The business of Trading

I don’t intend, nor pretend to know everything, about trading, but I do understand how difficult this endeavor it is difficult enough with out the miss information out there so I want to share with all of you the not so glamorous side of things.

Trading is not so fun, and you wont get rich quick, trading is not for everyone. But for those who really have the desire and the drive, many sacrifices have to be made. Just like any career one needs to study, and learn. Don't believe everything people say, not even me, do the research for your self.

Why most people fail?
My theory on why people fail is, that most are looking for the wrong things, and the philosophy on trading is not rooted on reality. Most people want to set and forget, or use a system that can automatically make money. A holy grail indicator or different sets of indicators with customized parameters, that will yield the elusive profitability. And in reality it wont, some talk about the edge and a secret knowledge that successful investors possess but wont reveal. That is also b/s.

I will reveal the secret knowledge: PRICE CANNOT EVER BE PREDICTED

here is why:

there is no holy grail, no key to unlocking our path to millions by trading the markets. If people possessed such key they would not give it away. the way people are using technical studies noawadays is wrong. Wrong in the fact that we must not base our trades on indicators, or type of charts, they all display past price, the market is not 2 dimentional and mathematically predicatable, “rigid”.

The market is comprised of humans, and humans behave differently. There are many players that move the market and many reasons for the forces of supply and demand and liquidity. To try to “predict” the market by past laggin statistical studies is “FALLACY”. All the technical indicators and studies, techniques and systems that are used today to trade the market where created for a purpose, one must understand them, but not follow them blindly.

The financial markets is a place that allows buyers and sellers to sell financial securities, other derivative and tangible assets. In a financial economy the markets facilitate the rasing of capital, the transfer of risk, the transfer of liquidity and facilitate international trade.

There a re many models and theories regarding the markets, lets take into account for example the Efficient Market Hypothesis, which in a nutshell indicates that prices cannot be predicted by looking at the past as the past action was driven by past events and the markets are inherently random due to the fact that the information that drives the market is priced in already. And the future price will move according to future information. Although humans are infficient in nature the sum of all particiapants make the market efficient as it give equilibrium.

Behavioural finance however states that market inffeciencies occur due to the inefficient psychology of the market participants, human error will be priced in the markets as well, and sentiment, greed, fear, will play a role on the movement of price. Humans tend to repeat their mistakes one can attempt profit from current inefficiencies.

Furthermore, predictive analysis such as elliot wave, pivot points, fibonacci are nothing but assumptions and opinions of where price MIGHT BE in the future, and because humans cannot predict the future such studies should not be regarded as the wholy grail. Lagging indicators give you statistical analysis of past price action, but cannot fortell future events either. The markets move in the now, and the movement of millions of market participants cannot simply be summerized in a simple mathematical formula.

At the very top of the battlefield command is the FED they are the owners of the market. Whatever you may trade its normally against the USD. Even the crossess, so in perspective you will always be walking into their radar. They have their chief Ben who have a whole squadd of people crunching numbers to determine their postions and whether there’re things they could od to improve their position.

Then down the food chain there’s the other Central Banks having their radar on their respective currencies. The hands and legs of the FED are the CB dealers who’s responsibilities are to police the markets. Making sure that its behaving itself. Its chief responsibility is to acertain that there’s no riots in the market so long as things are peaceful they leave everybody alone to do their thing.

Then just under them is the tie 1 bank dealers. These dealers are normally marketmakers to the interbank market, nad have very lanrge daylight limits and risk parameters to work within. They are also the eyes for the CB dealers as most large customers go through them to deal. So they can see who’s bying or selling dollars. If there are irregularities where by some large customers comes into the marekts to buy or sell dollars. CB dealers are put in the know and will be on standby to see if markets may be distured.

under the tier 1 there are the tier 2 banks and tier 3 banks, they functions as the lines of distribution. If as in the example above a large corp comes selling dollars and the CB dealers do not intervene, then the tier 1 banks will start selling the dollars down to tier 2 banks in smaller packages, and the tier 2 will likewise start selling to tier 3 in smaller packages, in 20 to 30 mins tat process fizz out and most dealers would be short of dollars to a certain extent.

