The 5 minute MOMO system

I recently came over this strategy and it looks really promising.
For the strategy itself I refer you to this article:

The 5-Minute Forex “Momo” Trade

The point with this thread is to discuss and test this system as I’m sure it will need it’s tweaks and backtesting. There’s a lot of work to do so maybe we could join forces.

I am currently backtesting it on GBP/USD.

Let the testing and discussion begin. This system has a lot of potential and togheter we can make it better. Happy weekend by the way!

Count me in, I’m trading EUR/USD mostly but also look at other pairs.

Hello,

Well I’ve got some GOOD news for the both of you (that have thus far posted in this thread):

The ‘Five-Minute “Momo” Trade’ is detailed in an Investopedia e-book entitled ‘High Probability Trading Setups for the Currency Market’ and the e-book can be downloaded from here: Technical Trading Systems at TechTraderCentral - Login (yes: (free) registration is required but I guarantee no spam or anything else of the sort given that those are my OWN forums and I believe that ‘my reputation preceeds me’ here).

It’s not the best system in the book ‘not by a long shot’. There are others that are far more profitable but, unfortunately, for the ‘get rich quick fraternity’, are not suitable i.e. many far more profitable but, unfortunately, ‘patience and restraint required’ trading systems in the e-book.

And for what it’s worth: in spite of short-term trades not being my ‘thing’ Kathy Lien and Boris Schlossberg (the authors of the e-book) are indeed ‘specialists’ so believe me when I say that no ‘tweaks’ are required and will only be counterproductive. Backtesting: that, unfortunately, is ‘your own problem’ but suffice to say that it’s a very good thing that you mention this because it’s a far better concept than simply ‘jumping in’ to a system just because somebody ELSE says that it’s profitable.

Regards,

Dale.

Thx Dale, got the ebook you mentioned. It’s actually an exact copy of the strategy (or vice-versa) with the same examples as shown on the link by Matinius, so from that perspective it doesn’t add much. But for sure there’s other interesting reading material in the book!

Hi,

No problem. Enjoy. It is indeed a very good. I’m not sure which came first i.e. the Invesopdia articles (all the trading systems in the book are pulished on Investopedia) or the book (although it’s an Invetopedia e-book anyway). I personally (as you may have noted on my forums if that’s where you downloaded the book from) only the use RSI Rollercoaster and then ony on equities and commodities and it has it’s shortcomings and I’ve made a modicifation or two to ENSURE that a profitable trade doesn’t eventually, after a few days, even weeks, simply end up breaking even (that’s MORE frustrating that taking a loss for me)!!! LOL!!! The other one that I believe is quite good that ‘Memory of Price’ system and I’ll probably backtest it (paper-trade it) at some point when I done with detailing the systems already presented on those forums. I must say that I do very much like the introduction to this book though i.e. some very good pointers and information. It looks like they (Lien / Schlossberg) conentrate a lot on and use risk / money management to their advantage. As a fine example the only reason that the RSI Rollercoaster IS profitable is because of the risk / money management rules that they apply given that, as they quite correctly say, it’s a low probability trading system, but I’ve spent a long time working around that i.e. nothing ‘spectacular’ excepting that I don’t let that second half of the trade, after moving my stop to breakeven, just run in the HOPE that RSI will eventually reach it’s opposite limit i.e. 30 or 70 depending on whether you’re short or long because, inevitably, especially if your trade is against a strong trend, it never gets there and the trade ends up breaking even which, as I note, drives me insane, so I simply move my stop to the low or high that has caused RSI to cross over 50 and leave it there so that if RSI turns up or down again over 50 before reaching it’s opposite limit I’ve at least made SOMETHING and, of course, at best case, I don’t get stopped out until it reaches it’s opposite limit in which case, obviously, and as per the system, I’d stop and reverse. It took me years to realise that almost ALL trades show a profit at some point but it’s the not exiting in time or not protecing those profits that makes the difference between success and failure. OK: with some systems (such as most of thost presented on my forums) it’s not possible to lock in or protect profits without interfering with the actual operation of the system it self and that of course undermines the system (and proftiably of the system) totally (a fine example being my ‘main’ trading sytem i.e. Wilder’s Swing Index System).

But yes: a lot can le learned from this particuar e-book. The other one over there (which I prefer really) is the ‘Street Smarts’ one (Connors / Raschke). Some excellent trading system there too and they’re more my ‘style’ given that most of them either use channels in one form or another or make use of Wilder’s indicators and me, of course, being a ‘Wilder devotee’, am therefore biased I guess. Of course then for me: ‘top of the pops’ is Wilder’s book but it’s not everybody’s ‘cup of tea’ although I’ll say this: if anybody uses any of Wilder’s indicators BEFORE reading that book you’re already compromising yourself i.e every single website I’ve ever come across only gives you a sort of ‘brief synopsis’ (at best) on the use of, say, RSI, ADX, Parabolic SAR, etc. and in some cases the information is misleading and in some other cases the information is just ‘plain wrong’. As a matter of fact, and as a very fine example, would you belive that the actual calculation of ADX as supplied standard with MetaTrader is, and always has been, wrong i.e. the major omission is the fact that ADX is not smoothed as per Wilder’s smoothing method and believe me this either whipsaws you (depending on which trading system you’re using but includes ADX) or, if using ADX to indicate the presence or absence of a trend and the strenght thereof, will get you ‘in’ and ‘out’ too early. I’ve had Wilders book (it was my first) for at least about five years now and even now, sometimes, when I refer to it for something now and then, I find something else that I’ve ‘missed’ for some reason because it’s not an ‘easy read’ i.e. every sentence written ‘counts’ and there’s very little ‘fluff’ of any kind!!! LOL!!!

