THE JOY OF CANDLESTICK TRADING - a Learning Experience

Hello damo989,

I don’t say no to your words i agree with you. But i would only say that if you are a experienced trader and opening account with $10 or $1000 does not matter.

I may be wrong as i’m still relatively new to this, so anyone who is experienced please feel free to correct me (especially Tymen) :smiley:

I have just gone through Dealbook and picked out 6 good patterns over the last few days and written down the amount of pips required for the stop loss.

The average was 63 with the lowest being 30 and the highest being 100 (there was some that required a 200 pip stop loss but i didn’t include them in)

We will use a 30 pip stop loss for this example.

It is recommended not to risk more than 3% on a trade, so here goes.

For a $1000 account 3% is $30 so for a 30 pip stop loss you would only be able to buy 1 lot. Which is ok with some systems but tymen’s system uses 2 amounts, so to effectively use this system you really need to be able to risk 2 lots. So you would need $2000 for that.

Since most trades at this moment of time require a 60 pip stop loss, you really need $4000 to effectively use this system with correct money management and with mini lots. (or $400 with a micro account)

I was also planning on opening a mini account with $1000 but did the calcs and realized my money management would be out the door. So i decided it would be in my best interest to open a micro account and keep adding money and hopefully making money till i get the required amount for a mini account.

[B]Just to repeat my self to make sure its clear any experienced trader is very welcome to correct me :D[/B]

For a $1000 account 3% is $30 so for a 30 pip stop loss you would only be able to buy 1 lot. Which is ok with some systems but tymen’s system uses 2 amounts, so to effectively use this system you really need to be able to risk 2 lots. So you would need $2000 for that.

This question is very subjective, plus it depends upon everybody
understanding the intricacies of differing brokers interpretation
of lot size.

Therefore a note needs to be added to confirm that in this case
we are trading 1 [U]mini [/U]lot that is 10 000 units ($1/pip) rather than
1 [U]standard[/U] lot which is 100 000 units ($10/pip).

The math is correct, but we are talking about trading $1/pip,
why not trade 50 cents/pip (0.5 lots) or 25 cent/pip (0.25 lots),
each time this doubles the stop loss required, ie 60 pips/ 120 pips.

There is a giant gulf between gambling & trading, as far as I am
concerned trading $1/pip on a $1 000 account is gambling, there is
no room for manouver when trades go wrong.

What I hear everybody shouting is “how do I make a profit at 25 cents/pip”

My answer is learn to trade not gamble.

I can tell you that [B]Daydreamer65’s [/B]answer is very accurate.

So much so that I do not wish to add to it.

[B]Daydreamer65 [/B]has been on this forum nearly as long as I have and he is an experienced veteran trader.

I have every confidence in him and he has answered some of my own questions too.

He has been on this thread since the very beginning and made quality contributions as only a veteran trader can.

Therefore, I commend his answer to the Newbies reading this thread.

[B]The only thing I wish to contribute my teaching skills to give readers a simple formula for calculating lots to trade.[/B]

The formula is L/l.

The letter “L” stands for loss!!

The little " l " also stands for loss.

So it is an easy formula to remember.

The formula expanded is Loss ($)/loss (pips).

[U]Here is an example to show how it works[/U]…

  1. Lets say you have a trading capital of $10,000

  2. Lets say you want to risk 2% of your capital.

  3. 2% of $10,000 is $200

  4. Lets say your trade (PCI stop loss) is risking 25 pips.

  5. Now apply the formula…L($)/l(pips) = $200/25 = 8

  6. 8 what?
    That is $8/pip.

  7. Check your accounts.
    A standard lot is $10/pip…this is too much.
    A mini lot is $1/pip.

  8. You can, therefore, trade 8x1 minilots = $8/pip as required.

  9. Now, in my 4 levels of candlestick trading we are using 2 amounts.

  10. Both of these amounts have equal potential of loss.
    Therefore, you would use 4 minilots per amount in this example.

[B]You may want to print this page and keep it for reference.[/B]

[B]The Intermediate trade examples are now ready.[/B]

I have been able to work out the muti-tasking of trading, screen printing, saving and filing successfully.

So here we start the trade examples again, commencing with Intermediate level trades then progressing thro to Advanced level trades.

[B]Here is my first example.[/B]

It is an Intermediate level trade of EUR/USD on a 45 minute chart.
We are trading a [U]long engulfing[/U] pattern on the lower Bollinger band.

London was open but New York not, so that the trade moved slowly enough for me to do all the muti-tasking.

I will get better as I go along.

There are 17 charts in this example and I will post them all at once since time is now pressing before this thread closes permanently.