MORE on market structure, the FX market is a global decentralized otc market it facilitates the exchange from a curerncy to another currency, it can be use for speculation, carry trade, and facilitate comerse in the international market. Any transaction made from one currency to another is concidered a forex transaction.

It can be traded in spot transactions, outright forwards, forex swaps, options and many other products. It is divided into different levels of access, at the top is the interbank market which is made of the largest commercial banks and security dealers. Then the top tier bank market, then the small banks followed by multi national corporations, large hedge funds, and even some of retail forex market makers. Pension funds, insurances, mutual funds, and other institutional investors have played an increasingly important role in financial markets in general,

BANKS- the interbank market caters to both the majority of commercial turnover and large amounts of speculative trading every day. A large bank may trade billions of dollars daily. Some of this trading is undertaken on behalf of customers, but much is coducted by proprietary desks, trading for the banks own account. Until recently forex brokers did large amounts of business, facilitating interbank trading and matching anonymous counterparts for large fees. Today however much of this business has moved on to more efficient electronic systems. The brokers squawk box lets traders listen to ongoing interbgank trading and is heard in most trading rooms, but turnover is noticeably smaller than just a few years ago.

Commercial companies= an important part of this market comes from the financial activities of companies seeking foreing exchange to pay for goods or services. Commercial companies often trade fairly small amounts compared to those of the banks or speculatoers and their trades often have little shrot term impact on the market rates. Nevertheless trade flows are an important factor in the longterm direction of a currency’s exchange rat. Some multinational companes can have an unpredictable impact when very large postions are covered due to exposures that are not widely know by other market participants.

Central banks- national central banks play an importan role in the foreign exchange markets. They try to control the money supply, inflationg and or interest rats and often have official or unnofficial target rates for their currencies. They cfan use their often substantial forex reserves to stabilize the market. Nevertheless the effectiveness of central banks stabilizing speculation is doubtful because central banks do not go bankrupt if they make large lossess, like other traders would and there is no convincing evidence that they do make profit.

Forex fixing- forex fixing is the daily monetary exchange rate fixed by the national bank of each conuntry. The idea is that central banks use the fixing time and exchange rate to evaluate behaviour of their currency. Fixing exchange rates reflects the real value of equilibrium in the forex market. Banks dealers, and online fx traders use fixing rates as a trend indicator.
The mre expectation or rumor of central bank intervention might be enough to stabilize a currency, but aggressive intervention might be used several times each year in countries with a dirty float currency regime. Central banks do not always achieve their objectives. The combined resources of the market can easily overwhelm any central bank. Several scenarions of this nature were seen in the 1992-93 ERM collapse and in more recent times south east asia.

hedge funds and speculators about 70-90% of the fx exchange transactions are speculative. In other words the person or institution that bought or sold the currency has no plan to actually take delivery of the currency in the end. Rather they were solely speculating on the movement of the particular currency. Hedge funds have gained a reputation for agrresive currency speculationg. They control billions of dollars of equity and may borrow billions more, and this may overwhelm intervention by central banks to support almost any currency, if the economic fundamentals are in the hedge funds favor.

investment firms- investment firm use the fx market to facilitate transactions in foreign securities. For example an investment manager bearing an internationsl equity portfolio needs to purchase and sell several pairs of foreign currenies to pay for foreign securities.
Some investment management firms also have more specualtive secialist currency overlay operations, which manage clients currency exposures with the aim of generating profits as well as limiting risk. Whilst the number of this type of specialist firms is quite small many have large value of assets under management and hence can generate large trades.

Retail fx traders= individuals constitute a growing segment of this market with advent of retail forex platforms both in size and importance. Currently they participate indirectly through brokers or banks. Retail brokers while largely controlled and regulated in the US by CFTC and NFA have in the past been subjected to periodic fx scams. To deal with the issuea the NFA and CFTC began imposing stricter requirements. Particuarly in relations to the amount of net capitalizaition required of its members. As a result many of the smaller and perhaps questionable brokers are now gone or have moved to countries outside the US. A number of the fx brokers operate from the UK under FSA regulations where forex trading using margin is part of the wider OTC derivatives trading industry that includes CFDs and financial spread betting.

