I’ve been studying trading through this site, the ICT channel, several books, and a demo account for about 10 months. I also tried a real account for one month, but I lost 3% of my balance, and that loss changed my mindset. So I stopped and went back to building a new strategy in a demo account. Now I feel overwhelmed with too much data and knowledge that only confuses me, and I’ve developed a new fear of starting live trading again.
I’m tired, socially disconnected (I moved to a new country and lost my friends and colleagues), and the pressure feels heavy. I really want to make trading my career, but my old habits keep pulling me back toward my previous job. What would you, as seniors, say to me? Any advice, even just a single sentence, would mean a lot.
Start at 0.01 lot. Buy when you believe price will increase; short when you believe price will fall. 1-1 Risk to Reward ratio. Don’t increase size until you can achieve >50% win rate.
Was that significantly out-of-step with the results from, say, the last half of the 10-month period on demo?
No individual month’s results mean all that much, in isolation, maybe?
I make an average of +3% per month, but individual months’ results range from -3% to +9%, so a month at -3% wouldn’t shock me. But your mileage may vary, I appreciate.
How many trades per month do you do?
Are a single month’s results statistically significant, given your system?
And to what degree of confidence?
We can’t really say much, productively, without knowing at least all that. Others may try to, even NOT knowing that, but if you’re intending to trade for a living, you’ll already know how important it is to be selective over who you choose to be guided by? But that’s certainly good advice just above, from EE!
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You’re right, on paper one month isn’t a big deal.
The harder part for me is more on the inside: I feel kind of worn out, since this way of thinking and working is still so new to me. Logically what you said makes complete sense, but emotionally it just hits differently.
I’ve even tried writing the statistics down for myself (daily, weekly, monthly) to avoid these feelings and to see that I’m still on trackو but in the bigger picture the emotions still take control (and for God’s sake, in my very first month with real money I may have gone beyond my control!).
Did you ever do anything special that worked for you?
I think we probably have very different approaches.
For me, “good, calm, confident psychology” comes just from knowing that every time I enter a trade, it has a net-positive expectancy (“edge”).
I don’t honestly understand how anyone can cope at all, without knowing that as a certainty.
It’s what half the people posting in the thread linked-to below think. The other half are maybe fans of Mark Douglas and seem to disagree, and I suspect you’re among them, one way or another? Nothing wrong with that at all, if it’s what you believe, but it does mean that I probably can’t help you, to be honest. Sorry!!
Edited to add: sorry to see you’ve deleted your post above and what you asked me, but I’ll leave my reply here anyway, in case reading through the thread I’ve linked to just above can help you. I think it’s helped a few other people.
First post here, I wasn’t sure how to reply, so I ended up sending a few and apparently deleted them all! by the way you’re awesome, I’ll remember this .
Welcome to the wild crazy world of trading and to the forum, @Maede
I struggled for 11+ years, read 100s of books, went through countless strategies, blew up 3 trading accounts and paid an eye-watering amount of money in “tuition”, i.e. losses.
If I had to do it all over again, I would, I have no regrets only my “education” could have been a little cheaper
I’ve been at it for 17 years now and am currently in my 5th year as a full time professional.
I feel your pain, I blew up (lost 100%) 3 accounts and tried virtually every strategy under the sun. Your decision to stop and go back to demo trading was the best decision you could’ve made. Just be careful not to jump from strategy to strategy.
Information overload is normal when starting something new. Fear is good, trust it. It’s telling you to be careful because you don’t have enough knowledge and experience to be trading with real money.
I can relate, I’ve moved around including to countries on the other side of world for work. Yes, it got lonely and a bit scary when I was unfamiliar with the work culture and social norms. Eventually I got used to moving around a lot and I gained experience at much more accelerated pace than colleagues who didn’t move around.
Yes, I also wanted to trade full time, but I also realized that I would need a lot more capital in order to trade with less risk and still make a living. So I focused on my career, started my own management consulting firm, took on clients for 10 years, built up enough capital then made the decision to go full time.
