The Adam Theory of Markets by J. Welles Wilder Jnr

Hello.

Sometimes Wilder’s Swing Index System ‘holds up’ and sometimes it doesn’t!!! LOL!!!

I’ve tried the ‘flipping in my head’ method and that doesn’t work for me I’m afraid.

What I’m beginning to see though is this (but please do note that it’s very early days yet so this opinion of mine could very well change):

I don’t think that Adam is going to solve the problem that I intended to solve with it (which was, on a weekly basis, to give me the most PROBABLE direction that an instrument would trade in for that coming week). My plan was to say: ‘alright: if Adam says that the Dow will close lower for the coming week I’d then only take short trades using any one of my trading systems, especially Wilder’s Swing Index System, in an effort to eliminate whipsaws’. The problem (and as ironic as this may be): Wilder’s Swing Index System gives me the same signals. The only difference being that it will get me in long and short (stopping and reversing) during the moves that Adam predicts.

What I’m saying really is that IF there is merit to Adam then one must TRADE ONLY Adam and forget about the rest. According to the DAILY second reflection chart for EUR/USD I would have, last night already, just after the close of the daily bar, been required to move my stop to above the next projected SIGNIFICANT HIGH POINT (which would, at this point, effectively have been locking in profit). I would have used +100 pips above that projected SIGNIFICANT HIGH POINT. The only reason I would have used a value of +100 pips is simply because using Wilder’s logic he was placing stops at +100 cents (commodities pricing) above these points (obviously the opposite would apply for short trades).

Note I’m talking ‘past tense’ above i.e. making just over 100% out of a BROKER’S ‘no deposit $20 bonus’ in four days is good enough for me!!! Now let’s see if I can withdraw it!!! LOL!!!

Having spent many years making a veritable study of Wilder’s work: all of his trading systems are designed to capture L-O-N-G term trend moves. There are two exceptions but they’re not the best trading systems for short term trading I’ve ever come across to be honest (then again: I’ve never really traded either of them long enough to make that as a statement of fact).

At this early stage I’d have to say that there IS merit to Adam but the REASON is the fact that your trade has SOOO much room to move over a SUCH a long period that I’m figuring it would be pretty difficult to be wrong on the trade. Does that make sense??? What I’m saying really: if you’re looking for ‘trading action’ then this SURE IS NOT the system for you (not on the daily and longer timeframes anyway)!!! LOL!!!

Alright: Wilder DOES say that Adam should be timeframe INDEPENDENT. So a good test would be for some kind soul to write an Adam Indicator for all of us right??? LOL!!! There are only two ‘floating around the Internet’ (for MetaTrader 4 anyway) and neither are correct. Not the two that I found (or should I say were given by somebody) anyway. I cannot do it in Delta Trading because one cannot draw ‘future bars’ in Delta Trading. And ‘solving Adam’ manually (as I’m doing) on, let’s say, an hourly basis just ain’t gonna happen!!! LOL!!! Put it this way: it then REALLY WOULD be easier to use graph paper and acetate!!! LOL!!!

But hey: I’m happy and willing to give Adam (Wilder) the benefit of the doubt for a good while for the reasons I’ve mentioned either on this thread or in this post (I forget which): 301 Moved Permanently

The above being said I’ve got a GOOD test for Adam. BANK OF AMERICA!!! LOL!!! It’s trading at, oh, around, $5.27 the last time I looked (yesterday). If I ‘solve Adam’ for BAC and Adam is correct: BAC should be out of business in a week or two or three because according to the second reflection chart the stock would have a negative price (at a ‘rough guess’ anyway given that I don’t have the prices on the Y-Axis showing). Let me tell you THIS though: if BAC becomes the target of a M&A deal in the very near future and price shoots up (or it files for Chapter 11) well, then, you cannot doubt Adam then. THAT is FOR SURE!!! LOL!!!

