The Aristotelian Alligator: A System That Makes Sense

Hey all, I have decided to post this system because so far in the preliminary testing it has shown much promise. Please be advised that this is not a system authored by myself, I have graciously received it from someone else and I am sorry to say I am not sure who came up with it.
Additional things to keep in mind: I will attach a word document (containing the system in a more orderly way) and a zipped excel sheet. The excel sheet is vital to the system; in actuality it is THE indicator so once you read through the system, make sure to grab the excel sheet ;). It is extremely recommended that if at all possible you view the word document. While its the same info as below, its much easier to view and comprehend. Plus the charts don’t suck as my attachments do (sorry).
Last note: I do hope you forgive my blatant plagiarism that is about to come. I do seek to share this with everyone, but I cannot give credit where it is due unfortunately do to a lack of information about the author.
ADDITION: I have attached the original word doc containing the system and the excel sheet. Also in the system which I have also copy/pasted below, I have marked the corresponding charts and tables and three asterisks (*) then the right table/chart. Since there is a maximum of five attachments, the rest of the charts and tables will be in my replies that follow this. Sorry for the inconvenience!

[B][I]AND NOW YOUR FEATURE PRESENTATION[/I][/B]

"This trading system is built on the concept of applying a weighting to the individual currencies under consideration and trading a pair that contains a very strong currency against a very weak currency. In this way, we are more likely to take advantage of a strong move in a predictable direction. I use the eight major currencies that are traded on the forex market: USD, GBP, EUR, JPY, CHF, CAD, AUD, and NZD.

In weighting the currencies, I use the Alligator indicator developed by Bill Williams. This consists of three moving averages. Williams has labeled them the Jaws, Teeth, and Lips. They are all Smoothed Moving Averages and based on the midpoint between the high and low of the price bar. The Jaws is a 13 bar MA shifted 8 bars to the right. The Teeth is an 8 bar MA shifted 5 bars to the right. And the Lips is a 5 bar MA shifted 3 bars to the right. Here is an illustration of the three moving averages that comprise the Alligator indicator. The blue line is the Jaws, the red line is the Teeth, and the green line is the Lips. The pair is the CADJPY on a one hour chart.***See Chart 1***.

In working with a single moving average, if the pair crosses from below the MA to above it, this is an indication that the first currency of the pair, the one on the left, has strengthened relative to the second currency of the pair, the one on the right. In using three moving averages, I derive a four point weighting depending on where the currency pair closes relative to the MAs. If the pair closes below all three MAs, the first currency has a value of 0 and the second currency has a value of 3. The illustration below shows bars labeled “0” that have closed below all the Alligator lines. ***See Chart 2***.

The next bar after this series of zeros has closed above one line and below two lines. Hence, it has a value of 1 for the first currency, the CAD, and a value of 2 for the second currency, the JPY. It is labeled with a “1” above the arrow on the chart below.SEE CHART 3.

An example of a value of 2 comes from earlier in this series. Note the candle labeled “2” above the arrow has closed above 2 lines and below one line. This means the first currency, the CAD, has a value of 2 and the second currency, the JPY, has a value of 1. It does not matter what order the Alligator lines are in.SEE CHART 4.

When the bar closes above all the lines, the first currency has a value of 3 and the second currency has a value of 0, as is the case in the string of candles that have closed above the Alligator lines below. These are labeled 3 in the chart below.SEE CHART 5.

By adding the numbers for each currency from all the pairs, we have a measure of the overall strength or weakness of that currency with respect to the others in the array. For the 8 major currencies there are 28 possible pairings. However, most forex brokers have fewer than all 28 pairs so one must adjust the relative calculations according to the number of pairs supported by the broker.

As of this writing, Windsor Direct has 27 of the 28 possible pairs. The only one it omits is the EURNZD.

I have designed a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet for tallying the currency strengths with this system. The formulas in the cells are quite simple.
In the lower part of the spreadsheet one enters the value for the first currency of each pair depending on whether the pair has closed below all lines, above 1, above 2, or above all 3. One enters these values in the cells of column G in rows 19 through 45. Then the formula in column H will calculate the value for the second currency of the pair. When one is finished, the totals and percentages will show in columns H and I, respectively, for rows 10 through 17.