In this example [U]and only in this one example [/U]will I colour the Starc bands of the 5 minute chart in grey for clarity.
By now you should have some experience and from here on what you see is what you get.

Remember again, [U]these trades are live.[/U]
Notes have been added later on, but they have not been fudged in any way.

Here we go…

[B]Chart 1 [/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

This is the [U]main chart[/U] of 45 minutes.

I have removed all the grid lines for clarity.

You can see the green engulfing candle and the opening of the next candle as a horizontal line.
It was at 762

In accordance with Intermediate rules number 2, we [U]do not enter [/U]upon the entry candle.
We go to the 5 minute Starc band chart and watch instead.

[B]Chart 2[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

Here is the 5 minute chart with the entry candle of 762

The blue lines are the Bollinger bands.
I have omitted the mid Bollinger for clarity.

So far nothing has happened.

We are just looking, and, since we are going [U]long[/U], we want to [U]enter at a low [/U][U]point [/U]on the Starc bands.

[B]Chart 3 [/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

As we sit and wait we see that our entry candle has fallen.
That is we have a [U]retrace first[/U] trade.

This is good. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

We will sit and wait until the price action drops to the lower starc bands.

[B]Chart 4 [/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

On this chart you can see that the price action dropped to very nearly touching the 0.65 line.

Because the Starc bands are going up, this 0.65 line is about as far as you can expect the price action to fall.

I did not [U] enter long[/U] here (too busy doing screen prints) and this would have been a good entry.

Normally you would consider entering at this point with [U]1 amount.[/U]
This leaves you to later improve on your entry by selecting a better entry for your 2nd amount.

[B]But since I did not enter, we will wait.[/B]

[B]Chart 5[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

We now have 3 red candles on this 5 minute chart.

The first one had the best price action being near the 0.65 line.

But no matter, the candles on the main chart are 45 minutes each - time is on our side.

[B]We will wait for the right opportunity to enter.[/B]

[B]Chart 6[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

Our next 5 minute candle is a little disappointing.

The price action has gone up again - a green candle.

Still, the price action here reads 751, which is a better [U]long [/U]entry than a Basic level [U]long [/U]entry which would have been at the entry candle of 762

[B]We will wait[/B]. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

[B]Chart 7[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

We are now 6 candles out from the entry on our 5 minute chart and our latest candle price action is going down again - a red candle.

Since the Starc bands are going down, we are waiting for the price action to touch, or better, go thro the bottom Starc band.

[B]Chart 8[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

7 candles out from the entry and our price action is still dropping - red candle.

[B]Chart 9[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

Here I did the [U]long [/U]entry.
It was at 729, a 33 pip [U]improvement [/U]over the Basic level entry of 762 :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

The price action was nearly touching the bottom Starc band for the 2nd time and I was not going to take any more chances.

If the price action goes down still further, we will simply ride it out as in the Basic level.

The entry line is slightly higher than the candle base because of the 3 pip spread.

[B]Chart 10 [/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

According to rules 6+7 of the Intermediate level, we now return to the [U]main chart.[/U]
From here, the trade is exactly the same as the Basic level.

We will follow it through.

On the [U]main chart[/U], we see our entry of 729.

This entry is beautifully positioned as a retrace against the green engulfing candle.

An upward price movement will now give us a heap of pips.

For a start, we have a 33 pip advantage over a Basic level trader, as stated in the previous post.

[B]Chart 11 [/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

On this chart we have loaded all the bits.

The PCI is in place 3 pips below the green engulfing candle.

The targets have been set…

T1 has 10 pips plus 3 pips spread.
That is entry (729) + 13 = 742
[U]
T2 has risk = reward.[/U]

Now risk is distance from PCI to entry.
That is 729-686 = 43 pips.

So entry + 43 is…
729 + 43 = 772
and 772 + 3 pips spread = [U]775 which is the value of T2.[/U]

[B]Chart 12[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

This is a magnified version of the trade, using the magnification facilities of Dealbook.

As you can see, the price action has risen above the entry line and the floating profit/loss (difficult to see) is showing a nice profit already.

[B]Chart 13[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

Here we take a zoom out view of our trade.

Hmmmmm.

We are going long.

We are fighting a downward trend aren’t we? :smiley: :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

I wonder what chance we have.

[B]Candlesticks are powerful !![/B]

[B]Chart 14[/B] >>>


By tymen3 at 2008-10-31

Ahhhhh!! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

A new candle and it is green!!

The price action is going up.

The floating profit/loss window is showing a very nice profit so far!!

The money, however, is not ours until the trade is complete.

[B]So lets go!!
Next chart.[/B]