Yep, this indie is pretty popular among VSA traders, and I’ve used it on and off, so it’s not like we’re experimenting. The key is making sure it’s used properly.
I’m not changing the settings and it would be nice if everyone keeps it. At 34 it doesn’t get easily fooled into turning to soon. It’s tempting to move it down to 20 and catch those turning points early…but you get a lot of fakes.
The idea with this setting is that you don’t have to wait for it to turn colors on an aggressive reversal trade, but when it does change it tells you the markup/down has most likely begun with better odds in your favor. And it’s nice for getting into trending moves that have not hit a climax when it’s not so reactive to little pullbacks.
Pete. I used the Hull MA a while ago. Its just a MA. What is the reasoning behind using this? I thought we base our trading off the market logic, supply and demand. I always have a problem using indicators like this because after all… what use is the talk of the MA changing color when there are a billions settings which will cause a color change at different times. As you said here you will use the setting 34, but what trust can you put into this? I thought VSA is about trading the facts, not the lagging MA? do you suggest we adopt this also or are you just experimenting? thanks
[QUOTE=Epidot;338153]Pete. I used the Hull MA a while ago. Its just a MA. What is the reasoning behind using this? I thought we base our trading off the market logic, supply and demand. I always have a problem using indicators like this because after all… what use is the talk of the MA changing color when there are a billions settings which will cause a color change at different times. As you said here you will use the setting 34, but what trust can you put into this? I thought VSA is about trading the facts, not the lagging MA? do you suggest we adopt this also or are you just experimenting?
Thats a good question and Pete has mentioned that a lot of vsa traders use it in conjunction with vsa. Even the trade guider software has a moving average on it, although i don’t like it. As the thread goes on i’m sure he will explain it in more detail. Cheers,
Yes I tried to figure out what MA TG uses. I got it as close as possible on an MA of 29. So i guess similar to this Hull MA. Im just not keen on any indicators where they depend solely on what settings you have input, lets face it. An RSI line can show thousands of variations depending on the inputs which IMO renders it useless. Same goes for other indicators.
But I am keen to see how Pete uses this MA. Perhaps uses it just for filtering our bad trades by trading only with the trend. In which case im all for, but using it to trade only when it turns color or something is not something I agree with. It could go from red to blue or blue to red at any point, as I said depending on the settings you choose.
trade guider uses a 20 sma which is way different then the HMA ( i have both on my monitor, can’t lose the TG ma without the signals ). In their forum, no one used the TG default ma but changed the settings. I know that the 15 minute time frame HMA tends to give a good intra-day trend which can be helpfull. Do you use trade guider??
I dont use TG but I just watched all the vids and seminars on Youtube. Well the TG documentation does show a MA of 20 but on one of the TG seminars, Gavin shows his modified MA for the first time. It is this one which I tried to figure out and it was 29MA.
I wish I could use TG however only for the H,L,C bars exluding the open. And also the markers showing any of the 400 SOS and SOW signals. Other than that, you can do the rest on MT4.
i assume you read the book trading in the shadow of the smart money which is quite good. the signals for the most part don’t really help. the mt4 plug in doesn’t have the clusters to show S/R whichi liked , but other then that Petes method is far more sound in relation to spot forex. in fairness to trade guider, i’m sure their software works far better for stocks, spot fx is a different game.
YEa I read that book. Master the markets is really good also. Well I like Petes method for 1 Hr and 5 Min alon with SnR, trends and Fibs… I guess I can ignor the MA and 15 min if I want. Its no problem. I dont want to cloud my mind with that if Im still getting to grips with this method. to be fair, Pete did say in his post that newbs should continue to learn the Original VSa method and not this MA thing. I will just follow with interest
The way I see it, it could be very usefull in rangy markets and for short term trades. For example, in e/u we didn’t see any SV on 1H chart for a long time, but that doesn’t mean there are no valid short term VSA setups. Using averages, which I think are somehow similar to fibs (just look how close the price moves to MA line in retracement), you can be more calm when entering the market and of course it is visually more clear.
When price is near the line, and you see MA turning green (MA is in favour of bulls), in the same time you get VSA setup (strengths, ns/nd, continuation signals), you have very high probability trade. But of course, with reasonable target!
Protekst, Mikey, you got the right idea. Epidot, you might want to read again carefully what I wrote about the HMA, but I do understand your response, and it’s a good one…if you know what I mean. We are not all at the same place in our trading, and your position is totally justified. Moving averages have nothing to do with the balance of supply and demand. They are about averaging price and time. After one is very experienced in VSA, he might find a particular use or two for a moving average lol. That’s probably a good way to put it. I will definitely explain more about it’s use.
By the way, I had 2 small wins today using my regular old method. I watched the hull but found no VSA entry to match.
If I understand you correctly, you’re asking weather I’d rather wait for the trend to begin to get an entry, or simply enter after strength/weakness on high volume followed by a NS/ND, push or shakeout type entry.
Both are perfectly valid, I don’t have a preference. I must say though, this is one of my favorite setups…that I call the golden setup.
Accum/markup begins, markup pulls back without having hit hi vol supply, then it hits the 50,618 retracement and stopping volume to look for the long entry on the 5min. So that’s the first pullback after the accumm and trend have happened. It often lines up with a break/test/continuation pattern. But again, either way I’ll take it.
…There’s also the question of jumping in on trending moves off a simple nd/ns. I don’t tend to do that as often. I talked about it in a post not long ago.
There was a perfectly valid long setup on EU today that I didn’t take. 1hr stopping vol, 5min stopping vol/ns/shakeout push …it was all there. Right now I’d be sitting in draw down on it late in the day…not good lol. My plan today was to sell on an up move that hit supply, but it didn’t come around.
My point, I don’t mess with picking bottom/top on these types of moves. They probably happen say, every few months on average…you know, the “WTF” moves. Plowing right through stopping volume to go lower etc. I made a post explaining all about it, and how to handle it but I can’t find it, but yeah…I learned this the hard way on my way up, so listen, and learn it the easy/free way lol.
Awesome…so obviously I took some of that, and some Tom Williams, and simplified it for my approach. But, it’s nice to have that all posted here so people can see the source and maybe include more/all for their own trading style.
Thanks Pete. Yes, I also think this is important to keep on the page. Wyckoff can be a bit complicated, but tremendously helpful when determining phase and future trend.
I watched the hull but found no VSA entry to match.