Thought-provoking quotes

I apologize. Where did I say you shouldn’t help?

After this statement, my concern is what happens to @alphahavoc if you decide to stop posting here again, and he cannot receive enough peer support? Would that put him at risk of giving up? If he’s relying on peer support heavily, then possibly. It would be unfortunate for him, wouldn’t it?

Read my post again. I said there’s nothing wrong with peer support. But the majority of encouragement should come from within oneself. Others can disappoint you. But you should strive to not disappoint yourself.

It seems that perhaps you’re disappointed in me right now because of what I posted. What if you were depending on peer support from me? Well, then your motivation might decrease. Trading is too big an endeavor for such vulnerability.

Here it is in numbers. 90% self motivation, 10% peer motivation.

I accept your apology, but there’s no need. I’m not offended at all. I still think you contribute positively to the forum, and I enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree with them or not.

Yup. All true. I appreciate the encouragement. Onward and upward! Let’s go!!

If we are talking about trading here then I think one needs to clearly differentiate between commitment and obsession.
I think there is value in considering “Do I trade to live or live to trade?”.

Should trading be so obsessive that we shut out everything else from our lives? Is it really that difficult that we need to go to that kind of extreme?

Personally, I think the main goal is to be satisfied with what we do with our lives as a whole and not in just one area of it. Life is about compromise in many ways and we rarely achieve total satisfaction in any one area of it.

One very important area in life is surely our relationships with other people in our lives. Can we do the best for them as well as be 100% obsessed with our own ambitions? Can we let them do what they want to do for us if we are obsessed with our own ambitions?

Commitment and dedication are integral functions of being focused on markets. So are discipline and patience. But trading is just a business like any other. If we set the right rules and apply those same rules then we are most likely to succeed. I don’t really think trading is anything more transcendental than that?

Trading may be a core part of our lives - but should it be all of it, to the exclusion of all else? Is obsession ultimately a positive or negative influence?

It is certainly something to think about! :slight_smile:

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Obsession exacts a heavy price. ¨The hardest decisions require the strongest will.¨

You can be obsessed to the point where you neglect a lot of things in your life. Like I said, a heavy price.

However, Eric Thomas, a speaker I like, he is obsessed with his work. That’s how he provided for his wife to get her medication which cost $10k a month. However, he’s also obsessed with his marriage, and his family.

This is paradoxical because a multi-faceted obsession requires balance. And balance is a contradiction to obsession. But, as he’s obsessed with his work, his marriage and his family, he eliminates a lot of other things from his life in a very strict way. He will skip watching sports, or hanging out with negative people, etc.

He’s obsessed with his work, but at the same time, he explained that his wife takes naps and wants him present with her until she falls asleep. So, he stays with her until she falls asleep, then he can go back to work.

He defined obsession for himself. One can argue that obsession is unhealthy, but everyone’s gotta make their own choice, and define it for themselves.

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I am sure we are talking about the same thing here, but words can carry different meanings for different people.

For me, there is a big difference between obsession and, for example, dedication. I see it that “obsession” is where the object(ive) itself controls the mind, whereas, dedication, devotion, perseverance, etc is where the mind is in control over the object(ive).

When obsession about something takes over the mind then rational thinking goes out the window. Sometimes that may be advantageous but generally is very dangerous… for example, if a trader is obsessed with the idea of making a lot of money he can carry on even when it is clear it is not working out and end up losing everything - he has become a gambler instead of a rational trader.

Here, I would rather say "devoted to his work, his marriage and his family! ":smiley:

But, like I said, I think we mean the same thing here. :slight_smile:

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Damn words! haha

We can shuffle words around all day long. Perhaps our actions are what define us better.

In that case, I would question what kind of goals does he have. Because he’s failing at his obsession. If he’s obsessed with making money, he will be willing to give up just about anything to trade better.

Becoming a gambler sounds like a man spiraling out of control, not towards his goal. If he’s obsessed about becoming a profitable trader, he’ll abandon even his own beloved strategy if that’s what it takes to become profitable. He’ll give up females, parties, friends, dining out, etc, and just study his tail off until he reaches his goal.

We can interchange ¨obsessed¨ with ¨addicted¨. One can be obsessed/addicted with anything. It could positive or negative. It just depends what you are obsessed with. Are you obsessed with going to the Olympics, or binge-eating? Profitable trading or the thrill of trading?

The idea itself is not bad. It just depends on what the object of obsession/addiction is.

@SovoS What do you think? If someone is obsessed with the THRILL of trading, he might not care about developing his strategy further. He might just go from strategy to strategy, random trade to random trade, and constantly blow accounts; and never change.

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Actually, I have a question for you, considering your experience with trading and time spent on this forum…

I know this has been discussed on other threads, but I’m curious about YOUR opinion.

What factors separate those new traders who are determined to find their way to profitability, vs those who eventually give up/move on to something else?

But when one is obsessed then they do not recognise their failure. They are blind to it. They will just keep going until there is nothing left to keep going with - which is when even the loan sharks say enough is enough!!

