Supporting my Extraordinary Son

[danallen]

I suggest you do not publish his system on here or anywhere else and let / encourage him to continue, as you seem to be doing.

I figured whatever formula he has, if it works needs to be his secret. If he works with me on making the tick data easier to use, which he says would be great, I would start getting close to finding out his formula. He says the formula is too complicated to be programmed. That is not possible. In fact, I bet when it comes down to it, his formula is simple. He probably does not know what the formula is. Figuring out de facto formulas is one of my specialties. Funny story. In 1989, I was working at a Big Eight accounting firm in the Consulting division. We had one of the Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies as a client, who was starting to convert to a managed care model. There was a pricing table for various procedures projected over years. The Senior consultant on the job suddenly jumped ship and I was kid, recent hire. The boss told me to acquaint myself with the pricing table. There was something about it that I felt needed to be simplified. It seemed like certain numbers were being multiplied in and the divided out over and over. I don’t know what took so long, but after about two days doing nothing else, I finally had it all worked out. The pricing table was EXACTLY equal to current year prices with inflation adjustments applied across the board every year. All the rest of the mumbo jumbo cancelled out. I was thrilled and darted into the boss’s office to tell him the great news, I had it it all figured out, we could forget all the complications, just apply inflation every year and we were done. The boss was not pleased. The specific assignment from the client was not simply apply inflation. I was giving him bad news, that we had sold a crocko de shitto to the client. It was years before i could see this situation from my boss’s point of view.

My point is I am going to figure out his formula if I can, but I am not going to steal it or give it away. I am going to put it into software that makes his job easier and more stable. I told Steve one of the most important things about his situation now that everything must be done in a manner that protects his interests and makes everything in this business his property with practical enforcement mechanisms. He keeps telling me about his friends. like the one who is going to be his CFO and I keep reminding him that his friend is going to think the company or parts of it are his someday and Steve is going to have to be able to fire his friend and not be vulnerable to a law suit. I told him the same applies to his parents.

His trust level goes up and down. In moments of trust, I think he is willing for me to know the formula.

What I don’t know is whether it is possible for his formula to work.

[danallen]

@Falstaff

It sounds as though he has access to “Tick data”

I think what he is looking for is tick data. I don’t know what he he is getting yet. I need to install the forex.com software and see what is going on. I have to work through some technicalities of running Windows on a Mac, then I will have it.

With an active account at Forex.com, you get historic tick data in csv files, it not real time like he (and you?) need it.[quote=“Falstaff, post:22, topic:125668”]
[EDit - yes - perhaps you can help a lot in “Covering his back” with regard to the “business side” of his venture, using your greater experience of the world ]
[/quote]

I think you now are getting what my intention is. The problem is not that I am going meddle. The problem is among the people whose intentions I trust, I am the absolute least capable of providing back coverage he might benefit from. His problem is he has no one else, except his crooked mother.

[chistianov]

He does need to deposit the money, but is basically works just as a bank account, you can pull out any amount of money
An advice to give to him is, Keep it small and simple untill you know you can handle more
Going full on with the 10K probably is a bad idea, as it seems as his first time using a live account, but probably if he has already some time studying as you say, he already knows this

[Falstaff]

@danallen

With an active account at Forex.com, you get historic tick data in csv files, it not real time like he (and you?) need it.

CSV data will enable you to “back test” over the period of the data - That is what I want to do and it would enable you to test your programme in a historical way. Your advantage would be that you have no knowledge of previous action and therefore no bias. - Do you need to do the $5k deposit before you can access the csv’s or does a “Demo account” suffice ?

I’ve sent you a PM on the subject, but I’m unsure as to whether your “Trust level” on here is sufficient yet for you to receive them - have you received ?

Interesting your experience in 1989 - I was freelancing for a major NGO about 12 years ago and was called on to do “Spot audits” on various accounts - found them several million £s and all hell broke loose ! My boss said "we’ve been doing these for 5 years and never found anything - now you come along and find all this - Why ? " - said “I’m Commercial, I looked in the places I would Rip you off !”

My contract was terminated shortly afterwards of course through “Funding not available to pay your fees !”

