I was capable of.

It started to make sense. If this market is competitive (and my god is it ever), then how can I expect to take money from people doing this full-time? Maybe I can pull myself together a few days, but by wed/thur I’m starting to wear down, battling markets and a job I don’t particularly like.

So I’m ditching the job and going at the markets with what I managed to save up in that time. It’s a gamble but if it’s the answer to my inconsistency then I have to at least try it out. Lucky for me my living expenses are rather modest, so I shouldn’t have too much trouble covering that.

and I’m trading 5 min charts. I watch the longer TFs for setups, but 5min chart for the triggers. Ideally I enter on the 5min and let it run on a move occurring in the 1H+. I used to trade the higher TF’s because of my job, but I realized I’m more geared for the fast pace when it comes right down to it.

do be warned with those 5min charts however, overtrading will kill you. My Oanda spreads are pretty good, but still, taking crap trades to fill the time will stack those spreads costs real high, real fast. So watching for hours and hours without getting into the market requires a truly Zen state of mind. But it’s all worth it in the end when that perfect opportunity shows up on your radar!

[ThePipPunisher]

Let’s keep this classy guys I know MP is a controversial subject around here. I only wish to help this guy see the market from a new perspective.

OP, MP has made a LOT of threads around the net, just here and at ForexFactory you have tons of posts that will keep you reading for weeks.

Did you see this one?

“Trading With MP6140”…worst thing I ever did | Trade2Win Forums

[gogoprovost]

Did you see this one?

“Trading With MP6140”…worst thing I ever did | Trade2Win Forums

Yes i know but in my case I trade my own money (I will, I’m demoing now), I wouldn’t have confidence in anyone else to do so.

I didn’t read it all and frankly I don’t care, I trade the way he trades and it works. He is also very helpful and likes to help people.

Seriously people when you give your money to other persons to trade for you this kind of thing may happen. Nobody always wins in Forex and drawdown is inevitable. It may just happen that the day that someone else is trading for you is a bad day and you lose and that’s it.

Let’s not derail this thread shall we?

[Pip_Wolf]

I think I see part of your problem, you are trying to enter as you see momentum and catch moves right as they happen. Price moves and zigs and zags, so even a 50 pip move doesn’t really mean much as far as the overall trend and strenght of it…this is the real problem with scalping the whip of any pair is going to kill you and almost always hit your SL if i’ts 50 pips and under… at least IME.

It can be done, but again, thats working very hard at trading. And as you’ve found you have to be glued to the screen to catch it as it happens.

If you want to trade S&R and momentum check out nickb’s method. I dont care for it, but it’s kind of like what you described. He, draws historically strong S&R on the 4H and when it is broke by x pips he enters with a 50 pip stop, I believe.

A better way, [U]which is decribed in the book in more detail[/U], to catch a potential move is to set up a stop order above or below potential movment.

Say you think price is going to go down/short because of a continuation pattern. ( Price previously was trending down, then maybe a flag formed sideways) Don’t just jump in as you see price moving. Wait for price to move up/long past your entry, then put in a pending/stop order below price and the continuation pattern (flag).

What this does is if price keeps moving up you never enter and know the pattern didn’t mean much. If price breaks down, the trade enters and you dont have to endure much drawdown for the moment.

I really urge you to get the book I recommended I believe it will help you a lot.

You really are working to hard at trading. You are smart enough, and it isn’t that you dont have some special knowledge or indicator. I’ve done exactly what you are describing, I can tell you scalping and trying to make money with small TP’s and SL, IE scalping is your whole problem.

Let me give you an example of how I trade. My trades routinely lose 50-100 pips or win 100 - x1000 pips. Yes, you read that right, several thousand pips. When I winning trade keeps going for a month or more I’m up a few thousand pips on one pair with one entry. I do it with very little stress and very little work. I enter and check my trades once a day and move the stop. Sure I look at the charts but when i’m around but I dont agonize over the trades and second guess it.

Anyway:

I use the trend technique from the book most of the time, I like trading trending pairs because of the huge profit potential.

1. I look at the pairs I like at the start of the daily candle, which is 6-7 in the evening in my time zone.

2. I filter the daily trend with 200,50,20 10 moving averages. If all the averages are lined up and price has been above/below the 10 average for 10 candles or more that indicates a possible strong trend. **** see the P.S.

3. I dont enter until price has retraced back to the 10 moving average or if I see a continuation pattern. Once it retraces back to the 10 I enter.