I think the key underlying issue here is “control”. If one is obsessed with something (it can even be a person) then they no longer think rationally and objectively. They are incapable of seeing the reality and entirety of the situation.

This does not mean that their aims are doomed to failure. With any luck they will succeed. But if things do not go according to plan, then they are not likely to recognise the reality of their situation and will continue to live the illusion of achieving their goal until they finally hit the brick wall.

The point is whether the goal itself is driving a blinkered, distorted mind or whether the mind remains objective, rational and in control of the situation.

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Yes. That could be. I think for some, when their eyes are on the prize and nothing else, a failure is just a stepping stone. Imagine if Thomas Edison gave up before inventing the light bulb.

From google:

As an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb. When a reporter asked, “How did it feel to fail 1,000 times?” Edison replied, “I didn’t fail 1,000 times.”

We can use different words, but refusing to quit is a mindset. How encouraging!!

I should have posted Thomas Edison sooner! haha

This is a good question! :smiley:
I don’t claim to have any absolute truths about it but I do have some opinions on the matter. :slight_smile:

One could start with a question:

  • Why does a person work as a forex trader in a bank if he only receives a salary, and maybe a small bonus for achievement, while he is earning a lot more money for his employer?

Clearly, the answer is not the dream of making a huge fortune!

And I think this is a clue to the difference between the mindset of those that persevere and get there and those that rush in and crash out.

A retail trader is a self-employed manager of his/her own business. Those that stay the course are those that want this kind of business and take pride in building it along the same lines as any other successful business. It includes selecting the right products, strategies, targets and risk exposure. It requires a plan and review procedures. It involves continuous education, skills development, and awareness of developments within the industry and relevant markets.

Imagine that you are going to see a bank manager for a business loan to start a new business. What is the bank manager going to ask and want to see? These are the same things that a trader needs to look at.

But that is not enough. The successful trader also needs to have a strong personal interest in the markets and a whole string of personal attributes that match and counter the pressures and demands that occur along the way. Above all, they also need to be able to manage themselves as a sole employer/employee, which takes a lot of discipline.

I would also add that the successful trader is one who can focus on the overall position over time and not just on the current trade. For example, revenge trading is usually driven by irritation over a loss on one particular trade. This is not good business. We all know that losing trades is part of the business just like the overheads in any other form of business. A balanced business trader has already accepted a level of losses and will only be comcerned if they stem from rogue trades or start to total more than planned.

Well, that¨s just a few thoughts off the top of my head. There is certainly a lot more meat on this particular bone… :slight_smile:

Ah but that does not mean he was “obsessed”! :smiley:

He just knew what was possible and had the tenacity and drive to work at it… :slight_smile:

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True.

Do you have any suggestions for when motivation is low?

Do you mean in general or in trading?

With trading I think emotions run the full range and one has to accept that - and I think one gets accustomed to it, too!

I had a low spell only last week. Here is a chart extract of one of my regular markets, the US30. My mainTF is 1H and I tend to look for new brief moves of a few hours driven by fresh momentum, i.e. surfing the new waves (I don’t call these “trends” on such a short term chart). So a quick look at the rectangle in this chart from last week will give a clear guess how my trading went through that period! :slight_smile:

It happens from time to time and is anticipated and recognised - but still demotivates when there is a string of losses.

Some would say that In these situations it is best to walk away and take a break. But I usually just turn to another instrument, usually forex like EU,GU or EG and just punt a few quick trades off the 15min chart. IT doesn’t earn that much but it rekindles my interest.

I think it is important to try to analyse precisely what is causing the lack of motivation in order to judge the best solution. For me, trading is not about making big money, for me it is similar to a game of chess where I have to pick a strategy and choose my moves and anticipate those of the “opponent”, the market. So winning for me is about outsmarting the market and therefore losses means the market was smarter! :smiley: That is ok in general, but if I get a string of losses then… :angry:

But then it is always worth checking why such a situation arises and if there is doubt that the strategy is faulty then one can immerse oneself in dismantling the strategy elements, check and change if necessary. This is also a good time to maybe check back on some of those books that one read and already forgotten about!

But I think one practice that helps avoid a dented motivation is to plan one’s trading in detail. Then one can, and should, compare performance with the plan as time evolves and evaluate the differences, good and bad, and make any necessary changes to the plan. The plan becomes a living component of the overall business and is, in itself, the prime motivator.

All businesses have good and bad periods and it is important to always know where you stand compared with the “big picture”. Each single trade is (or at least should be!) only one small piece in the jigsaw. If it doesn’t fit, try another - just don’t lose sight of the finished picture - a bit like Thomas Edison! :smiley:

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It sounds like you learned what is best for you. Was that a process for you? Did you have times that you did walk away and take a breather?

So true! I’ve gone back to the drawing board so many times! And still do! I like the word you used. ¨Immerse¨. I feel like you can immerse yourself, and try to figure it out sooner, or drag it out over years. Possibly forever. I think just about any strategy can be profitable.
If you gave me your strategy, I’m sure that we would get different results. We are two separate individuals with different brains and different tendencies. Eventually, I’m gonna morph your strategy into something else. But, if I stay at it, I can turn it back into a winning strategy that’s tailored for me.

