Not too bad. Both the mechanical strategies I trade are consistently updated with video’s & placed in the journal section. These are 100% rule based which is my live test this year.
I have a supply & demand strategy I trade which is not shown here as it is [B]not[/B] 100% mechanical. This is can be very subjective. Its a position strategy using Daily level’s within the monthly HTF, so slow long term profits is what I get. Last year I made 35% but I would like to diversify with mechanical strategies which is why im interested in building another strategy on this thread. Something we can all contribute too. If it’s not mechanical, then I will probably pass but its nice to chat about these things too.
This is like a central meeting place. Hey WinPsych… Look what you’ve created 
Thanks d-pip. I will check out the template above.
Regards
Tyrone
d-pip,
I agree the “effort to reward ratio” for want of a better phrase has an effect on a traders behaviour and results.
I also agree that trying to make a small account over-perform in order to meet your reward requirements increases risk exponentially. Over a large sample size, probably a sample size larger than we will ever actually trade in reality, you will get burned. Even if traded perfectly a losing streak over a tiny sample may also take you out and thats even before you bring emotion and psychology into the picture.
So logically you want to trade a big account… but practically, you also want to trade a big account that consists of money you have already won.
In your opinion, can we exploit a small account and its parameters not in the interest of income but in the interest of creating an account large enough for our efforts at reduced risk to be worth while?
When writing down your thoughts in diary or journal form you are not just recording events but looking for a clarity, improvement and/or confirmation. When you open it up to others it can take on a life of its own. I think thats and good thing and is probably what is missing from a lot of retail traders trading experience to various degrees.
Now, i still plan to continue with my original experiment, i haven’t been side tracked or put off it, however, there has been some great input and feedback in the 2 days since this thread started which has opened up other avenues and thought processes.
What i have gained from the posts you have all made is that individually; we have all gone down the Forex road with different approaches, expectations and results and our current views on Forex are a function of these experiences.
I can tell from answers to certain questions and from the views within those answers, what type of problems you have encountered and how you have solved or attempted to solve them.
One thing that impresses me is the amount of experience we have as a “group”. Experience is a very valuable commodity.
I also get from the posts that there is an understanding that something is missing and that perhaps someone else’s experience might fill in the gaps or that someone else’s strengths might complement my/ our own weaknesses.
Can we take advantage of or exploit this?
[B]In any type of exchange the worst thing that can happen is that someone takes root and just uses the situation to “fight their corner”. They know what they want to say and no evidence or alternate suggestions are going to change that. The other evil is that it just turns into a place where we pat each other on the back telling each other how clever we are stroking each others ego’s while we continue on getting no closer to our goals.[/B]
Right now we seem to have a bit of momentum going in this thread and maybe we should take advantage of it.
Tyrone suggested a collaboration. Often people start out on a big plan full of energy and excitement etc and within days or weeks it’s game over.
Would anyone be interested in starting a mini project where we take either a new or an existing strategy, hit it from all angles with our strengths with the view on having the whole trading plan established and up and running in a fixed time period of 1 month?
After the month is up if we are useless working together, i’m sure we wouldn’t even need to tell each other that its game over. If after the month, we come up with something we can either improve and go deeper into what we are doing or go on to something bigger in the knowledge that this collaboration is a good thing. Obviously we will all continue with our ongoing trading projects too.
So, i throw it open to you guys… firstly, do you want to collaborate?.. and if you do, post up some ideas and lets start brainstorming.
Your right. Who knows how long this will go on. How much interest & energy depends on the collaboration. But im always looking for another profitable strategy to diversify my portfolio further. So with that said, I will help as much as possible. The time factor may be a problem (1 month), but lets see how it goes.
Ownership usually helps with regards to time and effort put into a project. If you contribute to the whole process starting with the initial brainstorming and the decision making/ agreement in which direction the project should take then that ownership should be achieved. Having a member of the group who’s strengths are not used would be a waste of time, so by default the project would have to take these strengths into consideration from the start.
I suggested a time limit of 1 month as most people seem to respond actively to deadlines. If the momentum and intensity are there why not use it and see what we can produce in that time? A 6 month project could get lost in procrastination and fizzle out.
Good question! On one hand I want to be upbeat, optimistic and say yes there must be a smart safe way to grow a small account into an amount that will generate a handsome “effort to reward ratio”.
But on the other hand, based on my own trading experience and years of browsing FX forums, I haven’t seen any strong evidence that it is realistic.
Back around 2009-2010 there was a young guy here on bp that started with only 700 GBP and within 9 months :27: was able to support himself, his girlfriend and their newly born baby. He had 2 years of prior experience on demo accounts, was obviously very motivated to succeed, and a very smart young man!