Major currency pairs (positive correlation) Euro/ usd/, Gbp/Usd, Aud/usd, nzd/usd, (inverse correlating pair) usd/jpy, chf/usd, cad/usd, and the only pair non usd based is eur/jpy

all other pairs use the usd as a base against the relative value of Usd against another pair

usd/xxx vs usd/zzz = xxx/zzz

theories on what moves the exchange rates (none so far explains with certainty the reason of movement on a floating exchanger rate system)

economic factors: gov fiscal polic (budget/spending practices) monetary poclicy, government budget deficits or surpluses, balance of trade trends, inflation levles, interest rates, economic growth, and productivity of economy. Political conditions, and market participant psychology. Risk aversion.

All economic conditions is interrelated with forex. As you purchase stocks domestic or international, commodities, oil prices, liquidation of assets, carry trades. It all affects the forex market.

how did I cope with this conundrum? The left of the chart offers information, rooted in past events yet to exploit unknown information from the oncoming feed, is what brings home the bacon.
What I recommend is to stop trading, get rid off all the indicators, charts, candles, ichimoku, point and figure etc.
look at price in its purest form, the quotes (those quotes we ignore or close to get to our charts) where price moves up and down up and down rapidly. Those are all orders, bid/ask, that is what the market is.
Can you trade from the quotes alone? Probably not, you would need to write them down and do some analysis right?

That is why they invented charts ( what im getting at is charts are the result of the quotes, the quotes will never be the result of the chart) so if you were to try to measure the strength of these orders, you would need a way to break it up in blocks of time, and give you a visual read of distance, velocity, and range traveled correct? To try to anticipate the orders and get in a the best possible price. Well some genius invented candle sticks. So how would I use candle sticks? For patterns? For formations? no.

to measure the underlying strength of order flow and the likelihood of the continuation. Now if you listened to me and started looking at the quotes alone for a couple of hours you would get a feel for direction, and behavior. This can be observed in the candles. People talk about time frames but time frames dont exist, example a daily=1440 minutes, an hourly=60 minutes a 5minute chart=5 minutes of bid/ask cut into periods of time. So 5 minute is closer to the market than 1440 minutes. A candle is made up of Open, High,Low,Close of this continuous data for a customized period of time.

To simplify the purpose of candles it is safe to say that, if the candle is positive= more buying orders
if the candle is negative= more selling orders
the bigger the candle the more buying/selling pressure for that period of time.
The smaller the candle the less buying/selling pressure.
In my observations of price behavior, I can safely say that price follows 3 constants
acceleration, loss of momentum, correction for the purpose of this thread we will go by my definitions
POI, LOM,C (Point Of Inflection, Loss Of Momentum, Correction) that way when I draw it, or show you with actual charts I can just abbreviate and we all would be in the same page.

Now that we got candles out of the way we can start measuring what is important in our trading as to have a realistic expectation of price movement.

Capacity= is you can extract from the market per candle, to understand this (if you want to set pip targets, or to know how many pips you can expect to make, adjust position size or total position size )
you need to know the average range, which is hi-lo (we dont need mathematical precision just an eyeball measurement of realistic pip expectation)
if you care to know what is the daily capacity of the Fiber (Eur/Usd) measure the average range.
To measure change in velocity, you can eye ball the displacement (total distance travel from starting point to end point) close-open. Think is terms of order flow and momentum and you will start to see the turning points when current sentiment changes (this delay is what makes you money)
if you are selling you want to position yourself at LOM, and if you are buying at POI.

Market form: market form is what type of market you are trading there is only three
BULL, BEAR, or RANGING. Identify this.