But to do that, like you said, you gotta dismantle the strategy elements and see what’s going on. It’s a frustrating process. And sometimes you feel like you’re chasing your own tail! haha. That’s when patience and persistence pay off. Keep adjusting and checking results.

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I think it is always a process. I think the question is whether the process is a straight line or a long and winding road! :slight_smile:

As I mentioned to you, my first years in forex trading were in a commercial bank forex dept. If one was having a bad day you didn’t just go home! Actually, the vast bulk of work there was not speculative trading at all. It was mainly customer driven: customer orders and covering the bank’s own related exposures. One had a personal limit to take speculative positions, but there was always a lot of other routine work that had to be dealt with. The day always started with a group meeting discussing markets, orders, exposures, etc. So one’s speculative trading was always only a small spot on the big picture. One doesn’t get emotional about that, especially when it is the bank’s money anyway!

But once I changed employers and started as a retail trader, it was a very different environment. It did actually take several years to fully adapt to small scale positioning and exposures and targets and stops - and risking one’s own money.

But I think the key is still to have a “big picture”, a structured and detailed plan about how one is going to trade, what strategy, what instruments, what risk exposures, etc. Then one is no longer blinkered and “obsessed” with just the current trade. It is only a one step in the plan. And it is the plan that is monitored and adjusted as necessary, or desired, as time unfolds. In this way, the process evolves in a continuous, systematic, and progressive manner.

It is often said that a good trader can profit even with a poor strategy, but a poor trader will never succeed even with the best strategy. And I think the message lies clearly in that statement.

As you say, different people will obtain different results even with the same strategy (unless it is automated). And the clear reason for this is that the result is down to the trader and not the strategy at all. And yet we spend nearly all our time focusing on strategies instead of on the real issue - the trader himself! :slight_smile:

You are absolutely correct that no one would trade my strategy the way I do because it is so discretionary and a lot of the decision input comes from outside the chart itself. I only have a few MA’s on my charts, nothing more. It is enough. But I do look a lot at other external factors as an overlay on top of what the charts are suggesting. This is surely what “discretionary” means?

One of the key attributes of the trader himself is knowing when not to trade. The market does not kindly offer up a trade every day and we shouldn’t force a trade onto it. Then there are upcoming data releases, public holidays, global events, even weekends, when we need to think carefully about what we are doing.

But these are topics that have been discussed many times everywhere. I am just trying to emphasise that the strategy itself is not the answer to success, it is you, the trader. All strategies are built from the left hand side of current price - but we are concerned with what happens on the right hand side of that price. The skill in reading the likelihoods and probabilities on that side is where the money lies - and only then if adequate risk/management criteria are observed.

Just some thoughts, all of which are entirely personal and not intended to influence anyone else. Everyone has their own views on these issues - but they are worth talking about anyway! :smiley:

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Happened to see this on a BP page:

“The discipline of writing something down is the first step toward making it happen.”
Lee Iacocca

Therein lies the value of writing out your strategy in full and in concrete terms and journalling your trades in the light of that strategy.

It focuses your mind, clarifies your intentions, and identifies your successes and errors. You avoid spontaneous and revenge trading, it develops discipline and patience and also provides a reliable source of data with which to evaluate your strategy and results over time.

This is a rather different type of quote - but thought-provoking nonetheless…

I was reading an article on Investing,com which seemed very knowledgeable, informative and well-written…

…and then at the end of the article was the last line:

"Disclaimer: This article was generated with the assistance of an artificial intelligence tool. "

Is this the way we are going to follow the markets in the future? Will the majority of traders be informed and influenced by the output from AI?

I find this rather disturbing :thinking:

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Certainly! Here are some thought-provoking quotes for you:

“The only way to do great work is to love what you do.” - Steve Jobs

“In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity.” - Sun Tzu

“The best way to predict the future is to create it.” - Peter Drucker

“Your time is limited, don’t waste it living someone else’s life.” - Steve Jobs

“The biggest risk is not taking any risk. In a world that’s changing quickly, the only strategy that is guaranteed to fail is not taking risks.” - Mark Zuckerberg

These quotes can inspire reflection, motivation, and new perspectives. Use them as prompts for deeper contemplation or share them in relevant discussions to spark interesting conversations.

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Thankyou, @KaziTanzib for your contributions to the thread, they are very relevant. :slightly_smiling_face:

From a trading perspective, I would qualify Mark Zuckerberg’s quote by emphasising that we are not dealing with just taking “any risk”, we are working with quantified and managed risk. Just taking a risk, any risk, is gambling and not trading.

The only way we can make a profit is by being in the market. And being in the market means we are taking a risk. Therefore it is crucial that we identify, limit and manage our risk exposure with respect to our anticipated gains and, perhaps even more importantly, with respect to our account equity.

Thanks again for the contributions! :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

Hello Sovo!
The one by the illustrious Jesse Livermore,

Markets are never wrong; opinions often are.

I accept all my mistakes and losses by just reminding myself of this sentence.