For what it’s worth I can reveal that the short time (14 weeks) I traded one of Tess & Co’s accounts I received 60% of banked profits net of commissions, paid weekly.
I now trade 2 accounts on behalf of other investors & receive a straight 50/50 split net of commissions. Considering the fact they’re fronting up the money, providing the platform & I’m trading in bet sizes that would ordinarily be way outside my reach - that’s a cracking deal.
I suppose it all comes down to the ongoing costs of doing business & the balance of the accounts Master Tang.
I’m sure Tess or one of the others will reply, but I know their deals involve management fee’s & standard % charges. But then the account sizes reflect that arrangement.
Firstly, I assume the amount of investment capital they’re willing to place in your pot will form part of their overall risk exposure. Obviously the bit they’re giving you will rank as very high on the speculative scale.
That being the case, I guess they’d be expecting at least similar potential returns to those being offered by the typical collective investment/stock market type trusts run by an investment firm.
Just take a look at the returns that some of the higher performing stock/equity funds are offering investors over a 3, 5 & 10 year term for their minimum outlay & that will help you determine a fair & structured split for the time, effort & commitment you’re prepared to undertake as well as the ongoing risks you’re exposing yourself & their money to.
There has to be a worthwhile time/cost/return ratio built into your numbers.
Bear in mind that ordinarily they wouldn’t have access to the types of returns you’re able to provide unless they were willing & able to put up at least a seven figure sum. And that’s also assuming the risk/return vehicle you’re operating justifies their continued capital deployment.
Large capital exposure directly into trading fund vehicles will usually attract annual management fee’s of anywhere from (typically) 1.75–2.5% + 20-30% profit cut.
So you (& they) can work out how fair a split deal really is based on what you’re able to return them on an annual basis compared to what they can expect from a traditional & typical high risk investment vehicle for the amount of money they’re prepared to stump up.
Firstly I’m probably much more of a amateur than you Master Tang.
Anyway, my thought when reading your q was that whether parents or friends, make sure you have some form of a legal agreement on paper and that would be a good place to define the account/performance management fees.
I’m sure you’ve got this fully down already, just something that popped into my head.
at some point I would like to open a second account in addition to my own to trade for a small group of family and friends. but I wasn’t planning to charge anything for it. Actually I was thinking of funding it for them because none of them can afford to invest anything. And everyone gets an equal share initially including a share for me. As the acct. grows everyone’s share increases. Sort of a forex mutual fund.
During the weekend, I was discussing about trading with my friend. We talked about which approach is better,
A top down approach (From Larger timeframe to our working template)
Bottom up approach (From our working template to larger timeframe)
I prefer a bottom up approach. But I feel it is the same. How will the professional view it? This sounds like a stupid question, but i like to hear other ppl views.
It’s like Master Tang says, you can combine both views. Try not to rule out your options when observing price action movement. It doesn’t need to be an either or scenario.
Top down will offer you a view of the wider potential reaction zones from whatever larger timeframe chart you usually glean that information from.
The bottom up approach will expose the close quarter levels that price needs to negotiate & absorb before making headway.
If you take an example of the current GBPUSD chart from a 4 hour & a 15minute perspective you can see how that dual scenario can assist in offering you an each-way view.
4 hour highlights the staged upper & lower potential reaction zones with 1.6300 to the north & 1.5870 down to 1.5650 marking out the wider 1st line levels.
It also offers a look at the most recent weekly high-low reaction points that turned the price action - so there’s your slightly wider top down view.
The 15 minute offers you a closer look at Fridays high & low (1.6180 & 1.5985) which price will have to hurdle & absorb first before making headway onto those next wider contact zones - and you’re now working from the inside out, or bottom up.
My thinking is that the focas will then move to the most recent day high or low. that means to me that I will then moniter the high and the low of yestarday first becuse the price will have to move beyond thos levels first and they replace fridays levels.
once the price moves through one of those I will focus on the next levels and so on.
That means the low of last week is now the main focas of the euro-doller and that is also the level of the low of yestarday.
and the low of yesterday is now broken down on the cable pair and the low of last week is the main focas.
i am still happy to be shorting this two pairs with sell trend and can keep my focas by loking at thes previus days high an lows first each new session.
this informaton has been a lot of good help for me. it is helping me to stay focased on the trend steps movement of the prices during each sesion.
That’s as straightforward as it gets right there.
If you manage to keep your mind & your workstation as uncluttered as that you’ll be doing yourself a huge favor.
All you then got to worry about is getting your bias correct by either cycling short on rallies or cycling long on dips, staying alert to the day (and/or) week average range availability prior to entry & focusing on your timing.
You don’t need to be a professional trader in order to adopt & engage a set of rules to play your preferred game plan.
All you need is clear & specific criteria to assist you in identifying & trading a favored market phase.
That’s probably because they have different identification criteria to you.
Forget other people.
Let them worry about their own trading aims, objectives & set ups.
You need to focus on your own criteria & game plan. That includes the identification, deployment & management of a simple, straightforward & effective strategy or model geared towards your personal style & objectives.
Well done. You’re reading the price action bias pretty impressively lately hawkmoon. Do you roll one or two of these positions over or are you cashing out at end of day?
Im sure I’m not the only one to notice in a few of your posts that you’re taking a particular directional view, & it’s obvious you’re using bits & pieces of the info from here to help cement your decisions, but how much of it are you using to confirm your bias & trade decisions?