But for the first 1½ years as a full time trader, I didn’t trade at all but dedicated 60+ hours a week to learning the profession of trading, e.g. like I did engineering at the university, by finding mentors and cracking open the 800 page books on technical and market analysis, not watching ICT or YouTube videos. I learned more in these 1½ years with my full mental capacity than in the 11 previous years struggling as a part time trader.
BTW, I know several pro traders (2 of them with 50+ years on wall street) and none of them take “hero trades”, ever. Managing risk and capital preservation is top priority for every professional, just after so many years professionals have ingrained this habit so they no longer need to consciously think about it.
Yes, well said. This needs to be tattooed backwards on every trader’s forehead, so they are reminded of it whenever they look in a mirror. Even post it notes on a monitor can work
Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts.
My personal “a-ha” moment was realizing that strategies don’t matter, only whether the market agrees with my positioning. In other words, all trend following strategies will work when the market is trending, all range trading strategies will work when the market is ranging.
I only wanted to trade the big trends, so that’s why I focused the 1½ years (60+ hours a week) after going full time to analyzing markets in order to forecast (with high accuracy) which markets were going to trend over the coming months. Then the strategy didn’t matter, I only needed to know which market was going to trend and get in, then let the market do its thing.
In essence, I went from no strategy working for me for 11 years to every strategy working—including random coin flip entries—because it’s the market movements that matter not the strategy.
I can see what you are talking about. Most traders were there, including myself. It is so easy to get overwhelmed. My 11 years of experience brought me to the conclusion that most of the things we are “taught” by different “mentors”, gurus and all the online data are completely useless. There are only 3 simple steps that are required for becoming profitable in trading.
Wow, I’m honestly speechless. That’s one epic journey you basically earned a PhD in “Tuition Payments” the hard (and expensive) way. But the way you describe it makes it clear it was worth every step and that feeling of “no regrets” is exactly what I’m chasing.
Thanks for sharing the details of your story, it really helps to hear raw, unfiltered experiences like yours. Trading feels sooo different from most other careers…
Right now, I’ve worked and invested enough to step back from my job and fully dedicate myself to trading, while my husband plays the role of “angel investor.” At least this way, when I lose money, we can still afford dinner:)))
Now that I’m all in, I need to set metrics for myselfotherwise I’ll just end up “researching” charts forever and calling it work.
I keep asking myself: do I go the formal route with a Master’s and a bank desk job, or keep grinding toward true independence on my own? Either way, it feels like I’ve just opened the first heavy chapter of this book, and I’m excited to see where it goes.
It didn’t always feel this way and I had my doubts along the way. However I knew that in order to live life on my own terms I needed to make money without selling my time. And despite the setbacks, trading still seemed the most realistically achievable way for me.
I get it, but it actually isn’t. I would look at trading as a profession or vocation before “education” was institutionalized, like a carpenter, blacksmith, jeweler, baker or merchant in the 1700s. Back then a novice would become an apprentice under someone much more experienced and learn on the job.
The reason why most traders fail today is because they try to do it all on their own, especially trying to learn from other failed traders (=YouTube “gurus”, ICT, etc) who found it easier to make money from content creation than from the markets.
Unfortunately the trading community gives new traders unrealistic expectations, but trading is no different from any other career. Imagine someone trying to become a professional engineer, doctor, boxer, golfer or lawyer after 6 months of watching YouTube videos, reading information on the internet or researching through ChatGPT.
Remember that trading is a zero sum game, your profits come from someone else’s losses. Beginners are in the same arena as seasoned professionals who show no mercy. Unfortunately, no one will coddle the part-time, self-taught traders, who often end up the biggest losers. Even hedge funds and professional fund managers end up on the losing side when macroeconomic conditions change.
Great that you have family support, it will mean a lot during setbacks.