The values in this first illustration are for May 26, 2009 at time 17:00 on the chart. This coincides with the first break and close above the lines for the CADJPY as shown by the arrow in the next graph below.SEE TABLE 1 AND CHART 6.

The Aristotelian Alligator Forex Trading System requires that one currency must be at an extreme level of strength or weakness, i.e. either 0% or 100%. If one of the constituent currencies of the pair is 0%, the other must be at 60% or greater. If one of the currencies is at 100%, the other must be at 40% or less. And we have a signal for entering a trade the first time these levels are reached after the currency pair has made a cross completely across the Alligator lines. Hence, they must have closed completely below and crossed the lines to close completely above as in this case. Or they must have closed completely above the lines and crossed to close completely below the lines.

In the present case, we have a new cross but we do not have the requisite values from the Aristotelian Alligator weighting system, so we wait another time frame, in this case another hour. Below are the calculations for the next hour 18:00.SEE TABLE 2.

We still do not have a currency that is at either 0% or 100% so we continue on with the next hour. However, we have an example in this tally that illustrates a possibility that sometimes arises. In developing a trading system, it is important to consider how trading decisions are to be made in all eventualities. I have described how the currencies are weighted depending on whether they close above or below the lines. What about when they close exactly one the line? In this case, I give it a value of .5. Therefore, if the pair closes on the bottom line, the first currency has a value of .5 and the second has 2.5. If the close is on the middle line, each currency has a value of 1.5. And if the close is on the top line, the first currency has a value of 2.5 and the second has .5.

If this case I have highlighted the AUDNZD in yellow because it has closed on the line. Actually, it has closed on two lines. When there is a question and one cannot clearly discern the value from visual inspection, the data window on the Meta Trader 4 platform can be opened by holding the Control button and pressing “D.” Then when the cursor is hold on the candle in question, the values of the Alligator lines and the open, high, low, and close of the bar will be shown in the data window. The chart below shows this display for the AUDNZD. Note that the close and the values for the Teeth and Lips are all at 1.2599. The value for the Jaws is 1.2596 so it is above 1 line giving it 1 point. Landing exactly on each of the other two lines gives it .5 for each of those, so the total would be 2 (1 + .5 + .5 = 2). ***SEE CHART 7***.

As we continue to the calculations for the next hour 19:00 we have the following numbers.SEE TABLE 3.

We now have two currencies at an extreme, the JPY at 0% and the NZD at 100%. So we have several pairs that meet our criteria. With the JPY at 0%, we have the CAD, AUD, and NZD all at 60% or greater. And with the NZD at 100%, we have the USD, EUR, JPY, and CHF with which to pair it. We have been looking at the charts of the CADJPY so let’s note what would happen with a trade there. SEE CHART 8.
When we have the signal to enter the trade, we enter at the opening of the next candle, in this case the opening of the 20:00 candle at price 84.65. It went to a high of 85.72 at the top of the candle labeled with a “thumbs up.” This would be a movement of 107 pips minus the 10 pip spread which would yield a maximum of 97 pips. However, we must have a definitive system for exiting the trade. For the profit target and the initial stop loss, I use the 25 bar Average True Range of one time frame higher that is a multiple of approximately 5 of the time frame I am trading. I also add in the spread to this value. The ATR (25) for the 4 hour time frame at the time of our trade was 61 pips. We add in the 10 pip spread to get 71 pips that is used as our initial stop loss and our target.

Yes, I use a 1 to 1 Reward to Risk Ratio. The strength of the trading system lies in a high win ratio.

Therefore, if our entry is 84.65 our stop would be 84.65 – 71 pips = 83.94 and our target would be 84.65 + 71 pips = 85.36. On this trade our target was easily achieved. But I add an insurance measure by also using a trailing stop of 60% of the target value. In this case, I would take 71 X .6 = 42.6 or 43 pips as a trailing stop. This means that if the trade gets 43 pips into a profit, the original stop loss would immediately move to break even. If the trade went only to +43 pips exactly and then plummeted back to a negative value, the trade would be stopped with no loss and no gain. Once initiated, the trailing stop would follow exactly 43 pips behind until the target is reached or until the price turns around and intercepts the trailing stop.