Other than him and maybe two or three others that don’t come to mind at the moment, I haven’t seen or heard many rags to riches stories of folks starting off with only 1K – 2K or less and turning it into something substantial within a year or two or three.
If I were to suggest how to grow a small account into something substantial, I would say don’t do it via high risk trading. Instead, do it through some other means of earning and setting aside money. Build your account balance by changing your financial lifestyle, earn more and spend less to fund your account. Or sell/convert a non-cash asset into cash for your trading capital.
Raise some cash by selling the new slick shiny car, drive a beater for a few years. Move to a smaller cheaper house/apartment, cut the cable TV bill, etc, etc, etc.
Trading and investing is a wonderful way to put money/capital to work earning a handsome and hopefully better than average return. But is it a viable, practical and realistic method for taking small piles of cash and quickly turning them into large piles? I don’t think so, slow and steady, time and pressure seem to rule in this business. :17: Probably not the answer you’re looking for.
I agree 100% with this.
The only answer i was looking for was your honest opinion and you have given me exactly that, despite having to break down in tears to do it lol Thanks!
The big account is definitley a focal point in this mission.
Now following on from that i would like to ask you, and please…no tears this time 
Now, The low risk exponential thing whereby half the profit is generated in the final year etc Do you have any similar information on how many people have achieved this?
It seems as the major part of the profit is essentially deffered which fits with how the mind works…[I] i’m getting a little bit as i go along and there will be a big pay off at the end[/I]…but along comes year 7 and we don’t double up or on year 4 for a single day i loose my mind the day the US announce a war with Switzerland so i go in heavy on the Argentine peso which sets off a string of events …well you know the rest…
What i’m getting at is … by assuming a lower risk by how much does the likelihood of success increase taking into account that at year 7 most of these guys who think they will be sitting at Donald trumps private table actually won’t be?
Is it 0.0000001% or 1000000%…(by high risk i don’t mean kamikhazee by the way i mean some sort of managed rules based risk profile)
I really don’t know.
But I do think the answer might be somewhere within your “effort to reward ratio” concept.
How much do you have to be earning to feel you’re getting a fair reward for your time and risk. The answer is probably as unique and as varied as what’s your favorite song or meal?
Here take a look, seems to apply to traders as well as children, LOL! Stanford marshmallow experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
d-pip,
Touché, LOL am aware of this study and concepts of instant and delayed gratification…psychology 101
Lets flip it…would you prefer to wait 3 years to receive nothing or 7 years to receive nothing?
At what point on the risk reward/ risk of ruin curve does taking that 3 year shot become “reasonable”?
If we had the data…
Brilliant point! Will continue to follow
[QUOTE=“d-pip;618974”] I really don’t know. But I do think the answer might be somewhere within your “effort to reward ratio” concept. How much do you have to be earning to feel you’re getting a fair reward for your time and risk. The answer is probably as unique and as varied as what’s your favorite song or meal? Here take a look, seems to apply to traders as well as children, LOL! Stanford marshmallow experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
You already have your answer. My theory is Minimal work pays maximum profit in forex on an actual trading day basis. More work = less pay. Those who tend to over work themselves, analyze to deeply, go through too many loops are the ones that fail. Those who have the simplest but most advanced ideas that take a short period of time to execute are the top 1%. When I refer to time spent, I mean time spent using the system, not time spent in developing it.
I’m not 100% sure but I think I get what you’re asking.
Learning to become a trader is a lot like music lessons, take 10 students, same instrument, same instructor, same lessons, same hours of practice, etc, etc, etc, and you’ll end up with some superstars, some students that are okay and some that suck.
Whether we like it or not, talent plays a role in who the top performers are. Hard to prove it’s not the same in trading.
So maybe after an honest assessment, traders need to rate themselves.
If you have [B]real evidence[/B] you’re a “superstar”, sure double down and swing for the fences, play the high risk game.
If you’re “okay”, maybe best to play it safe never risking more than 2% to 5% or quit go home and try something else with your life.
If you realize you “suck”, start a web site and teach! 
Personally, I traded FX for a year and a half before coming to the realization that I was an “okay” trader and not a “superstar”. Ironically, that’s when I changed my goals and my trading started to improve.
Does that help?