Subsequent References taken, five years later - and my same line manager said "some of the systems he put in place are still being used today ! "

Yes I can see your intentions and find them both laudable and in fact almost essential.

That “crooked mother” may well turn out to be the one who uses “Guilt” and “love” to Disastrous financial effect in the fullness of time - How does he feel about her ?

[Falstaff]

@danallen

I think what he is looking for is tick data. I don’t know what he he is getting yet. I need to install the forex.com software and see what is going on. I have to work through some technicalities of running Windows on a Mac, then I will have it.

How expensive is a “lenovo” computer ? - dedicated just to this purpose perhaps ?

[zarathustra000]

Lets be real here for a second though. If he truly is going unleveraged the risk is not that severe. You must try really hard to lose 10k on an unleveraged account.

[Falstaff]

You must try really hard to lose 10k on an unleveraged account.

The lad is not “losing”

[zarathustra000]

Never said he is, just wanted to tackle the concern about potential risk connected with his son trading forex. It is very safe in the mentioned circumstance.

[TradeViper]

I brought this up with Steve. He says the kid with the trust fund understand he might lose all his investment. He is investing only part of his trust fund, of course.

This is an area where I think Steve is particularly naive. His friend understanding the words of risk now is not going to be the same as his friend who is out $10k. I am warning my son that he could lose a friend and get sued. I don’t see much else to do about this now except hope the loss of the $10K never happens.

Mr Allen, your son MUST have a contractual agreement, like in writing, outlining the following.

1. Possibility of loss of capital.
2. Management fees
3. Trader commissions, including high water marks etc.
4. Drawdown limits if any, leverage, % at rask at any one time etc.

I believe your son will find, that trading OPM is a totally different animal as opposed to trading you own money. So this along with trading a larger size, will affect his thinking, so he will have to contend with this also.

I recommend he risk only 1-2%, and if he does, then if he uses stops, he will have to adjust trade size, and size of stop to meet this goal.

The Ever Best Wishes VIPER

[Falstaff]

The Ever Best Wishes VIPER

I agree - that contracts need to be set up - If OP is on the square, that may be done relatively easily,. The other points you make whilst very valid, seem to have been addressed, with the exception of OPM.

“Buzzy Schwartz” - “Pit Bull” couldn’t cope with that aspect. Neither could I - but my Uncle, was fine with OPM - but would not risk his own !

He was very successful with OPM tho’

[anon81929759]

He is looking for a live feed coming directly out of the forex market,

Hi mate
What you are trying to ask is “He is looking for a data stream that comes directly from the interbank network”

Now… is there such a thing YES
Will he get his hands on that NOT A CHANCE

Look at like buying an Apple from the Grocery store for $1
me and you are not going to get it for the same price that the farmer sells it to the Grocery store for.
simple as that.

He can tap into the Data Feed from the broker, say by setting up a database or External Data Sources in Excel or something like that, sure
but the price from the source, NO, that’ won’t happen.
we all go through a phase where it occurs to us that’s what we should have . it doesn’t happen. Unless he somehow gets a job in one of the banks in the interbank network.

at the end of they day, he is trading off the price given to him from his broker

[anon81929759]

@danallen

Bless you.

Thank you

@danallen

If I understand correctly, the key point here is “reputable broker”.

Yes, because all the testing in the world doesn’t mean a damn thing if your broker is dodgy, and all the profits in the world do not mean a thing if you can’t withdraw them.

@danallen

I am just trying to help my son know about how he can lose so he can avoid the pitfalls.

I understand completely

@danallen

I am concerned about the particular person at forex.com who is working with Steve. He called Steve, and said he could see Steve’s trading results, he is impressed, and basically is going to make my son a star, I figure that is the crook in the house. I told Steve it would be a good idea of verify the guy really is affiliated with Forex.com. Steve says he did that.

