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Beginner Questions
4123

Hehe, wise words :cool:

Thanks once more! :smiley:

4124

That is correct!! :slight_smile:

Live price action needs only to touch it.
If you like you can set an entry order on the line, and when the price action touches it, you are in the trade!! :wink:

4127

thanks for answers tymen and Nforex,

can I use macd with settings values
FastEMA=6
SlowEMA=19
SignalEMA=9

to verify cbl entry??

If retrace touchs the parabolic sar then I am out of trade???

4128

how much pips do you allow to run against your trade with cbl entry?
until it hit your SL or do you exit before it hit SL as Graviton does?

4129

If the [B]parabolic sar has already crossed the mid bb[/B] you do this:

  • if a candle hits your “parabolic sar stoploss” you [I]get ready[/I] to close your trade
  • now you wait for the candle to close
  • if the candle goes back in your favor you stay in the trade
  • if the candle closes below (in a long trade) / above (in a short trade) of your “parabolic sar stoploss” you close your trade.

You must decide yourself.

[B]Gravitation[/B] exits earlier and re-enters later.
[B]Tymen [/B]waits if the StopLoss is hit or not.

Choose which approach works better for you and stick with it.
:slight_smile:

4130

Hi NForex :slight_smile:

I have b-a-d experience waiting for a candle closed.

It was usd/chf I was waiting and hopping that the candle will go back in the direction of my trade. But it didnt. More is the candle was around 100 pips long :eek:
I know its not everyday such gifty candles :smiley:
but still …
I would prefer to set SL at the parabolic sar.
Is there an EA that can move SL along with Parabolic sar?

4131

Ok thanks Tymen,

another question;

Would it be correct to say that the PAR SAR is only used during a BB walk, and we use extreme candles on the opposite BB for ranging or squeezed action? That SAR tends to go crazy in a squeeze.
If so, we really need to pay attention to what those outer BB are doing.

4132

Hi [B]RenaLa[/B] :slight_smile:

If closing the trade when it hits your parabolic sar stoploss gives you good results then i would say go for it. Whatever works is good :smiley:

Just try it and make sure you stick to your method for at least 20 trades or so.
Then you can review these trades and decide if you need to change something or not.

To your bad experience:
Hehe a few months ago i had something similar. It hurts, i know.
Ouchy ouch. :stuck_out_tongue:

4133

Hi [B]VulcanClassic[/B]
im not tymen but i think you’re right.
If you cant see any signs of an upcomming BB-walk then you take profit at that outer BB.
So you have an OO-trade. (outer to outer)
And thats fine :slight_smile:

4135

Nforex, I was surprised when I first gave an example of a 30 pip SL and people thought 30 pips was the stop loss I was recommending for everyone in every trading situation. I’ll dive into this hot button issue, but any examples are for illustration purposes only and not recommended for everybody in every situation.

I can’t see enough detail to say just how I’d trade that entry on Tymen’s chart, but yes, odds are I would have exited once on a down turn and re-entered when price turned back up and recrossed that same point, or maybe a little sooner. The cost of doing that is about 3 to 5 pips in spread. You can easily calculate if this makes sense for your particular trading. Opposite of what we’d think, it makes more sense to cut losses quickly at higher TF’s than lower ones since spread takes a smaller bite out of profits and stops are larger at longer TF’s. I believe that might account for part of the difference in the details of the entry method. It’s easy to calculate if this makes sense for you. I’ll do a really quick estimate here and the math wizards can play with it a little if they like. Sorry, I just don’t know how to trade without at least a little math.

Roughly, suppose your win loss ratio is 70%, which is considered good. Say you enter a trade with a 4 pip spread and a 35 pip SL and it goes immediately against you. Say the trade goes 15 pips against you and you exit early. You should examine your own trading to see what your Win Loss % is after the trade goes 15 pips against you immediately on entry, but your Win Loss rate probably drops to about 50% at that point since price is now moving strongly against you. That means if you stay in the trade you have a 50% chance of losing another 20 pips, or an expected loss of 10 pips. If you exit and re-enter at the same price if price turns around in your favor again, it costs you a spread of 4 pips, but that’s only if you re-enter. There’s a 50% chance the price will go on to the stop loss and you won’t re-enter since that would set a new extreme candle and invalidate the trade you were in. So your expected spread loss of exiting early on a down swing is about 2 pips. Real quick and rough, you can see that staying in yields an expected stop loss of about 10 pips and exiting early and re-entering yields an expected loss of 2 pips spread. If your numbers work out something like this, you should practice early exiting and re-entering the trade. It does take some practice and nothing works all the time. If your numbers are different, it may not be worth the bother. It works for me and that’s all I can guarantee.

Now you can say that if you stay in, you might have a much higher expected value of a big win, but that doesn’t matter if you intend to re-enter if price turns back around in your favor. Since all the original reasons to enter the trade are still valid, and price is now moving in your favor, there is no reason not to re-enter. I will re-enter all these trades when price movement changes back to my favor, so I never throw away a big winning trade because of a small move against me. That would change everything and make this strategy a big loser.