Not all of the signaled trades hit their targets. Go back and examine the outcome of the other pairs that signaled entries at this date and time. Then look at other dates and times. Also, examine the currency strengths for higher time frames like the 4 Hour and Daily time frames. This system does not appear as reliable for time frames under 1 Hour. Even with the higher probability time frames, the reliability of the system can be enhanced by noting chart patterns and multiple time frame relationships. Do back testing and forward testing on a demo account and then with a small live account as you perfect your trading skills."

Hope you enjoy!

…Collecting Pips Is A Way Of Life…


Alligator Calculator.zip (8.29 KB)



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I know the attachments are crazy blurry, so you are best advised to view the word document.

I’d really like to hear what you guys think of this. Please leave any comments/opinions/advice that you have. I wil be checking this post often!!

…Collecting Pips Is A Way Of Life…

Made some good money in my last few trades using this. Caught 92 pips with GPB/JPY. Trade started 2010.06.02 at 06:10 and hit my t/p at 2010.06.03 01:22. Would have made 61 pips on CHF/JPY at 2010.06.02 06:00 but instead of trusting the ATR (25) I moved my stop a bit higher to the last swing low. DUMB IDEA!!! I got stopped out and 2 pips later it reversed and price is still going up. I have yet to incorporate the trailing stop into any of my trades, I don’t see the need.

The downfalls I’ve seen with this is that you have to have large s/l’s and such which I dont know about you but makes me a little uncomfortable. But being a 1:1 risk/reward, I could overcome that . Also, you have to have all 28 charts of the pairs derived from the major 8 up on your screen and it can be mildly tedious going through each one recording where it is in relation to the Alligator indicator. Well worth it though. So far I’ve yet to enter a losing trade with it when I stuck to the rules strictly (there’s a reason for them after all… who knew )

I haven’t checked all the possibilities though. I normally only trade the pairs that aren’t already into their trend too far which so far looks like the pairs that have one currency close to 40% or 60% against the currency that is at the extreme (0% with the 60% or higher, or 100% with the 40% or lower).

Haha thats a mouth full but once you wrap your head around it I think it will make sense

The whole system is based on relative strengths and weaknesses of any given pair. By trading a relatively strong against a relatively weak pair (or vice-versa), logic dictates that your almost guranteed a trend. It’s more a matter of getting your stop-loss and take profit in the right place.

At least thats how it looks so far. I know I’ve tried a lot of seemingly sound system in theory and then in practice burning your money would have been better…so do try it out and tell me what you think. Like I said so far its promising

…Collecting pips is a way of life…

Hello smart, I just downloaded the documents and spreadsheet.
I think there is good potential, but I need to unpack the Word document, and implement in real tests, and visual, so the work ahead.:eek:
I think starting a bit this weekend, because I’ll have time.
Ideally will have an EA that makes the entry work, but that’s another story, as Kipling said …:wink:
Sorry for my poor English.:frowning:
Good weekend
Regards, Didier

Haha agreed. Yea that is the big downside to the system is that it can be very time consuming :frowning: . I have found though that more times than not, one currency will either be at 0% or 100% so at least you wont have to go through many cycles to get an opportunity–one is usually enough.

Im still trying to figure out some of the mechanics that are involved with the system. I’ve done a good amount of manual backtesting and just started some forward testing two days ago. Now I need to go back and condense all of my information…fun fun. But please do share your results of this weekend–whether its good, bad, or ugly. Thanks Didier!!!

…Collecting pips is a way of life…

Im still trying to figure out some of the mechanics that are involved with the system. I’ve done a good amount of manual backtesting and just started some forward testing two days ago. Now I need to go back and condense all of my information…fun fun. But please do share your results of this weekend–whether its good, bad, or ugly. Thanks Didier!!!