But the above HAS given me SOMETHING to think about (well should I say WILDER has given me something to think about in this book). I’ve been watching BAC simply because it’s ‘cheap’. Remember Wilder’s words??? And I’ve been thinking about this ‘ad infinitum’ since a) Warren Buffet bought a few billion USD worth of the stock and b) since finding ‘The Adam Theory of Markets’ (not so much the ‘Adam part’ but Wilder’s ‘words of wisdom’ in the book). Think about this: I, like most other idiots, would be looking at BAC and saying ‘it’s cheap’ right??? I mean it’s a big bank, it’s an iconic American bank, ‘what could go wrong’??? Right??? What’s more: why would ANYBODY like Warren Buffet buy that stock??? I mean (and as far as I can tell): the man has TEAMS of analysts that look into stuff like this and stock valuations right??? Here’s the ‘catch’: Warren Buffet bought Class A stock (or Preferential stock or whatever the correct term is) right??? All his analysts value BAC stock at around $8.00. So it’s trading ‘under book’ right??? In other words (which is what they calculated): if BAC closed their doors over the weekend, collected all funds owing to them, settled all of their debt, and sold off all of their assets then Warren Buffet gets his $5.00 - $8.00 move ANYWAY (I’m not 100% sure at what price he bought the stock at but it was around $5.00). COMMON stock holders (which EFFECTIVELY would be somebody like me), however, would get NOTHING!!! NADA!!! Add Adam to this??? Let’s see what happens in the coming weeks. There’s no announcements (about BAC). There’s no rumours (about BAC). Just Adam. There is only ONE other possibility and that is that BAC pulls the same ‘move’ as Citi i.e. does a ‘reverse share swap’ so that the stock becomes worth $50 again and not $5 (which is of help to NO trader and makes no difference to an investor).

While the above may APPEAR to be ‘off topic’. Think nicely about my insights. The point is that if there is ANYTHING to Adam then SOMETHING is going to happen with BAC in the coming weeks. Now THAT’S quite a good test wouldn’t you say??? LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

See Dale? I told you it’s going south til fifty cent, lol. I mean BoA. Then if Adam is right, I am too! :smiley:

Very funny!!! LOL!!!

But yes: I’ll then HAVE NO OPTION but to admit that you were right!!! LOL!!!

Like I said: let’s see!!! Put it this way: if I’m right, and Adam is right, and you’re right, and Wilder is right, then we’re gonna be FAMOUS because of my above post!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

You’re not going to believe this but it’s just a TAD ‘uncanny’.

No sooner had I posted the above ‘retort’ to Mr. Gecko but one of the ratings agencies has just downgraded a whole bunch of banks INCLUDING BAC and Citi!!! LOL!!! (According to Bloomberg TV Breaking News). Note the date and timestamp of my posts!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

Maybe those agencies read our comments and do their research based on it?! LOL! :smiley:

No, seriously now (I try my best, lol), I think buying ANYTHING in the financial engineering industry is like shorting gold and shorting gold in the long or mid term is imho a recipe for disaster. There is too much debt in the world and one way or another this debt bubble [B][U]must[/U][/B] burst. Right now they try to make more debt to solve the debt issue, but I guess we both are on the same page that this can’t work for long. Anybody must pay the invoice for the lunch and it’s as ever the majority of small investors. And, in this case, financial instituts will pay for it as well. Some may left the battlefield untouched or even better than before, but I guess most big instituts will sooner or later learn some lessons of reality. You can’t til the end of all days pump debt into a pyramid system what is already weak, as we have seen already in 2008 and with the debt crisis in the ez, which is just a little more public, but it happens all over the world.

So, if you invest money in a bank you are investing into the debt bubble what is about to burst. That’s like in the end of the dot com bubble where people grow rich over night and most got even poorer than before at the next day. BoA is already a fallen star and I know enough fallen stars which never ever made it back. Pan American Airlines for example. An airline from 30 years ago where you could say the same as BoA: Too big to fail. The airline industry was growing, so there was still no sign of weakness. Well, we all know what happened. And this is just ONE example out of hundreds. You see the BoA branches everywhere now, I know, but that can change quick. Plus then the stock value is anyways another story. So yes, you could bet on a financial injection from Mr. Helikopter and Sons, but I wouldn’t bet that BoA survives over the long haul. And, going til 50 bucks again would mean surviving over the long haul.

Well put it this way:

I’m figuring that these ratings agencies know AS much or AS little as you, me, Adam, and Wilder ANYWAY!!! LOL!!! If memory serves me correctly (and in this case it does): are they not the ones that got us all into this ‘sh*t’ in the first place???

Come to think of it: if they downgraded those banks based on my post then it’s probably the best research and most reliable information that they’ve had at their fingertips for ages!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

Even better. As dumb as I am, I am sure they know less than what you or I have in our smallest finger, lol. Or how does it come they have millions of dollar for research, yet fail every now and then to recognize a failure before it burns billions? Which of them downgraded Lehman before it was obvious? And, the list goes on and is very long, lol. :smiley:

Tho I have no idea how consistently profitable a Adam strat would be, I am sure the chance is higher to make money with that than with any ratings from agencies, lol.

