Supporting my Extraordinary Son

Beginner Questions
1

Hello, I joined this site to get help with my son. He’s spent the last several years learning forex trading by using a dummy account on the trading platform provided by forex.com. He is sure he is going to make a fortune and I know we all hope he does.

He is on the threshold of trading with real money instead of a dummy account. He says he will receive $10,000 to open a trading account from a friend who has initiated the fund transfer from a trust fund. I have my doubts and concerns about this transaction but it is not what I am here to ask about.

Here is my question. Am I correct in understanding that to use this money for trading, he is going to have to deposit it with a forex broker? If he does that, or something like that, then before making any trades, how much of the deposit can he get back, in the event he changes his mind about the whole thing? How long does it take?

I know there are a lot of variables that go into this, but to give you an idea of what I want to know, I assume the act of depositing and withdrawing will incur costs and time frames. My son assumes the costs are so low as to not be a factor and it never occurred to him he might have to wait awhile to get what is left back out after the “inconsequential fees” have been deducted.

Any information you can provide will be much appreciated.

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2

From my experience most brokers would allow him to withdraw it all, Its not a deposit as such but more like a bank account to store the money.

3

Although I would advise him against using the full amount and instead practise with an amount he can afford to lose, Just so he can get used to trading with real money.
I am not a trader yet this is just my opinion and what I intend to do.

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4

I think he should start off with a smaller amount once he decides to go LIVE

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5

Maybe you should support your son rather than protect. He is after all a product of your actions.

Take an interest in him

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6

Like @_bob I think the lad has been through several years of learning and his mate has enough faith to invest in him and his ability.

Who knows how good he is ? - but 10K is not the end of the world for a young lad - My father was “protective” -in a similar way and it wasn’t until he died that I was able to give myself permission to be successful !

Hope your lad doesn’t look back at you in later life and have that same feeling !

[Edit - TRUST him ! A very wise old lady I spoke to many years ago on something my daughter was doing, that I had a problem with said to me “Say to her - I have faith in your judgement” - I pass that on with my best wishes for Both of you ! ]

7

Hello Mate, I completely understand your position
I’ve been trading for 7 years
LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS

  1. There’s a lot of BS in the industry and Scams. be aware of that, Meaning, is he with a reputable broker, because if he is not he COULD (but not necessarily WILL) Lost the entire $10k because the broker won’t pay out. IT HAPPENS

  2. as Most parents do, DO NOT FREAK OUT from the mere mention of Forex

  3. it’s good that he’s being training on Demo before he starts live

  4. BEFORE GOING LIVE, He must be able to show the following. OR HE WILL LOSE ALL HIS MONEY

  • Must have traded for around 6 months min
  • Must be able to show a min consistant profit for a period of 6 months
    if he can’t do that, TELL HIM NOT TO GO LIVE
  1. Depositing money with a reputable broker is fine, there’s no problem, it’s like a bank account or paypal if you will.
    you can take the money out if you don’t want to trade

Yes, the broker requires him to put his own money into a brokerage account and this money is used for trading.
Trading is about RISK and managing risk
he has to risk part of his funds into the trade and the brokers puts up the rest, this is called leverage

yes, if he deposits $10k then a week later decides… Nah, i’m not doing this
HE CAN PULL THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OUT
check if the broker has fees, but they usually don’t, Mine doesn’t
like i said, Like a bank account, you can just pull it all out if you like
but DO EXPECT A CALL FROM A SALESPERSON “Politely asking” Hi, is there a problem, i was just wondering why you pulled all the money out. hehe

it depends on the broker
mine usually takes up to 9 business days, sometimes sooner
THIS IS NORMAL, don’t worry about it

ASSUMING THE BROKER IS REPUTABLE of course

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9

I have to assume that you are from the U.S. if you are using FOREX.com. It is a well-regulated, reputable broker. Oanda is solid too. Be sure you advise him to stay with either one of those. You really can’t go wrong. You should know that most forex accounts are not insured by the FDIC. This is part of the reason I only keep enough in my accounts to cover my margin requirements. Something to think about.

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10

The thing about trading is use your own money. What will happen when he loses all the trust fund? Will the friend sue him?

If you trade money that you can afford to lose. There is less stress. Performance may be better. If you lose all the money. The lost money becomes something term as school fees to learn trading forex.

In the event, your son lose the trust fund. You need to guard against him Borrowing more from banks or any other means to recoup. He should learn accountability, pay off the debt. Save enough to have surplus before going live again.

Unfortunately, i’m sad to inform you that nobody come into this game of forex and start winning. You got to bust a few or many live account before becoming successful.

11

@Falstaff
hey mate, what are you talking about ?

Do you understand what i’m trying to tell him or not ?