Volatility: variations in price, or deviations from the mean, it is important to know the volatility of a security as to give you realistic view, of when your assumptions are correct, or if you can implement your contingency plan. Many people use S/R to measure turning points however price CANNOT be predicted. S/R is a great tool to measure actual current volatility, or in other words the range in price deviations. Bollinger Bands measure actual future volatility by calculating standard deviations from the mean plotted by SMA (and SMA is a powerful tool when properly used, but not for the MA crosses b/s)

I can get into SMAs if you want but for now ill leave them alone.

When trading, I plot the daily open in my charts, be it the hourly measurement or the 5 minute, I want to know where I am at in relation to daily capacity, and strength in order flow.

It is also important to do objective analysis on fundamental factors
yields
interest rates
gdp
unemployement

understand the correlation among the 6 major currencies, the correlation between oil, gold, silver, commodities and the USD.

Because of the unpredictability of price, a sound money management plan has to be in place, felxible and realistic. Remember there is more choices than simply SL and TP, (I dont use stop losses and I dont use TP, I take what the market gives and manage my trade interactively)
press, hold, scale in, scale out, average down or liquidate (bite the bullet) according to market conditions. Which we can discuss my MM if you like as well, and how I tie TA and FA

I’m relatively new to trading but I’ve done a bit of research. I like your approach and agree that technicals are only a small part of what you need to trade successfully. Thank you for sharing.




if i see interest in this thread i will also describe my money management

I’m interested, but your pictures are too small.

You have my interest, keep writing.

i’ll re size the and re post them




keep in mind no predictions, when prices bounces up, on this loss of downward pressure, its the strength of the bounce that signals if one should stay in or not. as we have seen more selling today than buying, but not only are we looking for a daily reference for continuation, but be aware of the volatility of the month as well as loss of momentum of the day,

I agree with shroomhead, interesting stuff. But ya those pictures are way too small. fix that and ill be back

there is really nothing to the money management.

i start with a scout/ feeler to see if in fact i am correct 1 lot
if i am in deed correct this scout should give me foreign capital to risk on my next position 1 more lot = 2 total lots
if i continue to be right and according to my objective ongoing analysis i continue to add or POI if buying on LOM if selling
on a fibo progression or (phi) the reason for this is that it takes a 50% retrace to take out my foreign capital

1,1,2,3,4,5,8…

if i am wrong however in my timing and price moves against my position but is still in tune with volatility i just re average once more to get a better price on fibo progression…however, lets be careful not to snow ball into a big loss, if im not comfortably re averaging i will simply wait till a return to the mean. (since volatility in dicates that a return is a likely senario

if i dont feel comfortable with my position i can rescue the trade.
but this is VERY DANGEROUS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE NOT USED TO TRADING THIS WAY.

this is my money management, do not believe in taking any losses, because it takes more time coming back from a loss than managing the trade or rescuing, as percentage wise as far as equity -1 is not equal to +1, losses compound.

but i do accept that when wrong and risk of further damage sometimes one needs to bite the bullet.

i believe that at first one needs to begin buy small position sizes, and mastering the analysis of the market, once that is done we can begin to scale in or out. some times one CAN set a stop loss and gamble in with a big position but it all depends on the market conditions, i use all tools available
scale in
go all in
hold
average
scale out
or simply liquidate

also keep in mind this is an ants job, you can set profit targets according to market capacity, but attempt to compound your account growth by percentage growth. do not try to get rich quick, compounding will get you there, and it takes experience,and dedication.

looking at the other majors can give you an advantage as to the likely move, or the lag of the currency you are trading or other currencies.

the positive correlated majors are eur/usd, gbp/usd aud/usd
the negative correlated majors are usd/jpy,usd/chf, usd/cad

be aware of the relationship of the currencies with the yields, current events, bank interventions, risk apettite, commodities, interest rates, NFP, GDP, …etc

roughly the risk averse currency or save heave currencies are
USD, YEN, CHF
when people have risk apetite usually
gbp euro cad aud
commodity currencies
aud correlates to gold
cad correlates to oil
chf correlates to gold but not by metal exports like the aud, but by risk aversion

you are all welcome to post, agree, disagree, contribute, discuss, ask, i want newbies to learn, and experience traders to discuss, share and contribute

This is good confirmation as to how I’ve began trading recently. Scaling into a trade, moving my stops just ahead of net profit line. If I get stopped out, there is no loss. Try again when a trade looks ideal. Only lose on the initial “scout” lot if my assumption is going the wrong way.