Okay, back to business. Got your pm and have to reply and then some to do. Have a great evening, Dale! :slight_smile:

And here I was saying (in an earlier post) that there NO rumours and NO headlines for BAC!!! LOL!!! Note the dates and times (in the attached graphic)!!!

The info comes from here:

https://www.mbtsoftware.com/Community/finance/modal/BAC.aspx

The point is that there does seem to be quite a bit of ‘activity’ going on ‘behind the scenes’ right now insofar as BAC is concerned.

C’mon Adam: ‘show us what you’ve got’!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.


Oh well.

‘Keeping to my word’: attached is Adam ‘solved’ for EUR/USD for the coming weeks based on Friday’s close.

If there is anything to Adam: then ‘watch out below’ is all I can say. Put it this way: had I started ‘solving’ Adam around four weeks ago I’d have been short four weeks ago already (alright well not ME but you get what I’m saying). As of Friday’s close that would have been a LOT of pips!!! LOL!!!

And with my EXTREMELY limited understanding of fundamentals: as of RIGHT NOW Adam seems to paint the ‘right’ picture if you ask me. All you have to do is go and read all the EU related news on Bloomberg.com and you’ll see what I mean.

Sorry: the chart is ‘WinZipped’ i.e. I’ve increased the size of the graphics file so as to show more history and forward price projection (reflection) so it’s too big to upload as an image.

Regards,

Dale.

eurusdweekend16122011.zip (37.6 KB)

Well: for want of something better to do I decided to ‘solve’ Adam on the DAILY EUR/USD chart using 15/12/2011 as the starting date (last Thursday). Why that date??? Because that was the first day that price moved against (‘reacted’) to my (now theoretical) short trade.

As is the case with the WEEKLY chart (attached to my previous post): I’ve had to ‘WinZip’ the file for the same reasons given.

Even on the DAILY chart and in spite of the ‘reaction’ it sure still looks like ‘watch out below’.

One thing interesting to note (interesting to me anyway): doing the same Adam ‘analysis’ for the Dow there is a ‘predicted’ divergence between EUR/USD and the Dow. Adam indicates that the Dow will drop further but only by a small amount and then will ‘take off upward’ in the coming days and weeks. Normally: EUR/USD and the Dow will move in tandem (roughly). But Adam ‘predicts’ a MAJOR divergence. A ‘portent’ of things to come in Europe???

Looking at a bigger picture (bearing in mind my limited, if any, understanding of fundamentals): the USA is not QUITE in the ‘bad shape’, according to the most recent ‘numbers’, that even THEY think they’re in. The same cannot be said for Europe. Just ‘thinking aloud’ is all.

Oh well and as noted: ‘time will tell’ insofar as ‘proving’ Adam is concerned.

I’ll say this though: even looking at the daily charts one would have gone short somewhere between 27/10/2011 and 31/10/2011 when price was well above 1.4100 or so with a pretty tight stop (well ‘tight’ in the ‘Wilder World’ could be 100 or 200 pips of course). Thus far, and from those dates, Adam has been ‘spot on’ insofar as direction is concerned and right now you’d be looking at over +1 000 pips profit on the trade or thereabouts in, what, a month and a half???

Note: I’m not trying to ‘sell’ Adam here to anybody. But as noted: why should I doubt THIS ‘theory’ of Wilder’s (without at least giving it a ‘fighting chance’) when my entire trading career has been based on his technical trading systems which are indeed profitable (just so long as you manage risk and ‘stick to the general rules of trading’ which has been my downfall on occasion and not the fault of Wilder’s technical trading systems)???

Oh well: enjoy (those that are interested).

Regards,

Dale.

Edit:

Please note that I did in fact ‘solve’ Adam on 15/12/2011 (I just saw that post of mine and was getting myself confused for a minute). But THOSE charts were ‘solved’ BEFORE the close on 15/12/2011 i.e. they were ‘solved’ early morning of 15/12/2011 and at that stage price was still moving in favour of my (then REAL) short trade. On Friday (16/12/2011) price continued to move slightly against my (then CLOSED) short trade. ‘Uncannily’: it’s made very little to no difference between the ‘predictions’. Go figure.

eurusddaily15122011.zip (36.5 KB)

Hello there! Well, you say that you need to get a life, but as a fellow-forex-junkie, I appreciate someone who puts so much effort into their threads :slight_smile: Makes it more interesting when you have charts and links to support your arguments, lol…ah well, good luck to you and one thing is for certain, the future would appear to be quite interesting (and scary) for Europe and perhaps the rest of the world as well. As a US citizen, I hope what you say is true that we are in better shape than we appear to be! What is exciting now, may not be so much fun when it actually comes to pass.