I’m giving him advice because he is a dad who doesn’t want his son to lose $10k , obviously
he is concerned

Now this…

Was what i actually said
YOU TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT and said that i said
TELL HIM NOT TO GO LIVE

READ THE WHOLE THING MATE
You can’t just re-arrange what i say and take it out of context and then present it to the forum and say
this is what martin said… HELL NO

i’m not telling anyone to do anything
I’M GIVING COMPASSIONATE ADVICE from my experience

now as for this

No… HE SHOULDN’T BACK OFF
Clearly you are not close to being a parent… Are you ?
I understand what you’re saying… ok let there be no mistake in that

@falstaff… Mate, i don 't know how old you are or whether you have kids or not.
but a Person who has children WOULD NEVER SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID, that’s a fact… ok

NOW as for control freakery, i agree, but, HE’S NOT, HE’S SUPPORTING HIS BOY. he’s stated that.

Now seriously mate, instead of bagging they guy, and given all that “Forex is Gambling and forex is a Casino sort of talk” that parents who are not informed keep saying,
Mate, WE SHOULD APPLAUD THE GUY FOR SUPPORTING HIS SON, [comment removed due to forum policy violation], hehe

The boy DOES NEED TO BE TRUSTED
100% bloody correct… Dead on

But, the role of a parent is to GUIDE
so i’ll say that again… TO GUIDE, Not to TAKE OVER AND CONTROL but TO GUIDE and ADVISE
the Role of a child is TO LEARN and to TAKE ON ADVICE from an elder.

Mate, if they can trade together, WHY NOT ? Seriously

His Life experience and financial experience and the kids guts to want to take risks
Im sure a middle ground can be found where the dad takes more risk , the kid takes less risk and they are successful together , thus strengthening the bond between father and son

and THERE WILL BE TRUST if that happens, don’t you agree.

Mate, No one is TELLING the kid to do anything
No one is CONTROLLING him
The fact that his dad has not said “Get off the bloody computer and stop gambling” Proves trust

mate, i do computer jobs all the time, ok
i’ve seen many situations where parents tell me “How can i monitor what my child is doing”, “How can i restrict what sites they go to” etc or what programs they install etc etc
and i usually advice them it’s not the best option to do that because you fix one problem but create another.
however…

HE HAS NOT DONE THAT

I THINK A BIT OF THANKS AND APPRECIATION HIS WAY WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY.

Now as for MY WIFE : Really ?? Really Mate.??
Hey listen up ok

I"m going to say this politely and i expect you to understand this (unless you’re under the age of 16, in which case i expect immaturity) but i’m assuming you are not

I don’t involve your family here, i don’t rag on anyone elses
i don’t throw around low blows like this…

I’m gonna let this go and give you the chance to not do it again… ok
because i’m not doing anything to you

as for this

I’m going to forgive your ignorance and [comment removed due to forum policy violation] here (i actually hear this a lot)
LET ME CORRECT YOU ok

if it wasn’t for child psychology, Seriously mate
We’d grow up, all , to be bloody [comment removed due to forum policy violation], we wouldn’t know how to interact with each other.

Let me give you an example (in the nicest way possible ok… READ THIS CAREFULLY AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT)

My wife once worked in a childcare centre (long time ago), There was a little boy, i think he was like 3 or 4 years old,
anyway
THE NORMAL THING FOR A KID TO DO WHEN THEY ARE HAPPY AND WANT TO PLAY WITH ANOTHER KID IS… they smile and sometimes let out a shreak of happiness , you know what i mean… right ?

ok, so this little boy in question, used to do this
IN HIS MIND, THIS WAS THE NORMAL WAY TO START PLAYING WITH ANOTHER KID
THIS WAS HIS CHILD PSYCHOLOGY

he would smile… run up to a kid, Hug the Kid and BITE THE KID ON THE FIRETRUCKING NECK… REALLY HARD

that other kid would scream like nobody’s business and be taken to hospital

now. IMAGINE YOU WERE THE FATHER OF THE OTHER KID… right
What would you say when you picked up your kid from childcare that afternoon and he was bleeding from the neck
hehe

NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL… HUH MATE.
or maybe… now it is

MY WIFE, REFORMED THAT KID

that kid now… Runs up to another kid, Gives them a hug, and ASKS FOR PERMISSION TO PLAY
they then exchange names and become friends.