4. The stop is 50% the atr away from the 10 moving average.

5. The TP? There is no TP, you either close the trade when you’ve feel you have enough profit or you move the SL 50% the atr of the current closing candle every day. This can result in huge wins.

IME, you’ll kick yourself if you just close when in profit because if you just trailed every day, in a month you could be up 1000 pips. Also, there will be losses, and the huge wins dwarf the losses.

As you can see I didn’t look for instant big moves, that maybe happened at 2 AM or 11PM. I just found a way to indentify the trend and found a decent entry and trailed the stop at the close of every day. I dont have to worry about momentum or noise driving me crazy.

Lets just assume that what you are doing is profitable. Lets compare how you trade to how I trade.

You are in front of the screen all the time watching price like a hawk and trying to catch moves at all hours, and trying to guess when it will happen and how much it will happen.

I only really have to look at my screens once a day, decide to enter or not, and if I’m already entered move my stop once for that day. Even if both made the same profit, which one would you rather do? Which one sounds like it has a larger margin of human error?

P.S. the best thing I got from this book was to look for a, “tendancy in the market.” What a tendancy for something to happen tells you (on the daily charts) is where the big money is entering and taking profit. If you line up those MA’s, on most pairs you’ll see a tendancy to bounce off and return to the 10 MA, (or another one depending on how volatile and choppy the market is)

P.P.S. Even on daily pairs there are plenty of opportunities for good entries. No, you dont get them every day. But, more trades doesn’t = more profit, it’s actually the opposite. That is why you watch more than one pair. I only watch 4 pairs right now and usually get a good entry out of at least one of them once a week.

Thanks for posting this, it’s very interesting. I have a question though. You change your stop loss every day at half of the 14 ATR away from the 10 EMA. Say you’re short in a down trending market. Does this mean that during a retracement, it is possible that today’s stop loss is higher than yesterday’s? Or would you just use the lowest SL reached to date based on your system?

The reason I ask is because I can see a problem with both eventualities.

If you take option A, and the market turns against your trade, you could lose a lot more of your profits because you’re backpedaling with your SL.

On the other hand, if you take option B you might get stopped out during a fairly minor retracement, only to have the wave crest and drop again.

I suspect you use the former, since you seem to have trades going for weeks at a time. I’m very curious though, because this system really fits with my trading style and formalises a lot of the ideas I’ve been having recently.

Thanks!

[ThePhoenix]

Thanks for posting this, it’s very interesting. I have a question though. You change your stop loss every day at half of the 14 ATR away from the 10 EMA. Say you’re short in a down trending market. Does this mean that during a retracement, it is possible that today’s stop loss is higher than yesterday’s? Or would you just use the lowest SL reached to date based on your system?

The reason I ask is because I can see a problem with both eventualities.

If you take option A, and the market turns against your trade, you could lose a lot more of your profits because you’re backpedaling with your SL.

On the other hand, if you take option B you might get stopped out during a fairly minor retracement, only to have the wave crest and drop again.

I suspect you use the former, since you seem to have trades going for weeks at a time. I’m very curious though, because this system really fits with my trading style and formalises a lot of the ideas I’ve been having recently.

Thanks!

Nope, you only move the stop in the direction of the trend. So, if the ATR 50% + the 10 EMA is higher than your last stop you just don’t move it.

What happens can be as follows:

Best case scenario: You keep adjusting the stop down, until you are stopped out postive with a lot of gain. Or you just hit a big gain on a candle that hauls ass in your direction and you decide that is enough.

Worst case: You get stopped out from the first start.

What happens in between those two scenarios often enough: A. Your stop moves down to BE, so the trade is now 0 risk. B. You get stopped out with a small loss. C. You get stopped out with small gain. D. Stopped out at break even.

The end result is that you will have some Break even trades, some losses, some small losses, some small gains and the whole point… some very, very large winners that beat the stink off of the other trades.

It takes a lot more patience than scalping for quick profits, but it’s also less screen time and headaches… and is much easier.

[Pip_Wolf]

Great! Thanks for the reply; I have a standing rule about backpedaling with stop losses (i.e. it’s suicidal so never do it!) so I’m glad you’re on the same page.

Less screen time is always better. Some of the worst trading decisions I have ever made have been when I’ve been watching the screen after placing a trade. Conversely, the best win I’ve ever had was during a vacation. I set my final trade just before I went away, using a trailing stop. I apparently forgot to set my usual take profit, and came home to a huge 900 pip win. Since then I’ve been convinced that the less you interfere, the fewer opportunities to screw up you have. And that means more profit, not less.

Thanks again!