Anyway: good trading (I never say ‘good luck’ because if you’re TRADING then ‘luck’ should play no part)!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

I’m not sure to which strategy you refer.

The thread starter was talking about the ‘Five-Minute “Momo” Trade’ so there’s your answer i.e. it’s good for the 5-minute timeframe only. If you’re talking about the RSI Rollercoaster (which is what I was talking about above) then you’re wasting your time on pretty much any timeframe shorter than the four-hour timeframe (even although examples are given in the e-book for trades on the 1-hour timeframe there is a warning given).

Regards,

Dale.

Hi again!
Had a look at the Street Smart book and found it very interesting. But I really had a har time understanding Wilder. Really complicated writing and his strategy explanations get lost in a lot of calculations… Any other place or book where to find a simplified explanation of Wilder’s system?
By the way, I’ve corrected the ADX in MT4 and it should now calculate according to Wilder’s criteria.
What is in your opinion the ideal ADX and ADXR levels? There seem to be contrasting opinions that vary between 20 and 30.
Thanks again for your help! :slight_smile:

Hello,

Well first I have to say I appreciate your interest in Wilder. But yes: it’s not an easy read by any means (no ‘fluff’). Unfortunately (fortunately???) those forums are the only place where you’re going to get ‘tips and tricks’ on Wilder’s work (I’ve based my entire trading career on that book and know those systems and their nuances and shortcomings ‘pretty darn well’ even if I have to say so myself). Anyway the point is (and if I may be so bold as to make this comment): since this thread has started, and my subsequent posting a download link to the Lien / Schlossberg book, the membership of those forums has jumped in ‘leaps and bounds’. Now I know that in all probability all new members from here have only signed up to download the book(s). While I thank you for this (because obviously it’s pushing my membership numbers up somewhat) do not simply discount the systems and the discussions going on over there. Yes: the reason for my starting those forums was mainly because there’s no real place for me here being an equities and commodities only (and only SOMETIMES a FOREX) trader but if you want trading systems that work ‘from the get go’ then take a look there from time to time. I’ve given fine in-depth explanations of certain of the systems and their shortcomings and one or two small changes that I’ve found increase profatibility and reduce whipsaws. Obviously I try to promote the site (and broker of course which I’m bound by certain rules here against doing) but that’s my sole purpose here i.e. I still post here to for try to assist FOREX traders too.

The above being said: there are two threads on these very forums the subject of which are Wilder’s systems. The one is called something like ‘New Concepts In Technical Trading Systems’ and the other is called ‘Parabolic SAR - that’s all!!!’. At one stage both threads held the record of being the most viewed and read forums BUT BEWARE: in hindsight there’s some very good information and some very bad information (a lot of us spent a lot of time on those systems back then but were way too inexperienced as traders at the time to fullt comprehend them). I took a bit of a ‘sabbatical’ (for want of a better word) and did nothing other than test, tweak, question, and paper-trade those same systems and they now ‘work like a charm’. I guess one other reason for my forums is to present the systems themselves (AGAIN) but without all the ‘fluff’

Regarindg ADX and ADXR: there’s just one of the little ‘issues’ that I’ve found difficult to make sense of (even now). In that chapter Wilder seems to alternate between talking about ADX and ADXR and their key levels and it’s confusing. I don’t have the answer other than to tell you that I largely ignore ADXR and just use ADX when required. The reason being is that ADXR is simply ANOTHER moving everage of ADX which is ALREADY a moving average so it reacts a LOT slower. I think it depend on which systems you’re using it with. ADXR reacts WAY slower than ADX which is what you want when trading really long term so as not to get whipsawed and stay in the trade as long as possible (as would be the case with Wilder’s Volatility System). But, you’ll note, that some of the systems in ‘Street Smarts’ use only ADX with a key level (in at least one of the systems, the name of which escapes me right now) of 30 and FALLLING (I THINK they jokingly refer to the system as the ‘Holy Grail’ or something like that i.e. it’s the system with the 20-day / 20-period EMA and ADX).

And well done on correcting ADX in MetaTrader 4. As you have no doubt figured: it was nothing difficult to do but believe me it does make a difference. Put another way: as an experiment REMOVE Wilder’s smoothing from RSI in MetaTrader 4 and see what you get (more false signals and whipsaws than you’ll know what to do with)!!! LOL!!!