NOT REALLY VERY IMPORTANT HUH MATE
it’s just sitting on your arse and looking after kids… hey

if this kid was not reformed, he would grow with Abnormal psychology, he would end up in jail and probably end up killing someone

there are other subtle examples and extreme examples and examples of where she takes care of sick children, with disabilities , Mental illness etc
things that, (When i drop her off to work sometimes) and see the sick kids… honestly, sometimes, in really bad cases, get’s me close to crying, gets me wondering , is there are a god and how can he do this to a child.

that’s what she does mate… ok

Mate, Please… ok
(in the most polite way i can say this)

  1. Don’t put crap on my wife, i don’t put crap on your family (if you told me your wife collected garbage for a living , i wouldn’t rag on her, ok FOR THE RECORD, I Would show Mutual Respect.

  2. , Please , for the love of god, if you have no idea what you’re talking about, Please be quiet and talk about something you understand LIKE FOREX… ok

at least on that subject we can agree and disagree on points but at least i know, no matter what you say, THERE IS SOME LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND EDUCATION BEHIND YOUR COMMENTS

childcare and Child Psychology is obviously not your strong point

can we now get back to the topic of helping this guy

THANK YOU

13

most of brokers counter party to your trade either trade against you or the trade is against the other trader so live accounts
maybe has different outcomes with what your son is backtest or doing on demo , he may want to live trade to make sure he is going to make a fortune like you said but he even can start by smaller capital , i think borrowing from friend is bad idea

14

That means, he has (your son) no experience with the live market yet! So, I think before the final jump he should start his live trading journey with a cent account to test his emotions and greed in the real market!

15

I think you won’t be able to do something, if your son is an adult and those money are his. Just be near your son when he loses his first thousand. Anyway, if he loses, he will confess that trading is not a game.
Alternatively, what if he will become successful?

16

That’s a good Point. his son will get a rush of independence.

17

DO. NOT. TRADE. WITH. MONEY. THAT. YOU. CANNOT. AFFORD. TO. LOSE.

There is a HUGE discrepancy between demo trading/live trading. Much of it has to do with the emotional aspect of trading.

If your son wants to trade live, I recommend that you fit him a physical job that makes him understand the value of money. You seem like a very responsible fellow to come to the forum to ask your question, and I respect that :slight_smile:

To add, trading with 10,000 on an unleveraged account makes sense. However, with the ridiculous leverage options they provide nowadays it is very easy to trade over your tolerance in pursuit of the “big bucks” that typically end quite badly.

Sorry if this didn’t answer your question, but I had to say the really really important stuff. Trade with your own money first, son! And of course, best of luck anyhow :]]

**in short, about the withdrawals and such. Depends on your broker. If the broker is not shady you should be able to withdraw your funds 100% no problem. Commission is typically weighed in by the spread of the market he is entering. Additional fees are taken out for maintenance periodically but should be quite small compared to the overall size of the account. I recommend Oanda for starting traders. Had a great experience and active customer service. Uses a market maker however, which ticks some people off but I was OK with it.

Cheers,
John from NYC

18

I just got off the phone with Steve, my son. I mentioned the idea of trying live trades with a small amount in his account. He reminded me that he has tested his trading with a live account. He says the results were as expected. He is using the results of those live trades combined with the results of his practice trades to solicit investors who will fund his account now at a level that would take him a year or more to earn if all he had to trade was his own money.

Bob, I could not agree with you more. I changed the title of this thread in an effort to focus on support vs protection.

Roger that.

Bless you.

If I understand correctly, the key point here is “reputable broker”. A solid broker will go a long way in making sure the only thing Steve might be harmed by is his own efforts, which is how he learns, and not be harmed by something crooked.

I have picked up on the negative connotation some apply to Forex, but I don’t know anything about why some people feel that way. I have seen there are solid players, legitimate people and I gather there are some that should not be trusted. I think everything tends to be that way, I don’t know why Forex gets singled out by some.

I am just trying to help my son know about how he can lose so he can avoid the pitfalls. The actual trading is his, he has explained to me how he does it, not enough so I can do it, but enough so I can see a coherent grasp he is bringing to the market. I am beginning to believe what he is doing will work extraordinarily well

There is a background regarding my son. If I were anonymous here, I would tell you more. I’ll leave it at this, Steve is resurrecting his life and has everything he is as a human being riding on his Forex venture. When I started getting involved, my expectation was his practice trading results meant nothing and the day is coming where he is going to discover all his dreams are not on his Forex trading path. I wanted to help him discover that fact as soon as possible so he could recover from the disappointment and starting again on his life. Now, I have come to see his grounds for hope are substantial. He still is naive though and could get burned by trusting the wrong people. When I learned he was going to put money into a broker’s hands, a million red flags went up for me, imagining that brokers would collect big fees for just starting an account. Now I understand that can happen, but it won’t happen if he has a good broker. I was pleased to learn that forex.com is a good broker, since he is dealing with them. I am concerned about the particular person at forex.com who is working with Steve. He called Steve, and said he could see Steve’s trading results, he is impressed, and basically is going to make my son a star, I figure that is the crook in the house. I told Steve it would be a good idea of verify the guy really is affiliated with Forex.com. Steve says he did that.[quote=“Martin_K, post:7, topic:125668”]
it depends on the broker
mine usually takes up to 9 business days, sometimes sooner
THIS IS NORMAL, don’t worry about it
[/quote]