[QUOTE=“d-pip;618989”] I’m not 100% sure but I think I get what you’re asking. Learning to become a trader is a lot like music lessons, take 10 students, same instrument, same instructor, same lessons, same hours of practice, etc, etc, etc, and you’ll end up with some superstars, some students that are okay and some that suck. Whether we like it or not, talent plays a role in who the top performers are. Hard to prove it’s not the same in trading. So maybe after an honest assessment, traders need to rate themselves. If you have real evidence you’re a “superstar”, sure double down and swing for the fences, play the high risk game. If you’re “okay”, maybe best to play it safe never risking more than 2% to 5% or go home. If you realize you “suck”, start a web site and teach! Personally, I traded FX for a year and a half before coming to the realization that I was an “okay” trader and not a “superstar”. Ironically, that’s when I changed my goals and my trading started to improve. Does that help?[/QUOTE]
Another brilliant response. I hope to someday be an okay trader. I’m releasing this more than ever… Okay traders make money! I may risk high currently, but do think about this. There is a hidden advantage in high risk trading, and I am not speaking simply about profits. Take the gain/loss out of the equation. What can high risk prove? Long term system sustainability under any risk level. If you are able to make a model that risks high but is still able to sustain itself over many decades, you have a system that can withstand pretty much any economic condition. I’m testing my system with high risk also to motivate me to push harder for higher accuracy ratings which is clearly the first step in system sustainability. Yes I’m trading macro, but it is necessary for ongoing forward testing. Demo would not prove anything. Cheers
On a slightly different note - Ive got to ask. How do you propose to ensure that 3,4,5 traders operate in harmony, respect each other and the system, and that individual traders do not get upset with each other when they have done well within the group and other members have not? and what about agreement or disagreement on specific trading actions. One wants to something, the other not, etc etc
So while I really agree with the combined brain power, and definitely agree with the benefits of a co-operative system, The rules of engagement so to speak, also need to be crystal clear to whoever takes part.
Opinions?
What your music analagy comes down to is the Nature versus Nurture argument. I once heard a footballer, who at the time was considered the best in the league and was also the highest paid say , " It doesn’t matter how hard you work, if you don’t have the talent you won’t be “The BEST” (singular… not one of the best). Now considering he trained his whole career amongst the “best of the rest” and had that inside knowledge…it sounds like there is something to that.
BUT… on the other side are you familiar with this? The Complete TurtleTrader: How 23 Novice Investors Became Overnight Millionaires: Michael W. Covel: 9780061241710: Amazon.com: Books
If not google the trader who started the turtle trading experiment Richard Dennis
In your case you say your results improved when you changed your goals which is in effect saying…you reduced your expectation which increased your comfort zone resulting in more cash banked.
The loss on the other hand is that your original goal or the potential profits were abandoned.
Now depending on your definition of success is there a risk that what you have actually achieved is a slower way of not achieving what you really want to achieve with the residual benefit of some starbucks money? And is it the reduction in speed in not achieving your goal contributing to your feeling being more satisfied?
Essentially…have you found a way not to achieve your ultimate goal in a manner that suits you better?
Please don’t get upset or flame me for these questions, unless you really have to of course, there is no malice in what i am asking. What i’m trying to get out of this is as follows…
Does a person who develops a belief system on trading based on their experience cut themselves off permanently from potential which may allow them to achieve their goal at a later point or does that protective stance they adopt have value in achieving their ultimate goal?
By the way… no disrepect to the good teachers out there…but i hate those scam artists too who’s slogan should be…i couldnt make it in trading but i can teach you to lose at a slower rate for a fee and those fees hopefully one day; if i’m lucky may cover my losses and get me a car or 2.
I absolutely agree that high risk requires higher accuracy.
Could you please explain further … if you create a system that works over along period of time assuming high risk; why would you then bother with low risk? Isn’t the idea to make as much money as possible without going broke… therefore wouldn’t i always want to have a higher value per pip than a lower value in order to achieve my goal assuming that the system works?
Absolutely BlueHenry, Project management and the framework you put down is key to achieving the pre-defined outcome in an acceptable manner to the group in any project in any area of life. The more skill and experience in project management and the greater the understanding of personality types etc the greater the liklihood of a functioning group.
If the members are truly passionate about getting something done then together they should be able to come up with a plan together which meets their needs in full or to an acceptable to each individual level. You are spot on!
The thing is," you can have to many cooks in the kitchen"…
If you build a team, the team must consists of members that have DIFFERENT expertness in certain areas of the business.
You need to understand the many branches of Forex…
A short term trader, a long term trader, a master at fundamental annalists, a master at Technician indicators,
Then, you have all the info, all the road blocks, all the news releases, harmony in the indicates.
You dont play with 5 QBs, …
When these things are aligned properly, great things could happen… The hard part is, you can call it the application process, or the team building process… How are you going to trust him/her to be on your team, and entrust them with the teams capital?
PRACTICE WORKING TOGETHER!!! Just like in sports… It might not take a year to gel, but it might take a month… Depends how strong they work, and how MUCH THEY WANT IT.
*shruggs, just my 2 cents…