Hello and nice to ‘meet’ you.

And thank YOU for your comments. Much appreciated and I mean that most sincerely.

Well: I can only go by what I see / hear on Bloomberg TV everyday ALL day. As I noted: fundamentals, news, and that type of stuff just ain’t for me (or should I say I’d never make any money trading on fundamentals or trading the news that’s for sure). But every time there is a news data release from the USA I watch and listen and TRY to make sense of it. And all the traders and analysts (well: for what the ‘analysts’ are worth anyway) seem to agree that there is a very slow but steady ‘improving trend’ (for want of a better phrase) in the numbers coming from the USA. I’m afraid the same cannot be said for Europe. Just this weekend alone (odd how it’s always AFTER the close of trading it it not): there have been credit downgrades for some countries in the EU or some have been put on ‘negative watch’. That type of thing. Now while I don’t understand fundamentals I’m at least intelligent enough to know this type of stuff CANNOT be GOOD!!! LOL!!!

And, well, I’m just ‘testing Adam’ here really. But it sure would be interesting to see what would happen if the Dow, S&P 500, and the NASDAQ ‘diverged violently’ from the EURO!!! Then you gotta know that ‘something ain’t quite right’. Or MAYBE: then you gotta know that FINALLY things are ‘getting back to normal’ in a sense???

I’m afraid (and this may make me unpopular) but I’ll never forget the interviews with Jim Rogers back in 2008 and 2009 when he said ‘let them fail’ (all the ‘too big to fail’ entities). While it probably would have resulted in some misery at the time (probably a LOT of misery): his ‘take’ was that the markets would sort of ‘clean themselves out’ and we could start building on a solid foundation again. But look what’s happened???

Regards,

Dale.

Just to clarify something (for anyone that may be following this thread):

I never thought to look before posting the above yesterday but EUR/USD has been moving INVERSELY to the Dow ANYWAY for the most part (in the past few weeks). So it IS POSSIBLE. What’s more: it at very least means that Adam is not ‘spewing forth impossibilities’ if that makes any sense.

My apologies for ‘not doing my homework’ (but then ordinarily I’d not be watching EUR/USD ANYWAY until now that is).

Regards,

Dale.

Well,

BAC just hit $5!!!

Regards,

Dale.

What? Oh. Okay, then I can get back to sleep. Please wake me up if it’s trading at 50 cent. LOL!

Sry, I couldn’t resist Dale. I hope you had a great Monday so far. Eurusd just sitting in it’s holiday hole, lol. Even my genderless bot is drinking beer and eating pop corn while getting amused with those other 2 thread, lol. :smiley:

Why does this please you so much??? LOL!!!

Hey: at least I didn’t ‘buy because it looks cheap’ (it was CLOSE though)!!! LOL!!! I ‘owe’ you and Wilder one!!! LOL!!!

It’d be an absolute shame to see another of these ‘icons’ ‘go’. Bank of America, CitiGroup, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, to name but a few.

Actually THERE’S an idea: how about I ‘solve’ Adam for all of the aforementioned??? Now THAT could be interesting ESPECIALLY if the charts all ‘concur’!!!

EUR/USD: just short it, place your stop 1 000 pips away, and find something else to do for the next few weeks!!! LOL!!! Well: that’s according to Adam anyway. LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

It’s just because I mentioned those 50 cents and now watching it droop to that level would be the reason I could say I was right. My EGO! LOL! :smiley:

Well THIS should make your day Mr. Gecko:

BAC: $4.95!!!

And it gets worse: fund managers cannot buy a stock to include it in their fund if a (the) stock is trading below $5!!! So just WATCH this (Adam) space!!! Let’s run a little ‘side bet’ here. I’m betting that there’s a ‘reverse share swap’ on the cards. $100 Bucks bet???

Regards,

Dale.

I am poor and all what’s left is in my fx account, so I can’t bet Dale, lol. That’s the real reason I watch BAC droop to 50 cent. Then I can sell my last shirt to maybe buy some shares. :smiley:

Bucks, I am so with you. My bots are soaking up some holiday R&R as well. It’s enough to cope with money centre madness as everyone squares the year end let alone the Deutsche-Franco tango around the euro deficit.

Happy hols all.