Honestly, there was no reason for me to lose any money when I was new. I lost a lot of money trying to take shortcuts & unnecessary risk simply because taking the time to learn and develop skills properly felt too slow and boring.
Whatever route you choose, you will need the right knowledge, skills and experience before you can make a living from trading. And the learning never stops even for professional traders.
I personally did it on my own but honestly I wouldn’t have made it without professional mentors. I waited 11 years before seeking mentors but could have significantly shortened my journey by years if I had done it earlier.
Unfortunately even many that go the formal academic route (Master’s degree) don’t make it as independent traders. Yes, I know a few fund managers working at banks but they are unable to quit their jobs and do it on their own.
In my personal opinion, I think going through a mentor who has a long established track record is the best option for aspiring independent traders. However, aspiring traders really must do their homework on who they will listen to and choose as their mentors. There are a LOT of scammers and charlatans out there.
Full transparency: I have no commercial aspirations and have no desire to mentor anyone over the internet. I make more than enough just from the markets and prioritize my time freedom over anything else. I post on this board to kill the boredom on certain days
Having said this, I’ll be happy to answer questions.
Quite a few of the others were bots, too. They were just duplicating the usual junk. I did point out a couple of them.
Not many real traders, and no successful ones, are going to disagree with what’s said there by the “half” of the posters you were referring to. The ones who disagree are - as so often - a mixture of bots, marketers and losers.
This is all part of life’s rich tapestry “forum syndrome”: all opinions have an equal right to be expressed, but not all of them should carry equal weight!
Yeah, I totally agree with you about the level of mentors. The ones who really know what they’re doing are already making more money from trading itself than from teaching it. The tricky part is, as a beginner, the only sources we usually have access to are exactly those people.
I’ve been trying to just take the basics and the general perspective from them, and then work on my own, even if that means taking some losses along the way, because I know that’s how I’ll actually learn. But just like you said, the absence of a proper mentor is something I can really feel.
I’ve tried posting here to get feedback from the seniors in the group, but can I ask, how did you actually find your mentor? Unfortunately, in my own circle I don’t really know anyone at the level where I could turn to them for mentorship.
Not quite, you have access to everyone on the internet however the only sources beginners gravitate to are these people because they specialize in making the most marketable, attractive and entertaining content.
There are real traders who know what they’re doing on the internet. They however are good at trading, not at content creation so they often have very few followers or they only create premium content for their subscribing members.
Just a word of warning, real trading is boring. It’s not what beginners were lead to believe and definitely not as fun and as exciting as what attracted them to trading in the first place.
You should also know that 99% of traders on this forum are not profitable enough to make a living from trading. The sad reality is that many of the trading forums and retail trading community are an echo chamber of the blind leading the blind.
Having said that, I found my mentors through personal contacts and recommendations. I also found some people on the internet that definitely know what they’re talking about.
Before finding a mentor, it’s important that you understand your “trading personality”, the markets you’re interested in and how you actually want to trade. Personally I don’t watch or look up trading content but I can make some general recommendations of professional traders who know what they’re doing and they teach others. As I wrote these guys are traders, not content creators so their videos aren’t as polished or as entertaining as the content creating “gurus” who don’t trade.
Anyways, it costs nothing to reach out to these guys and have a conversation:
Michael Martin is well known by all the big professional traders, but trades more stocks & equities. This guy has probably forgotten more about trading than I will ever learn in my lifetime. He mentors traders but I’ve never tried his services. Trader Mindset - YouTube
Jason Shapiro is also well known in the professional trading circles and manages a large portfolio (other people’s money, I believe). He says he teaches others but I’ve never reached out nor tried his services. Crowded Market Report - YouTube
Nick Shawn: This guy is a pure trader, very little analysis, trades mostly FX and teaches others. Suggest you at the very least join his free discord channel. Nick Shawn - YouTube
But that’s certainly good advice just above, from EE!