I passed this on to Steve and we both are grateful for your experience on this.[quote=“steveepperson, post:9, topic:125668”]
You should know that most forex accounts are not insured by the FDIC. This is part of the reason I only keep enough in my accounts to cover my margin requirements. Something to think about.
[/quote]

If I understand correctly, margin requirement applies to leverage provided by brokers. Steve is not going leverage any of his trades. He said you can lose too much money too easily that way.

I also let him know your comments about Forex.com and that is very helpful and appreciated that you passed that on, thank you.

I brought this up with Steve. He says the kid with the trust fund understand he might lose all his investment. He is investing only part of his trust fund, of course.

This is an area where I think Steve is particularly naive. His friend understanding the words of risk now is not going to be the same as his friend who is out $10k. I am warning my son that he could lose a friend and get sued. I don’t see much else to do about this now except hope the loss of the $10K never happens.

So, when my son is watching the trades stream by spots something and clicks his mouse to make a trade, the broker makes his own trades in combination with my sons’s trade?

I just discussed this with him. he has done some live trading and says the results proved out as expected. [quote=“futureslee201, post:17, topic:125668”]
trading with 10,000 on an unleveraged account makes sense.
[/quote]

That is his plan, no leverage on the account

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19

Help My Son Says He Could Use

I am a software developer, so I am looking for ways to help Steve do his trading more easily. Here is what he said would help a lot. He needs to see the data that goes into making trading charts, instead of the charts. I have not seen what he is talking about, but the idea is his trading platform includes a stream of data that shows all forex trades as they occur, or something like that. His problem is he is not seeing actual live data real time but something short of that. He is looking for a live feed coming directly out of the forex market, if there is such a thing.

What is the best source for that type of data? Where can I get it?

20

hmmm but those who believe in god not going to lose anything if there is no heaven or hell ,its a 60 years life and half of it more it goes with sleeping and what then , this why it calls believe ,have to believe most of we have from history denial not going to help.

regarding steve , i dont have any information of his system return , risk , win rate , drawdown , number of trades and cost , how many instrument and currency pairs what are they , tons of post on internet you are not the first having this questions it took traders few years reading and still not many survived from the market but at least you can try too[quote=“danallen, post:18, topic:125668”]
So, when my son is watching the trades stream by spots something and clicks his mouse to make a trade, the broker makes his own trades in combination with my sons’s trade?
[/quote]

exactly your trades doesn’t touch the market the market makers making the price , your trades might be get affected in short terms but not much in longer terms
you must know its decentralized market no clearance house where you get at least in futures and options it doesn’t have much difference to your local casino , no advantage its just works the same yes you have tp and sl level under your controls but in bigger picture nothing , there is alot of factors that influence the price not only number of transactions and knowing that make not much difference if it does by now you see too many rich forex traders around

21

Honestly, I did not know this is a decentralized market. I am going to have to see the data he is talking about. I know this data stream, whatever it is, is the whole world he looks at when making trades. He says that data more than two minutes old is irrelevant to how he trades. He watches this data stream and nothing else. He says a lot goes into spotting the opportunities and that when he spots them, the window of opportunity is open only for a few seconds. He says 19 out of 20 of his trades are winners, and that on average his fund increases by 5% per day, every day. He says no one believes him when he tells them that, but he has the trading history that proves it. When shows people those results, people want to invest, he says. He has not accepted investment until now, for a variety of reasons, but now he says he is ready. Nevermind his first trade, I am looking forward to seeing the first investment dollar reach his hands.

The data he looks at streams through the Forex.com platform. It runs only on windows and I run Mac. I am in the process of putting windows on the Mac then I will be able to see what he is looking at and what he does more precisely.

22

It sounds as though he has access to “Tick data” and is treating the betting like a “Video game”.

To do that he must have some special abilities :sunglasses:

I suggest you do not publish his system on here or anywhere else and let / encourage him to continue, as you seem to be doing.

I am pleased that you are expressing an interest in a somewhat different way from what I thought I observed in your initial post :slight_smile:

If you / he do manage to obtain access to the data, I would be interested in where to find it - especially if the cost is relatively affordable.

Very best wishes to you both :relaxed:

[EDit - yes - perhaps you can help a lot in “Covering his back” with regard to the “business side” of his venture, using your greater experience of the world ]