…Collecting pips is a way of life…[/QUOTE]

Smarttj Hello, I just spent several hours to test the system.
I chose dates at random, and made every hour on a meeting in London.
Wow it’s work, :eek: but I do not regret the results are encouraging, although very incomplete.
In fact it lacks the definition of ATR in the moment and the newspaper stories, that affect the markets.
In summary, I will start Monday to test in real time, and draw first results after one week.:stuck_out_tongue:
Regards, Didier

Smarttj Hello, I just spent several hours to test the system.
I chose dates at random, and made every hour on a meeting in London.
Wow it’s work, :eek: but I do not regret the results are encouraging, although very incomplete.
In fact it lacks the definition of ATR in the moment and the newspaper stories, that affect the markets.
In summary, I will start Monday to test in real time, and draw first results after one week.:stuck_out_tongue:
Regards, Didier

Haha yea I know, ive done a ridiculous amount of backtesting this weekend too with pretty good results. I used the ATR as described (25 bar on the 4 hr TF) but I also didn’t pay any attention to news.

It seems that you definitely keep an eye on at least the 4 hr TF, although i look at the daily too. Also, Im not sure how much you know about “Currency Pair Correlations” but I brushed up on that this weekend too and it also helps in choosing the best trades, while avoiding over-trading.

I too plan on forward testing this weekend so it will be interesting to compare our results : ) Thanks for taking an interest Didier, as with anything, results have much more strength when having multiple sources. Good luck!!!

…Collecting pips is a way of life…

Smarttj, am new to the forum and also new to forex. i’ve been reading up on things for the past week and will soon be running a demo account. I’ve also been looking into a system to test out. Am considering testing this out but maybe in 2 to 3 weeks time though.

Thanks for posting this here and please do keep us updated with the results.

Well thanks for your interest! I will definitely be keeping up with the forum, you can count on that :wink: . The more people who tries it out and gives their opinion, the better the system can become. I will be posting weekly results either this Friday or Saturday hopefully as I will be doing for the weeks to come!! Good luck with everything and welcome to the club :D!!

…Collecting pips is a way of life…

Hey all, I will be posting one or two of my trades that I have made in the past week in the posts to come but in all I would say for me the jury is still out. I am very sorry to admit that I wasnt able to trade a lot this week because of some personal matters (my fiance is vacationing out of the country and it took a couple of days taking her to the airport–international flights :frowning: not fun times) so I am unable to really provide too many trades. Hopefully [B]didilut[/B] or someone else was able to otherwise ill be sure to have a good bit by next week.

I had two trades one positive one negative. My negative however should in fact have been a t/p but i didnt calculate the spread into the s/l and t/p (doh!!:rolleyes:)) so my stop loss was triggered and that exact same pip price turned around and headed straight down past my t/p. Too bad I wasnt at my computer at the time!!

Anyways my two trades were on the 1 hr TF: they were
USD/CAD: Open= 1.0482 t/p=1.0421 S/l=1.0543
[ul]
[li]The trade was positive and was filled at my t/p for a +61 pips, I actually used two lots so it was double that but ill record for one. This was opened on 2010.06.08 at 23:00 GMT (I think its GMT i may have to double check)
[/li][/ul][ul]
[li]The CAD was at the extreme 100% with the dollar at <40% at 26%.
[/li][li]Since the CAD is the the second currency in the pair this means that I would go short
[/li][/ul]
EUR/GBP: Open= .8250 t/p= .8219 s/l= .8281
[ul]
[li]This is the trade that I forgot to factor in my spread :frowning: but anyways it was a -31 pip loss. This was opened on 2010.06.09 at 05:00 GMT (again, not positive if its GMT)
[/li][/ul][ul]
[li]In this case the EUR was at the other extreme 0% and the GBP was at >60%
[/li][li]Since the EUR is the first in the pair and its extremely weak, I took the short position
[/li][/ul]

Obviously two trades is nowhere close to what we need to decide the win/loss ratio so I will try my very best to have much more this week. Sorry!!!

On second thought, I will just wait until next week to post any charts unless someone really wants to see them, if so I will. But to be honest there’s very little point in seeing the chart, all you would see is where i opened and closed. The real information is in the excel sheet.