I understand
IS THIS GUY A CROOK ? - Could be, but not necessarily

First rule is, Never trust anyone at the brokerage.
a Broker is like your insurance company, you can have a nice relationship with them, but at the end of the day, THEY ARE THERE TO TAKE YOUR MONEY. You don’t trust them

Now this is who you get at the broker on the phone
More commonly than not ACCOUNT MANAGER - This is usually a sales person, Usually hasn’t got a clue as to how to trade and probably never did successfully.
This person’s job is to convert people that come onto demo TO GO TO LIVE.
Their Target is to have you blow your account within 90 days (it’s a company policy), that’s why you hear that 95% of retail traders blow their account in the first 90 days, or more realistically the first month if not less

this salesperson (due to lack of experience) may also be impressed by your son.
You said your a Programmer… right ?
Well, I’m an I.T. Engineer

you know level of humour you get when you show a newcomer how to start programming and you open a command shell to start showing them python
and they are impressed by the mere appearance of the shell hehe
of when you get a computer tech who is green and you show him how to reformat a computer and you show him how to select a boot device in the CMOS Utility
and once in the CMOS Utility, he acts really impressed because he’s never seen it before, then he looks at you with godlike status as if you discovered fire or something
THAT’S WHAT AN ACCOUNT MANAGE IS LIKE - They are the Monkey’s of the industry
if your son has achieved what you are saying, He is probably impressing the crap out of the manager.

it does not mean for a second that the Account manager can do anything for him.
NOR WOULD I TRUST HIM TO IF HE REALLY COULD

You get 2 types of account managers.

• The New ones that have been there under 3 Months, they talk the talk, have good intentions, but really don’t know a damn thing other than selling - you shouldn’t trust these guys, they have no forex experience

• Then you have the ones that know what the game is and they have malicious intentions - don’t trust these guys, they are malicious

• Then you have your Analysts - These guys usually have Economic degree’s and know what’s going on. but they will usually have the company interest at heart before yours - they have experience, but YOU CAN’T TRUST WHAT THEY TELL YOU - it’s a conflict of interest

basically there is no one at the broker you can trust
they just perform a function, simple as that.

@danallen

I passed this on to Steve and we both are grateful for your experience on this.

You’re Welcome

@danallen

So, when my son is watching the trades stream by spots something and clicks his mouse to make a trade, the broker makes his own trades in combination with my sons’s trade?

at times… YES
if your son is BUYING EUR USD
he is BUYING EURO’s which means someone has to SELL USD
that could be the broker pairing that trade with someone else (let’s say ME for example) or
the broker may choose to take the other side of the trade
it depends.

[danallen]

“Funding not available to pay your fees !”

Doesn’t that just kill you? You found them several million quid and they don’t have the funding to pay you? It should have been a fat bonus and big party in your honor. Heck, with that kind of found money, they could commission a statue in your likeness, but instead, they cut you off.
Swift kick to the groin for the perpetrators and then explain to them how they are going to restore your losses resulting from their crime, that is my vote.

That type of thing disheartens me. It would be great if it were just an irony to laugh at, but that stuff dominates our lives because it is pervasive and limits our our access to resources on this overcrowded planet. Very disturbing, but I appreciate the story. Thank you for telling it.

[danallen]

What a fantastic lesson, thank you. I don’t have a lot to say except every word wrote makes complete sense to me. I’ll add this, Steve is a sucker for their flattery game, the poor kid, he wants to be appreciated. Flattery is bound to get through to him. I did not have the experience to pin the details, but I could smell the rat on this. I knew the broker is not there for Steve’s benefit. I like how you put it, they have a function to perform. You need them for the function, deal with them wisely, they are a trader’s friend, but their interests are served by acting like they are a friend. This is going to be very tough for Steve to grasp until he has been burned… I am going to try getting him to read your post.

I used the word “crook.” That is the wrong word ,but at the same time, the end result isn’t far off from what a crook gets you, unless you are wise to the situation.