[this_barb]

I apparently forgot to set my usual take profit, and came home to a huge 900 pip win. Since then I’ve been convinced that the less you interfere, the fewer opportunities to screw up you have. And that means more profit, not less.

Thanks again!

That isn’t technically true. Overanalysis (in any discipline) is always a danger. However, you should always remember that in trading, just as in any business, venture, or hobby, YOU must remain in control. Here’s a simple scenario to illustrate the point: You come home to see that the market had rallied 900 pips and fallen 850 points.

Moral: Do not get sucked into the optimistic hype of a big win when the market can very well destroy you psychologically or financially at any moment in time.

If it sounds too pessimistic, scientific evidence suggests that people who are depressed become more analytic.

[gh0stJPY]

I think I see part of your problem, you are trying to enter as you see momentum and catch moves right as they happen. Price moves and zigs and zags, so even a 50 pip move doesn’t really mean much as far as the overall trend and strenght of it…this is the real problem with scalping the whip of any pair is going to kill you and almost always hit your SL if i’ts 50 pips and under… at least IME.

It can be done, but again, thats working very hard at trading. And as you’ve found you have to be glued to the screen to catch it as it happens.

If you want to trade S&R and momentum check out nickb’s method. I dont care for it, but it’s kind of like what you described. He, draws historically strong S&R on the 4H and when it is broke by x pips he enters with a 50 pip stop, I believe.

A better way, [U]which is decribed in the book in more detail[/U], to catch a potential move is to set up a stop order above or below potential movment.

Say you think price is going to go down/short because of a continuation pattern. ( Price previously was trending down, then maybe a flag formed sideways) Don’t just jump in as you see price moving. Wait for price to move up/long past your entry, then put in a pending/stop order below price and the continuation pattern (flag).

What this does is if price keeps moving up you never enter and know the pattern didn’t mean much. If price breaks down, the trade enters and you dont have to endure much drawdown for the moment.

I really urge you to get the book I recommended I believe it will help you a lot.

You really are working to hard at trading. You are smart enough, and it isn’t that you dont have some special knowledge or indicator. I’ve done exactly what you are describing, I can tell you scalping and trying to make money with small TP’s and SL, IE scalping is your whole problem.

Let me give you an example of how I trade. My trades routinely lose 50-100 pips or win 100 - x1000 pips. Yes, you read that right, several thousand pips. When I winning trade keeps going for a month or more I’m up a few thousand pips on one pair with one entry. I do it with very little stress and very little work. I enter and check my trades once a day and move the stop. Sure I look at the charts but when i’m around but I dont agonize over the trades and second guess it.

Anyway:

I use the trend technique from the book most of the time, I like trading trending pairs because of the huge profit potential.

1. I look at the pairs I like at the start of the daily candle, which is 6-7 in the evening in my time zone.

2. I filter the daily trend with 200,50,20 10 moving averages. If all the averages are lined up and price has been above/below the 10 average for 10 candles or more that indicates a possible strong trend. **** see the P.S.

3. I dont enter until price has retraced back to the 10 moving average or if I see a continuation pattern. Once it retraces back to the 10 I enter.

4. The stop is 50% the atr away from the 10 moving average.

5. The TP? There is no TP, you either close the trade when you’ve feel you have enough profit or you move the SL 50% the atr of the current closing candle every day. This can result in huge wins.

IME, you’ll kick yourself if you just close when in profit because if you just trailed every day, in a month you could be up 1000 pips. Also, there will be losses, and the huge wins dwarf the losses.

As you can see I didn’t look for instant big moves, that maybe happened at 2 AM or 11PM. I just found a way to indentify the trend and found a decent entry and trailed the stop at the close of every day. I dont have to worry about momentum or noise driving me crazy.

Lets just assume that what you are doing is profitable. Lets compare how you trade to how I trade.

You are in front of the screen all the time watching price like a hawk and trying to catch moves at all hours, and trying to guess when it will happen and how much it will happen.

I only really have to look at my screens once a day, decide to enter or not, and if I’m already entered move my stop once for that day. Even if both made the same profit, which one would you rather do? Which one sounds like it has a larger margin of human error?

P.S. the best thing I got from this book was to look for a, “tendancy in the market.” What a tendancy for something to happen tells you (on the daily charts) is where the big money is entering and taking profit. If you line up those MA’s, on most pairs you’ll see a tendancy to bounce off and return to the 10 MA, (or another one depending on how volatile and choppy the market is)

P.P.S. Even on daily pairs there are plenty of opportunities for good entries. No, you dont get them every day. But, more trades doesn’t = more profit, it’s actually the opposite. That is why you watch more than one pair. I only watch 4 pairs right now and usually get a good entry out of at least one of them once a week.