Smarttj hello, my week has been hectic, and I could not properly test the system.:confused:
Of the five trades that I open, 4 have won, but the test is not serious.
I’ll try to work better this week on the graph 1 hour.
Good week.
Regards, Didier:)

Hi Smart,

Just a few questions (based on the eg given in the word doc.):

  1. If i calculated all the number based on closing of say at 1800, how can i managed to enter at the opening of 1900?? By time i calculate everything, even automated with exel spreadsheet, it will still takes about one minute rite?

  2. What if by time i finished plucking in the figures, the CADJPY shoots up 40pips within the first minute of the next candle?

  3. What if by time i finished plucking in the figures, the CADJPY goes down about 40pips against my way? do i still go in?

  4. Based on the example, JPY 0%, NZD 100%, CAD/AUD/NZD > 60%, USD/EUR/JPY/CHF <40%. WIll buying NZDJPY gives the highest wining possibility, as compared to other pairs?

  5. Do you ignore any Support and Resistance lines?

  6. Do you still trade even it’s near news hours?

  7. is there any particular time/period that this system works? or i can use it any end of the hour from Monday to Friday??

  8. Are the MAs Exponential, linear, smoothed or simple?

  9. Shd i apply to close, open, high low, etc??

My personal opinion is as follows:

[U]Advantage[/U]
This system makes sense in terms of trading in line with trend, and as you’ve mention buying strong currency and selling weak currency. So automatically since ur not betting against the trend, ur trade is “rational”, thus shd generate > 50% win lose rate.

[U]Disadavantage[/U]

It is does not help in avoiding u entering at the tip or bottom.

[U]Other opinion[/U]

  1. It’s also more suitable for long term trading or high TP/SL trading, i.e. susceptible to retractions. So a TP/SL of less than 50pips is definitely not suitable. In fact anything below 100pips is quite dangerous.

  2. This is more of a fundamental system (something like the “Sunday Breakout Strategy” in another thread), and definitely not technical system. Nothing wrong though.

Noentheless, good work, thanks for sharing and i’ll test it and see how’s the win lose rate.

Btw, wat is your win lose rate up to now?
How long u have use this?

just realised i’ve only got 23 pairs out of the 28 pairs.

So this system won’t cut out for me?

Smarttj hello, my week has been hectic, and I could not properly test the system.
Of the five trades that I open, 4 have won, but the test is not serious.
I’ll try to work better this week on the graph 1 hour.
Good week.
Regards, Didier

Haha no problem, I completely understand, I had a very similar week. I also use the 1 hour graph. Any higher and for me its like watching grass grow. haha but like you said this week I am also cracking down and I’m going to try my best to get a good deal more results. See ya next week [B]Didier ;)[/B]

Hey [B]Fxster[/B], Ill do my best to try and answer you questions and comments based on my experience so far. But remember, I did not come up with the system so take what you want and leave the rest. With that in mind:

  1. If i calculated all the number based on closing of say at 1800, how can i managed to enter at the opening of 1900?? By time i calculate everything, even automated with exel spreadsheet, it will still takes about one minute rite?

Agreed. Obviously it is impossible to instantaneously calculate everything so you can catch the exact opening price of the next candle. I manually put in all the values for all 28 pairs and it takes about 3 minutes i would guess (havent ever timed myself but maybe i will :cool:) But I do not think that this issue is isolated to this system. Unless your using an EA (which I do not use any) there will always be some delay.

Now I can tell you how to speed up the process if it helps. I dont know what platform you use but i use MT4 so thats how ill explain it. I open all 28 charts and place them in the order they are in in the excel sheet (making sure all the charts are on the right TF). I then systematically go through each pair looking at where the previous price closed and work my way down to the last pair. Most of the time its obvious whether the pair should get a 0,1,2,3 but if its very close, it doesnt take but 10 seconds to check the close price on the data window.

  1. What if by time i finished plucking in the figures, the CADJPY shoots up 40pips within the first minute of the next candle?