[anon81929759]

Indeed,
and i’ll admit when i started in forex around 7 years ago as a newbie, i did indeed think that this bloke on the phone was a top bloke, he sounded like a really good guy, he used to give me information for free, he used to say things like this (half of which i wasn’t really understanding to be honest, hehe
but he said things like…

“I like the look of the EURUSD Today, we’ve had some really positive data out of london and the Euro is strengthening , i see a bullish market ahead, now if that doesn’t happen it’ll go down to this point, but i really like the look of it and i think the it’s gonig bullish, I WOULD BUY THE MARKET”

hehe… Welll Yeah, of course it will
and if i go to a fortune teller they might say “Martin you will have good luck this week, but a few bad things may happen”

so now i would listen to him and Buy the EUR USD

• if it came good and went up - He would say, see, i told you THUS INSTILLING FALSE CONFIDENCE INTO ME
• if it turned around, Usually a speech like this is the Norm
  "Hi mate, What happened to the EUR USD"
  Broker - "Yeah…who saw that coming huh, Must have been some bad data out of London, Who knows , but hey, these things happen, Better Luck next time"
  LOL

The Truth is, These initial account Managers DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE, they really don’t

We all Perform a Function in the market, We all have a place and a job
the Job of the Account manager is to convert Demo’s to Live hence Leads to Sales
Take the money in the 90 days, BUT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WASN’T INTENTIONAL

Now. the newbie is gullable and Naive
(if you want proof of this, Go to pretty much any Binary Options You Tube video and watch how many newbies say to the Poster "this is amazing, can you please teach me how you do this"
if you want a true example (now, i realize your son is not trading Binary, but TO PROVE A POINT OF GULLABILITY)

you tube imbatrader (and research this, he has about a dozen videos you should watch)
google
PATH TO A MILLION imbatrader

the claims that by starting with (i think $1,000) he claims by doubling every day, he can earn 1 Million dollars

now… Mathematically… YES THATS TRUE
You’ll find that after around 11 - 12 days of doubling you will indeed be at over a Million dollars
so his strategy was to trade binary for 12 days approx and make a million

SEEMS LIKE A FAIR CALL…HUH
hehe
Bloody hilarious
and sad and Pathetic at the same time

My Advice… get him to watch it
MAKE SURE HE PAYS ATTENTION TO THE COMMENTS
and asks himself “How can a person actually believe that this is going to happen”

oh, Pay attention in DAY 3 i think, when he says (even though the channel was called PATH TO A MILLION)
he says to everyone
"oh sorry, i didn’t actually mean that you can make a million dollars, this is just intended to help people with trading"
hehe

but the point is
YOU CAN LEARN FROM THIS and so can your son

back to the broker now
Newbies are naive and gullable
the broker has no mercy, it’s all about money
if they need to play the game where they act like your friend… SO BE IT, they’ll play it
and if they can get a trainee WHO GENUINELY BELIEVES HE IS YOUR MATE and doesn’t understand how the thing works, That’s even better because then the customer and the account manager are both Naive

THIS IS A BUSINESS MODEL, Nothing More
and it works like a well oiled machine and historically it has proven to keep working

I’ve been doing this for 7 years
i’m now profitable consistantly and financially free as a result
but, Make no mistake… for the first 3 years approx. i was losing (this is what everyone is trying to tell your son)
i can’t remember exactly, but i think in total , over the 3 odd years, i think i burned through around ohhh. i don’t know
Maybe $10k - $20k something like that Probably not more than $20k

I agree with the others who say your son should not be using Other People’s Money at first.
he should first demonstrate ON DEMO that he can be profitable for a period of no less than 6 months

Now. he’s saying he has a proven way to do this… GREAT, then do it , What’s 6 Months gonna cost him
to put it in I.T. Terms
if were developing software that would make us Billions or Millions, Why would we not spend another 6 Months of testing and possibly debugging to make sure IT WORKS without issue

then after that, Your son should go live with his own money
he should then trade for around 6months to a year WITH HIS OWN MONEY, and if he can then do it live
THEN AND ONLY THEN, consider Other People’s money

i know his friend is prepared to lose it, but why throw it away, that’s pointless

in I.T. Terms that like a customer saying “I don’t really have a lot of money i only have $300 to buy my son a laptop so ill go to the hock shop and pick up a laptop that has 512MB Ram Pentium D CPU and 80GB Hard drive, i know its not top of the line, but HEY, AT LEAST IT’S BETTER THAN NOTHING”

well. No
it’s a waste of money to do that, if you don’t have it, You’re throwing it away without need.

same with your son
get him to learn properly and test everything, Later on, there will be more confidence from the investors and he’ll be able to start with more perhaps

Show him this post hehe
get him to understand the truth

You’re Welcome mate, i wish your boy well… ok

[anon7386331]

I’ve been doing this for 7 years
i’m now profitable consistantly and financially free as a result

Yet in other threads you say that you’re not making a living from it, and that you’re no expert at all.