Hi Phoenix, is the book you are referring to: forex patterns and probabilities, by ED Ponsi??

Also, when u use 200,50,20,10 is that MA exp? or just MA? and what time frame is this on? weekly, daily, 4hr?? Thanks

[drew66man]

Heres a solution if your trades arn"t winning read some books especially the ones that every trader has read and recommended that will separate one from the crowd,then learn to use & rely on lagging indicators that give false signals they will definately point one to the perfect entry, enrol in one those online learn to trade courses the one where it makes over 50k a month trading and everyone else is an underachiever cos they cant make 1200 pips aweek!
If you can get a million sheep in the corner of a paddock do you think the fox will know where the sheep are!
Blank charts no indicators,pure price action works everytime(ancient rice trader style),forget the trades everyone teachs one to take you watch them candlesticks long enough one begins to realise that if you trade how they (bilderbergs) want you to trade you will never win! Success comes from self knowlegde ones own divine inner intuition…Believe in your self and suceed!Defeat all odds with the power of truth,all truth comes from god so perfect your soul and your craft will follow!God likes men who grow like trees,man was given the creation to create so create your own destiny not what was written in a book that was the authors destiny not yours!

[Sweet_Pip]

Heres a solution if your trades arn"t winning…!

[B][I]Defeat all odds with the power of truth,all truth comes from god so perfect your soul and your craft will follow!God likes men who grow like trees,man was given the creation to create so create your own destiny not what was written in a book that was the authors destiny not yours![/I][/B]

OMG!!! :eek:

[leveragedopinion]

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I wanted to thank you, but I had to walk away from it all for a bit.

You mention a book, but you don’t mention the book. What’s the book?

I didn’t really like Nick’s method either, but I do take with me some of what he mentions.

I have been watching daily pairs, and find it ok. In the evening, like you mentioned, I check all the pairs. If something looks good, I’ll make a note for the morning. The only problem I have now, is I’m not a morning person, so I’ve missed out on a lot of easy ones. Actually all the easy ones, because I’m late to the gate. I always hope it will still be ok when I get home from work, but by then it’s gone. So I don’t know what’s worse. Hangin on the edge or bumbling along.

If I’m ever going to do this, I’ll have to quit my day job. There is no such thing as doing this part time. It’s impossible on any time frame.

OK, this quote is from the OP’s last post on this thread, and I’m gonna repeat what a lot of others have already said, it’s not that scalping can’t be done, but it’s highly unlikely that you will be able to do it based on your description of your reactions to price.

I did it too. Now I trade daily’s and weekly’s. I been long the pound for 4 weeks and it’s half way to my target. May never get there. I don’t care. No stress, no stop-and-reverse, no M15 charts. No getting my a** handed to me for using a 15 pip stop.

Everybody is different. Find whatever it is about yourself that makes you unique, and leverage it into profit.

You would probably be better served by quitting trading than continuing to scalp. Or you could just move up the the longer TF’s, and despite all the boredom, make money.

I remember you posting on the NLA thread 2 years ago. Move on. Scalping is not your thing.

If you want to know how I do it, I’d be glad to share, just be prepared for boredom.

[justlearning]

Hi Edacsca,

If you don’t have a strategy to do the analysis before initiate a trade I would like to advice you sincerely to check the cowabunga system. I did a lot of succes with this strategy with some modifications just to fit my personnality. Try to stick with one major pair until you gain more confidence of yourself.

Good luck, Buddy.

From Montreal, Canada:)

the “COWABUNGA SYSTEM” (I love the name) is a lagging system, but it follows the trend and hence makes pips…I only trade with a revised “COWABUNGA SYSTEM” 4 hour and 1 hour charts…mate!! a 4 pip stop loss on the eur/usd!!!..i

[Megaforex]

I am sorry to read about your story. And I really think that you know how to trade but your attitude towards trading is what is killing you. You start trading thinking that you will lose money, and remember the law of atraction. I also think that you need a forex strategy, to let you know when to enter and when to exit, but first change your attitude, think like a winner and think about forex like any other business, when sometime you win and sometimes you lose, but is how you face your loses that will determine your success in forex.
Remember not to change your strategy if you are losing stick to it, and be discipline and you will see you will be successful.

[I]How you respond to the challenge in the second half will determine what you become after the game, whether you are a winner or a loser.
Lou Holtz [/I]

Maria
Fx-Megaforex
Smart solutions to your professional trader.