[B]So Note: This early exit strategy ONLY works if you re-enter a good trade when momentum turns back into your favor. Otherwise you are throwing away good trades to save small pips on entry.[/B]

You could ask the question then, why even enter with a 35 pip stop loss if I intend to exit anyway with a 15 pip move against me on entry. My answer is, in my particular style of trading, not Tymen’s and probably not right for everyone, my stop loss only has one purpose, to take me out of a trade when a quick spike against me occurs and I can’t manually exit out. It is calculated based on ATR, MAE, and the previous higher low in a long trade, which is almost always the bottom wick of the extreme candle on a CBL entry. My early exits on entries are based on calculations similar to the one I did above, but with a little more detail. I look at them differently and I trade them differently. Like I said, it works for me. I know it works for some others, but I can’t say it works for every method, so you really have to examine your entries in great detail and find out what works best for you.

Tymen has said that what I do doesn’t work best for him, but I don’t trade Tymen’s system just exactly as he does, so I’m not surprised we get different results. While I still have enough flexibility to incorporate a new entry or exit signal into my trading plan after lots of testing, I can’t change the basics of the way I trade and still expect to get the same results. I doubt Tymen can change his style and produce the same results either. Once you have enough data and have carefully analyzed and optimized your trading over a long period of time, I doubt your final result will be exactly like mine or Tymen’s, though it may contain elements of both. If you had an identical twin, and you were both trained to trade at the same firm, over time I doubt the two of you would trade just exactly the same. Anyway, that’s my own personal opinion and I’m sticking to it :smiley:

4136

Just updated the EA for SAR stop losses. In MT4 (not sure about GFT), the current price gets a SAR line, which repaints to the other side if current price hits it. By definition, this means that every time it jumps over the price, it did so because the Sar was hit.

Of course, this means there would never be any pausing of the StopLoss as Tymen describes, so I left the default “shift” = 1. This will put the StopLoss to the SAR attached to the candle right before the current one.

Have fun!

DO NOT TRADE LIVE WITH THE EA!

Final_Tymen_Sar.ex4.zip (75.2 KB)

4137

So true!

Thanks for your reply [B]Gravitation[/B].

It is true that my trading-style already has many influences from both [B]Tymen [/B]and you and i really think thats good.
Different perspectives on any specific topic (like the StopLoss for example) will just help me to finally form my own perspective. :smiley:

I’m happy that i can ask such things and always get high quality answers from both of you :wink: Pretty damn cool!

4138

For all users of the BB DNA chat room, there has been some distressing news. Please check your emails as I have just sent a broadcast message regarding changes in the service.

4139

Hi Dodge. Your work has really helped guide us all through this journey and I appreciate it greatly. Most of us just don’t have the skills to create the EA’s that you have made.

I’m getting old and I get confused more easily these days. Let me see if I understand.

In Tymen’s SAR application, in a long trade, when the price candle comes down and almost touches the SAR line (or dot), the SAR inverts above price, but Tymen doesn’t exit right away. He waits for the candle close and leaves his stoploss where it is. If the candle closes above the stoploss, he just leaves the stoploss where it is until either a candle closes below the stoploss, which closes the trade, or, until the SAR line reverts back down below the price when price begins moving up again, in which case he begins trailing the SAR with his stop loss again.

Once the price and SAR cross above the Bolinger Mid Band, the stop loss no longer trails the SAR, but instead trails the BB Midband. Trade exits if a candle just touches the BB Midband, a close is not required.

There is a special case exit also. It occurs when the SAR reverses on a price dip, then restores to normal as price starts back up, and price crosses the upper BB, then we exit. Once the special case exit comes up but Tymen does not exit based on his experience with BB walks. I doubt that sort of exception by experience can be programmed unless we could define a hard and fast rule for it.

Someone please correct me if I’ve made a mistake here.

Dodge, is that the way your EA works?

Thanks,
Grav

4140

MP, I believe you should be good for 6 months now. Let me know if that doesn’t work out. You can PM me here or e-mail me.

Grav

4141

I’m Just happy your trading has turned positive :smiley: Make sure you document what you are doing carefully in your trading plan. Be careful next week. Happy trading :slight_smile:

4142

Thanks for this clarifications! I had some trouble coming up with rules based on the posts on the subject I’ve seen thus far. Right now, the EA just puts your StopLoss on the SAR line. Since SAR crosses if price hits it on the current candle, I made “shift = 1” in default mode. This sets the StopLoss to the SAR point on the candle 1 back from the current.

I haven’t added the logic yet to exit the trade on an Outer BB after the Sar crosses, still figuring out all of the rules :slight_smile:

4143

[B]There are some errors here[/B] - I will correct them tomorrow with a set of hard and fast rules typed in heavy blue and the post will be indexed.

Late right now - bedtime. :slight_smile:

4144

Put on hold here, [B]Dodge[/B], until I set the rules in concrete tomorrow. :slight_smile:

4145

The way I read it;

The PSAR becomes your trailing stop loss once it has crossed the mid BB. For a long trade, exit if price [U]closes[/U] below the last normal PSAR point during an inversion. If it touches Mid BB at any time (after the PSAR has crossed) then it’s an exit. After the inversion returns to normal, and you are still in the trade (because the candle didn’t close beyond the last normal PSAR level or hit mid BB), then you would exit the next time price hits the outer BB.