I am doing both of thes. what I do is exit to part of my trade positon at a 60 to 70perc of its averige day range and move my stoplos of rest to my enter point.
i am studying and doing this from all the exampels of there threds informaton. Next day if the price moves more in my directon I just move my stoplos again behind swing levels on my 15 minut or my 1 hours chart and use averige day range levels also to help me with this task.
Yes for sure i am doing what the guys on here tell us all to do. i am useing the 4 hour charting to give me three months price action pictur and the 1 hours charting to give me one months actions. these are to tell me about the bias of the price.
tess and her co workers says in the other threds that if price movemant does not make a new high or a new low then watch very careful for a posibal change in the bias and watch for fundamentol talk to confirm this action.
I then use my yestardays high and low and my last weks high and low to help me plan my directon of the bias to sell rallys or buy dips using my 5 minut or 15 minut timeframe.
it is what they have said for many times on ther chartings and ther posts telling us how to trade thes large and small time frames together when the bias is bull or bear.
when i am geting knockd out of my trades with the stoplos i wait to see the directon of the price first before i enter my trade again with the bias.
That’s a great philosophy to run your strategies by.
Unless the price swings & peak-trough waves tell you otherwise, keep trading with the dominant flows until it runs out of fresh highs or lows & confirms a possible bias change.
3 weeks of eur/usd activity begins by prompting you to buy dips on the way up until it signals a possible bias change through 1.42 on Guy Fawkes night…
and once it fails to break out to fresh highs & puts in a lower top, it then prompts you to short the rallies on the way back down to current levels…
[B]you can now begin to watch out for any potential bias change down here via the same set of circumstances that signalled the prior 2 directional moves.[/B]
In order to catch a ride on the type of price action Carll highlighted the market is obviously going to have to be fuelled with high energy.
That will be influenced & driven by risk events, rumor & conjecture, elevated emotion (usually fear), extreme & stretched directional positioning etc etc.
If the markets are subdued & lethargic you’re going to witness choppy, directionless trade. Higher highs trumped with lower lows & vice versa.
Until price breaks out of confined range type behavior & prints a new high or a new low you’re either going to have stand aside, switch hats & trade something else or swap across to a range play model.
Yes that charting of yours Carll is showing nicely my coments, thank to you for that.
now this morning this euro-doller will need to go to a high + a higher low for the bias to change to long. if this fails to hapen my short trades are good and ok for more moves down.
i am to watcheing closely now at the charts of Seans from 26 October wher he shows us this importent technicals level. the prices are only a small 100-150pips from this level today.
Hi there,
Unfortunately I find the jargon in this thread a bit hard to follow much of the time but I keep trying to understand (although not as seriously as no doubt would have benefited me if I had after all this time).
I’m reading Ed Ponsi’s “Forex Playbook” and your statement caught my eye because it seems to relate to what I’m reading and I’m finally trying to inject a little more fundamental education into my overall knowledge bank. Here’s an excerpt from his book… would this be a good example of one kind of rumor & conjecture that you all would recommend to try to listen for? (this was in reference to a possible intervention)…
The wording of the MoF’s statements sounded innocent enough, as Japanese officials would often comment that they were “watching exchange rates closely.” When those words crossed the newswire, the reaction of one of the traders in the room was priceless…
“The MoF is watching exchange rates closely? So what? So am I! We are all watching exchange rates closely! Thank you, Captain Obvious!” …
We all laughed, but the mirth turned to gasps as we watched the USD/JPY pair blast higher. The words “watching exchange rates closely” may not have sounded meaningful, but to the experienced trader, they held significance. Whenever these seemingly innocuous comments hit the newswire, the USD/JPY pair would spike higher in response (see Figure 9.3).
The spikes in USD/JPY occurred because experienced Forex traders understood that the comments from Japan’s Minister of Finance were not meant to be taken literally. The MoF was sending a coded message to the markets, telling shorts to get out of the way.
He also mentions sources such as LIBOR, TED spread, OIS etc…in part for detecting “fear” and such in the markets…do any of you use thse types of tools/indicators/info in your analysis?
Hi Julie,
Yes that would be considered an example.
In the case of Yen especially, whenever prices are getting to the stage where finance officials are becoming concerned about price levels they’ll begin prepping the market via their usual channels of communication, including ringing round the dealing desks “actively checking rates” – meaning they’re broadcasting their irritation & dissatisfaction with the current level of their currency.
Most of the time it’s designed to act as a scare tactic, kind of like a stick waving exercise aimed at unsettling the aggressive speculative interest. They’re basically instilling an element of fear & uncertainty in to the market to the point where the specs aren’t totally sure whether they’re going to actually intervene (again) or not.
Kind of like a game of call my bluff - keeping the speculators on their toes.
Thing is, whenever this type of activity becomes amplified within the market the professional desks & firms are all looking at & are acutely aware of the sensitive levels & zones anyway, so they simply begin phasing out & readjusting their exposure.
I wouldn’t say we use it in our analysis as such, it’s simply just another information stream & item of relevance that we’re aware of as it zooms in & out of focus during the normal course of daily business.
It will usually surface as it ticks across the wires & during conversations with our colleagues & contacts. When it does we’ll begin chatting about levels, discuss our options & look to factor in the possible impact on any current positions.
You got your bias swap to the long side hawkmoon as it put in a higher low & higher high up through last weeks low yesterday.
There was a second chances to grab it yesterday & another this morning via pullbacks before stalling ahead of this expected 1.37 resistance.
Apparently volumes are already thinning out ahead of year end position squaring, so the exaggerated moves due to low volumes should hopefully offer ample opportunity to step on & off these price gyrations.