You seem to say whatever you think will be best received in any given thread.

Many of us increasingly feel that members should be extremely cautious about relying on any “information” given in any of your posts at all, especially in the view of the high proportion of it which is subsequently corrected by the few remaining people here who actually know what they’re talking about. The forum isn’t flourishing, and you’re certainly not helping it.

[jackpot9786]

If you use a demo account, you say it yourself, your money is virtual. The earnings you have can not be withdrawn. Start trading in real, so you can see those profits!

[anon81929759]

@LukasVisser
Do you have a question of A POINT that relates to this subject and helping the guy and his son
or… are you on a witch hunt and have nothing better to do other than try and put someone down and discredit them

Ok, Since you want to do this let me address your points in a very BLUNT MANNER so that you won’t make this mistake again
and that YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS NOT HELPING BECAUSE YOU ARE PROMOTING CONVERSATIONS THAT GO OFF TOPIC

NOW. LET’S GET TO IT … SHALL WE
I’m going to answer your questions 1 by 1
I’m going to address all your points so that you say such stupid stuff in the future EVER AGAIN… ok

Yet in other threads you say that you’re not making a living from it,

1. Would you mind showing which thread that was on ?

2. Even if i did, WHAT DOES THAT PROVE… Nothing
   I’m an I.T. Engineer by trade ok THAT’S WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING,
   i also make a very comfortable living from forex

Does being an I.T. Engineer that does forex prove that i’m a scammer perhaps (Well, … anyone with half a brain could realize that you can be something else AND TRADE FOREX AS WELL
so… WHAT’S YOUR POINT EXACTLY, if you even have one

or… are you trying to make me out to be a scammer or a questionable person ?
if so… PROVIDE SOME CONCRETE EVIDENCE, DON’T PROVIDE CRAP LIKE THIS THAT CAN BE DISPROVEN IN A SECOND

next point…

and that you’re no expert at all.

YES… I AM NOT AN EXPERT
this point alone that you stated, [Removed for Forums Policy violation]

Mate, LISTEN CAREFULLY OK

LEX VAN DAMNE IS AN EXPERT
ANTON KRIEL IS AN EXPERT
PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE EXPERTS
PEOPLE WITH ECONOMIC DEGREES ARE EXPERTS

I AM NOT A FOREX EXPERT

Now… what’s your point here ???
so… If a person is not on the highest level, they must then be a scammer… is that it ?
this is such a [Removed for Forums Policy violation] comment

i don’t think you understand what an expert is

I’m an I.T. Expert, Not a Forex Expert, even though i am successful at forex, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.

You seem to say whatever you think will be best received in any given thread.

No… I say what i think is appropriate, GIVEN WHO I AM TALKING TO

so, If i’m talking to a dad who wants to help his son, i will speak to him with consideration for his position
If i’m speaking to a Newbie who is asking how to place a trade i will speak on a simpler level
If i’m speaking to someone like you who is intent on diminishing my reputation, I WILL SPEAK FIRMLY but Fairly, because you won’t discredit me just because you affirm OR IMPLY OR ASSUME that i’m doing something wrong

I’M NOT
I’M AN HONEST PERSON
I HELP PEOPLE,
THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE

Now, you can believe this or not, it doesn’t really matter

the point is, there doesn’t need to be Crap like this what you’re doing, on the forum

WHAT IS YOUR POINT, WHAT’S YOU GOAL HERE ANYWAY

if you think i’m doing something wrong, ASK ME
don’t be rude
I’m not going to standby and be your [Removed for Forums Policy violation] while you slander me… NO WAY MATE

and i have nothing to hide
I HAVE NEVER EVER SCAMMED ANYONE

Now moving forward

Many of us increasingly feel that members should be extremely cautious about relying on any “information” given in any of your posts

1.Why My Posts alone ?