The trick is protecting that net profit line behind a SR zone. Then capitalizing on a trend move.

i personally dont like stop losses they are very expensive, they get hit if you are not aware of volatility, and sometimes it gets in the way.

however everyone has their own style, and if believe they help you be profitable, that is all that matters, personally stop losses are bad.

i believe they are useful when gambling, but if managing risks interactively you shouldnt need one.
some people simply hedge their trades, remaining delta neutral, some people attempt to hedge on inverse correlations, others on etfs, to each their own

to clarify a point: when i mentioned ORDER FLOW, i did not mean PAYMENT FOR ORDER FLOW, which is the most common definition, dealer or market maker, paying a broker to trade against retail traders (uninformed traders) to obtain the commission on the spread.

i was meaning in the literal sense of flow of orders, however because of the potential for confusion, i will now refer to this as INFLUX OF ORDERS (OR CONVICTION)

I use SL’s because I’m new and don’t know what I’m doing yet. And, I tend to swing trade so I am not available to monitor it continually. Maybe that’s why you don’t use them? You are on top of your trade from open to close?

This is very interesting the red lion. Will continue to read.

The key of success: have the maturity and discipline to.accept there is no key of success.

a little bit more on the market makers.

forex is an Inter-bank spot market, banks deal with each other and with large corporations, each of them quote the bid/ask differently but depending on the size of the bank, they have bigger credit meaning bigger market access. They can see the best prices available, and can feel each other by how they are quoting, shading or tearing.

these banks deal with our brokers which are essentially bucket shops, unless you have the capital to have a straight through processing dealer. from what i am aware, brokers have two books they keep.
essentially they will keep you on 1 book unless you are hitting them hard at which point they will have to offset their risk either by letting you deal at true market or against other traders you will be effectively in book 2.
however because of the pattern of dumb money (sorry that’s how they call us retail) they usually will take your trade, expecting you to lose your capital.

sometimes you can get a feel for order flow when they start shading, this is different than slippage, (slippage is when the market moves away from your bid too fast and dealer wont quote you (this doesnt happen at inter-bank due to their word is their bond and it will reflect bad on their credit, bad credit means restricted access to better quotes) anyway shading happens when market makers move ask or bid higher than true market because of influx of orders on either (in essence they give you a higher price by quoting you higher if their books reflect more buying than selling)

if you dont believe me research the info, this is a business and every one is in it for the money.
for this reason, i maintain my position that pretty lines, like fibs, s/r, crosses, mathematical algorithms do nothing to predict price.
find a way to feel the aspect of the move, and capitalize on it. as i have said before, big money will go stop hunting to offset their risk, some will trigger the stops to get in on the cascade and exit on the bounce. this is one of the reasons i do not use stop losses

“Interbank dealers gun for stops but there is also a whole new breed of professional trader who make a livlihood on other people’s misery. This is how it works.
These traders will have very large trading lines with a number of brokers, retail and institutional. They usually have good information on where all the big stops are as they are generally ex-interbank traders with excellent contacts. When they see that stops are about to be triggered, they will hit their brokers with everything they’ve got so they might be selling anything up to $1 billion across about 5 or 7 brokers in a matter of seconds. They like to operate in less-liquid markets as then their chances of triggering the stops and also of getting bigger gaps, are greatly enhanced. The brokers have the option of holding that position but generally they will try and offload immediately, thereby adding to the stop selling panic. As soon as the market gaps lower, the trader will enter the market and try to buy back his shorts for a quick 30 or 40 pip profit.
Obviously the brokers are wary of this type of business but most of the bigger ones will put up with it, though that might be changing.”

source:Professional traders who profit from stop-loss runs | ForexLive