Of course: I’m ‘Wilder biased’ but of the other two books ‘Street Smarts’ is by far my favourite and I’d say the best of the other two (it should be at $178)!!! LOL!!! But of course again I’m biased i.e. the systems in ‘Street Smarts’ are developed for equities and commodities trading and both Connors and Raschke are equities and commodities traders (and Connors also has a book on ETF trading which is a great book except that Connors does not believe in trading with stops and when approached on this subject he has been less than forthcoming with information but I’m working on trying to find a reasonable method of applying stops to those systems without interfering TOO much with the inner workings of the systems themselves. Of COURSE: most, if not all of the systems in Connors’ ETF trading book are based on RSI)!!! LOL!!!

Anwway: all I’m saying is that I’m ‘active’ on BOTH forums and don’t believe that I am (nor want to be) in ‘competition’ with BabyPips (especially given that I’ve been posting here for a good may years). All I’m trying to do over there is ‘get straight to it’ without all the ‘fluff’. I’ve made some BIG mistakes over the years and the purpose of my other forums is simply to present those systems that I NOW trade on a daily basis (on equities and commodities) and that work for me. If nothing else: they’re a good base for learning I believe without trying to obtain a ‘doctorate’ in the business of trading. So if and when you have the time and remember: ‘mosey on over there’ sometimes and just have a look around i.e. I’m sure you’ll find something useful from time to time.

Regards,

Dale.

Hi again!
I wanna thank you Dale for being so informative and helpful. My interest in your strategies has only grown after reading your posts. I’ll study these strategies and partecipate actively in your forums. If you have the time and will, maybe you could help me in the complicated process of understanding Wilder when needed since, as stated before, they’re not an easy reading. I’ll start by having a torough read through your forum. Maybe a dumb question:
You stated that these strategies are mainly suited for commodities. Do you mean only futures or are they suitable also for commodity CFDs? I guess the answer is yes, but I just want to make sure.
Anyway, see you over there! Thanks again for all the info! :slight_smile:

By the way, if anyone is interested in the corrected ADX indicator PM and I’ll make sure you’ll get it. I’m having a hard time uploading it here on this thread. Let me know! :slight_smile:

Hi Martinius,

First: it’s only a pleasure. I enjoy sharing the little bit that I’ve learned with others that are serious about this business and have the same, let’s call it ‘passion’, for it as I do. So that being said: I’ll always have the time. I’ve been VERY busy today FINALLY detailing the Swing Index System and have made the demo indicator package available for download. I just need to complete one or two screens explaining the inputs and then everyone should be ‘good to go’ with it. Put it this way: with reading the book and going through the threads you’ll understand very quickly why the threads, or at least SOME type of external input, is required i.e. like most other books there are ‘cherry picked’ examples (which I must admit I never expected from Wilder and wasn’t even aware until I REALLY sat down with those systems and ‘worked’ them).

Equities, commodities, FOREX!!! The ‘Dale against everyone else debate’!!! LOL!!! Well first: I actually AM referring to CFDs on equities and commodities and not the actual equities and commodities themselves (although that would be ideal I guess but there should be no difference in performance and, of course, the costs of trading the actual equities and commodities is, in most cases, a LOT higher). So yes: whenever I refer to equities and commodities I’m actually referring to CFDs.

As far as them being ‘suited’ for commodities: I base this purely on my own BAD experiences with FOREX trading (with the same trading systems) and on the fact that Wilder was a commodities ONLY trader (well: Gold and Silver too). I have various other ‘technical reasons’ for my preferring equities and commodities (CFDs) but I’ve detailed them here before and, I’m told, people don’t want to hear about them anymore (not around these parts anyway) but I’ve given a sort of ‘rough description’ on those forums sometime earlier today oddly enough for someone. Put it this way: OTHER than my own personal issues with FOREX there’s very few CONCEIVABLE reasons why the same systems should NOT work on FOREX as well (although I’d choose the pairs to trade very carefully and in most cases they would NOT be the major pairs). I MYSELF am not prepared to go down that road again (testing FOREX pairs) but let’s face it: equities and commodities is NOT everybody’s ‘cup of tea’ either (although STILL I’ll never understand why but have given up trying to understand).

The other trading systems presented there (with the exception of the work by Lien / Schlossberg) are also developed by equities and commodities traders (I think I may have mentioned this before) i.e. there are very few examples of FOREX trades etc. and, I don’t know, I could be wrong, but this just ‘says something to me’.

And that’s jolly decent of you offering your ‘corrected’ ADX indicator to everyone. That’s what this and all the other forums on the Internet are SUPPOSED to be for i.e. helping each other out!!!

Regards,

Dale.

Thanks again Dale!
For the sake of remaining in tune with the beginning of this trade I will start testing the 5 Minutes MOMO trade and post some daily results. I plan to start this soon after I’m back from a short trip to New York. Feel free to test and post results yourselves too (yeah, both the good and the bad ones). See ya soon!

Hello.

You’re lucky: New York!!!

Be sure to say hello to my friend:


Regards,

Dale.

Ha! Ha! In fact this is one of the landmarks on my priority list while I’m there! I’ll make sure he gets your salutes! : )

Question for Dale have you tried the Pure fade and Turn To Trend methods, been looking for a way to cut out over trading and they seem to suit me a bit better , any experience of these.
cheers

mark