2. ok. then, be cautious… if it makes you feel better, why do i care ? why do you even need to say it,
   if you don’t like my posts, don’t take my advice… simple

3. I agree people should be cautious… Especially in forex… TOTALLY,
   but there’s no need for rudeness mate. ok IS THAT FAIR ENOUGH

especially in the view of the high proportion of it which is subsequently corrected by the few remaining people here who actually know what they’re talking about.

Who Actually know what they are talking about huh ?? LMFAO
ok
let me ask this

1. how do you know they KNOW what they are talking about, to begin with
2. How do you know that I DON’T know what i’m talking about

Look, this is simple ok
if you think i don’t know what i’m talking about… DON’T LISTEN TO WHAT I’M SAYING… ok … simple

Now, if your point is, I’m not helping anyone
well then
HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE THANKED ME ?
If i’m not wanted… I WILL LEAVE No Problem

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR

I Really don’t give Two Tosses if you guys who want to argue , believe me or not, I really don’t.
I have done this for 7 years, I am successful with it
and if people are smart they will at least listen to what i have to say, Now… if they don’t, I don’t really care.
I’m not here to sppon feed people . ok

I’m doing what i’m doing so that some people who don’t wish to argue can benefit from this.
AND THEY HAVE

If i Leave, I don’t lose out
THE FORUM DOES, The newbies do
Now if a select few of you guys want to get all arched up and be idiots and chase me around on posts and post irrelevant crap, I’M JUST GOING TO IGNORE YOU

if there is a misunderstanding, I"m happy to work it out
I WON’T STAND FOR RUDENESS, but i’m happy to talk it out
if something thinks i’m a scammer, I’m happy to discuss it and clarify it

but what you are doing is plain rude[quote=“LukasVisser, post:38, topic:125668”]
The forum isn’t flourishing, and you’re certainly not helping it.
[/quote]

And… what
Your comment is helping it flourish is it ?

so… you are doing what ?
The Forum , a Service , by … what ???
Getting rid of me… Advicing me… what ???

MATE, SIMPLY STATED
WHAT PART OF WHAT I AM DOING IS HINDERING THE FORUM

REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE QUOTING WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE
AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO RECTIFY THEM… OK

but, don’t ever assume i’m a scammer or don’t know what i’m doing… ok
and don’t be rude

if you are going to ask a question
Ask Respectfully

Now. either Find the quotes and i’ll rectify the issue or clarify it
or
Please go away so we can get back to the topic

ok

[anon7386331]

don’t ever assume i’m a scammer

Nobody has ever made any such suggestion. On the contrary, many people seem to go to great lengths to keep stressing “We know you mean well, but …”

or don’t know what i’m doing

I don’t doubt that your own trading is wonderful, but certainly many people are saying that you don’t know what you’re doing when it comes to offering advice to your fellow-members, because so much of it, in so many different threads, seems to rest on “factual” (irony intended) statements which are actually just plain wrong.

Sorry if the truth offends.

[anon81929759]

No, the Truth does not offend

You’re confusing me
Can you explain this…

because so much of it, in so many different threads, seems to rest on “factual” (irony intended) statements which are actually just plain wrong.

Charlie has already told me that when you say “Factual” you are more or less being sarcastic.
i would tend to agree with him

now. that being the case, can you explain what you mean

as for "Plain Wrong"
can you tell me where i am being Plain Wrong
i have already asked you to show me this and you have not done so

I can’t know what you’re talking about if you don’t quote me what you are referring to .

The Truth doesn’t hurt
i can deal with it, but i need to know what you guys are talking about

as for …

, but certainly many people are saying that you don’t know what you’re doing when it comes to offering advice

Mate, i would say A FEW PEOPLE have said it
from my point of view, More people have thanked me than those that have said something about my posts in a negative light

so i’m happy to hear what people have to say
but again
you need to show it to me