Well there are no hard and fast rules to this so I would say its your call. Personally though, I havent seen this happen too often but yes your right it could.

  1. If this happens you could ignore the trade and wait for the next opportunity (not taking a position is a position)
  2. You could take the 25 bar ATR from the next TF up, apply it to the open price of the current candle and enter the position with those t/p and s/l but this might give you a very lopsided risk/reward ratio. Now if the candle has somehow already exceeded the t/p or s/l by the time you get everything calculated, obviously you wouldnt take this trade.
  3. You could apply the 25 bar ATR to the current price and apply the t/p and s/l to that. From what I have seen, the price hardly ever exactly reaches the t/p and turns around to comeback and hit the s/l that are placed by the 25 bar ATR of the opening price.

Q&A cont’d on next post

EDIT: Just timed myself, I put in all the values correctly in just under 2 minutes. Ooo yea :cool: I’ve had some practice though-- overtime you get an eye for where the price is at.

  1. What if by time i finished plucking in the figures, the CADJPY goes down about 40pips against my way? do i still go in?

This is answers to the above question apply to this as well.

  1. Based on the example, JPY 0%, NZD 100%, CAD/AUD/NZD > 60%, USD/EUR/JPY/CHF <40%. WIll buying NZDJPY gives the highest wining possibility, as compared to other pairs?

Haha, I thought this exact thing. It sort of makes sense at first glance doesnt it. But what I have found is that no the two extremes do not give the highest winning %. One reason being is that it takes time for both currencies to reach max strength and max weakness, in this time, price action has been at work, working towards this. Therefore by the time that you calculate that the pair is at the extreme, the price has been trending for quite some time and usually pretty stongly. Usually I do not take that pair in a trade.

What I have found to give a better winning percentage is by taking the extreme currency and pairing it with a currency thats close to the 60 or 40 mark. In your example, say JPY is 0% and NZD=100%, CAD=95%, and AUD=62%. I would probably only take the AUDJPY pair because it is probably nearest the the beginning of its trend.

I know I’m probably not being too clear, but once you start looking at charts and such, and thinking about the system logically, it does make sense.

Do you ignore any Support and Resistance lines?

If you want you can use S/R lines. It is not a necessary component of this system though. It might strengthen it, im not sure, I rarely use S/R lines personally. I instead use Bollinger bands to help guide my decisions, I think they are more true to price action than S/R lines because as you know, noone will draw the same line as you.

However, please experiment with whatever you like and if you find that it helps, do share. Actually, you should share either way so other people can have you input and maybe you will have saved some of their time. Its a win/win whether it works or not.

  1. Do you still trade even it’s near news hours?

For me it depends on the news. I usually trade unless it is relatively influential news for example the CPI for GBP is coming out at 4:30 my time this morning, and thats usually impactful, so Ill probably see how that goes before i trade. But again this is your call, but like any system, whatever you decide stay consistant. For the news I think that the calender found on babypips does a satisfactory job of outlining the relative impacts of various reports. The red flags are what I pay attention to. It works for me and I stay consistent with it.

  1. is there any particular time/period that this system works? or i can use it any end of the hour from Monday to Friday??

I make it a rule to not trade this system on sundays because the market usually spends its time retracing the gap (if there was one). But I don’t have any hard evidence of why you shouldn’t. I do trade early fridays but im out of all my trades a good 3-4 hours before the weekend close.

Other than that though, you can trade anytime during any session without it really effecting the results.

  1. Are the MAs Exponential, linear, smoothed or simple?

Again, Im not sure what platform you use, but if you google “alligator indicator” you should be able to get it. But to save you about 3 minutes, ill copy the info from a website explaining what it is:
[B]Alligator’s jaws (blue line)[/B] – 13-period Simple Moving Average built from (High+Low)/2, moved into the future by 8 bars;
[B]Alligator’s teeth (red line)[/B] - 8-period Simple Moving Average built from (High+Low)/2, moved by 5 bars into the future;
[B]Alligator’s lips (green line)[/B] - 5-period Simple Moving Average built from (High+Low)/2, moved by 3 bars into the future.

Cont’d next post…