[edacsac]

I have to set me up an email notification to threads. All these thoughtful posts that I might have missed.

I’ve made one trade since my last visit to this site, which was probably when I last visited this thread. All criteria pointed strongly towards a buy on the 1D, 4H and 15M. Got 9 pips in the good before I had to get some sleep. Slept well knowing I opened up a good trade. By morning I find it turned around and hit my stop for 55 pips. I tried to stay up as I prefer to set my stop to break even before going to sleep, but I couldn’t do it; 9 pips isn’t nearly enough. I was trying to set this up based on the daily chart. I guess when you only trade once a month or so, you can’t expect to get good very quickly.

I’m not a fan of the law of attraction. Some things might make sense in proper context, but most people forgot about the most important ingredient when learning about attraction.

[akeakamai]

I have to set me up an email notification to threads. All these thoughtful posts that I might have missed.

I’ve made one trade since my last visit to this site, which was probably when I last visited this thread. All criteria pointed strongly towards a buy on the 1D, 4H and 15M. Got 9 pips in the good before I had to get some sleep. Slept well knowing I opened up a good trade. By morning I find it turned around and hit my stop for 55 pips. I tried to stay up as I prefer to set my stop to break even before going to sleep, but I couldn’t do it; 9 pips isn’t nearly enough. I was trying to set this up based on the daily chart. I guess when you only trade once a month or so, you can’t expect to get good very quickly.

I’m not a fan of the law of attraction. Some things might make sense in proper context, but most people forgot about the most important ingredient when learning about attraction.

I have a little trick that I use, for times when I think my ideal trading mindset might be compromised. I take the same trades I would take normally but I cut the lot size to fractions until I see my system make some wins. I don’t take all the risk out because bearing risk is what makes me a stronger trader IMO. Usually I’ll cut it in half, or sometimes to 1/10 when I think something is quite wrong. Red Flags for me are jumping the gun on a trade, or hesitating a good entry, and the worst, taking random unplanned trades.

Some might say that the best thing to do is walk away from trading, but personally I’ve found that reinforces the idea that I don’t have any control over myself, and it eats away at my confidence. Also, being actively involved in learning from your losses and the emotions that compound them, is the most efficient use of your time.

Over time, you should get to the point where you’re so confident in your system that you very rarely have to cut back the risk. If you analyze your losses, you can tell which are because of natural drawdown, and which are the result of poor discipline/confidence.

[leveragedopinion]

Got 9 pips in the good before I had to get some sleep. Slept well knowing I opened up a good trade. By morning I find it turned around and hit my stop for 55 pips.

If it helps at all…I had 2 positions on gbp/nzd last week, up 1000 and 900 pips respectively…got stopped out at break even yesterday.

Yeah…that’s 1900 pips gone.

That’s just the way it goes sometimes.

[FX1]

If it helps at all…I had 2 positions on gbp/nzd last week, up 1000 and 900 pips respectively…got stopped out at break even yesterday.

Yeah…that’s 1900 pips gone.

That’s just the way it goes sometimes.

leveragedopinion,

This is called gambling not trading. You need to learn the difference.

[leveragedopinion]

leveragedopinion,

This is called gambling not trading. You need to learn the difference.

In my defense, the trades were based off of monthly patterns with multi-thousand pip targets.

I’ve already re-entered. I want to be in this til December.

[sophieolivia]

I am sorry to read about your story. And I really think that you know how to trade but your attitude towards trading is what is killing you. You start trading thinking that you will lose money, and remember the law of atraction. I also think that you need a forex strategy, to let you know when to enter and when to exit, but first change your attitude, think like a winner and think about forex like any other business, when sometime you win and sometimes you lose, but is how you face your loses that will determine your success in forex.
Remember not to change your strategy if you are losing stick to it, and be discipline and you will see you will be successful.

[I]How you respond to the challenge in the second half will determine what you become after the game, whether you are a winner or a loser.
Lou Holtz [/I]

Maria
Fx-Megaforex
Smart solutions to your professional trader.

Agreed with you. Attitude & Mindset is the very main thing to decide if you will be successful trader…

I can advise you to pick up a book from Donald Trump called Think Big & Kick Ass… It set your mind to a whole new level…

Hope this helps…

[qwertymyfx]

the “COWABUNGA SYSTEM” (I love the name) is a lagging system, but it follows the trend and hence makes pips…I only trade with a revised “COWABUNGA SYSTEM” 4 hour and 1 hour charts…mate!! a 4 pip stop loss on the eur/usd!!!..i

cowabunga system is good for noobs on how to learn how to make a system