Trading currency without knowledge of macroeconomics

Hello there, it’s been quite a while since I last visited babypips…
University lectures just started and I’ve been quite busy adjusting to this home to libarary routine.
The modules I have chosen are all probability and statistics course(I’m doing Maths). I try to apply any Maths tools I learned to the chart analysis but I just don’t know what I’m doing yet. There is a course called ‘Applied time series’ and I think it has something to do with chart analysis. It’s quite interesting.

I think I need to revise the pipschool materials and boost my interest again. See you often.

Chao

I studied Religion and Anthropology in college and have absolutely no training in economics, but I’ve been trading successfully for a while now.

If you’re just doing technical trading you’ll be fine, and your math major (unlike mine) will probably help you quite a bit.

Unless you’re doing some advanced fundamental analysis you don’t need economics. :slight_smile:

I agree that you don’t really need to know the whats & whys of macroeconomics, but I think do think it’s important to know WHEN economic news releases are scheduled. :wink:

For long term positions/trades I would say an understanding of fundamentals and macroeconomics is essential.

Because the economic situation of a particular country expressed in it’s particular currency takes time before it is reflected in the xchange rates.

You would want to factor that into your long term position/trade so you are not getting caught on the wrong side.

For short term trades and if you purely a TA Trader macroeconomics won’t matter.

[B]iloveforex, [/B]

I agree with both Phil and Sweet Pip. You don’t need an education in economics in order to succeed in forex trading. You don’t even need to pay attention to scheduled economic news releases, such as Non-Farm Payroll reports, or CPI figures — when these reports are due, just get out of the way, and wait until the dust settles.

The best traders are not trained economists, mathematicians, computer scientists or engineers. In fact, experts in those four disciplines actually have a disadvantage, compared to their less-educated brethren, when it comes to trading skill. The reason for this is somewhat counter-intuitive. Any discipline which trains you to use [B]the correct procedure [/B]to get [B]the right answer[/B] will handicap you as a trader. Trading just doesn’t work that way.

Engineers are at the greatest disadvantage, because their careers are based on designing things to work in precisely the intended way. Engineers who attempt forex trading struggle with the seeming randomness and irrationality of the market. The idea that success is defined as getting it right 60% or 70% or 80% of the time, is contrary to everything engineers have been trained to do. Imagine an engineer claiming professional success based on the fact that more than half of his buildings and bridges didn’t fail.

Economists — to address your question more directly — are probably more tolerant of probabilistic outcomes than engineers are. But, they still labor under the illusion that there is some predictability to the future. The forex market teaches us that predicting is for fools.

For those trained to believe that outcomes can be determined in advance, immersion in probability theory and/or poker is likely the best remedy. An engineer who can shift mental gears, and learn to play poker successfully, can likely become a successful forex trader.

As a math major, your emphasis on probability and statistics will be an asset, not a liability, in the uncertain and probabilistic world of trading.

So, if engineers, economists and other highly-educated folk are not predisposed to forex success, who is? I once heard a forex trainer say that the people most naturally inclined to succeed in forex trading are: pilots, women and children. He gave the following explanation.

[B]Pilots[/B] are trained to trust their instruments and to deal with adverse situations according to established procedures. Applied to forex trading, this translates to trusting your strategy and your indicators, and following your trading rules.

As traders, [B]women[/B] are much less insistent than men on being proven right, when trades go against them. (In dealings [B]with men[/B], on the other hand, women are always right! If you doubt that, just ask them.)

And, finally, [B]children[/B] are perfectly comfortable with the cause-and-effect aspect of video games, without asking “why” the game unfolds as it does. And this translates directly to an affinity for rapid, electronic trading in which price-action is everything, and the drivers of the price-action are irrelevant.

I’ve never known whether that trainer’s spiel should be taken at face value, or whether it was all tongue-in-cheek. It certainly entertained the class for five minutes.

Of all the academic subjects you could study, to enhance your trading skills — in addition to probability theory, which you are already studying — I think psychology (and maybe game-theory) would be near the top of the list.

Good luck with your schooling, and stay in touch.

Clint

Maths/probability and statistics and even a bit of chaos theory will be interesting stuff to learn to apply to general trading and you can even become a technical analyst in a financial house before indulging in your own trading and money. This is the root that some traders started from. You do not need to be a rocket scientist and neither a barrow boy. Trading is not gambling or playing dice games. It requires a lot of self discipline and analytical skills. That is the ability to look for a signal among all the pedestals and confusing indicators. The lessons in probability will come handy. Above all it is about one’s ability to make correct decisions when information at hand is scarce and assumptive.

IMO It always helps to know “why” about doing things rather than just “how” to do it or mechanically following something like an indicator. Adequate knowledge plus a pragmatic approach to decision making process in trading (as opposed to rigid view of life) and sound money management that requires basic maths skills are all very relevant. I do not subscribe to the university of life stuff. To start trading properly you need to have some capital and you need to understand the value of money and most of all accept the fact that you can be wrong at times and you have to mitigate the circumstances.

And finally as I stated before the opposite of a good trader is a compulsive trader/gambler (and there are a fair number of them around). At extremes that is, a man who gambled simply to gamble and must lose. As a hero who goes to war must die. Show me a gambler and I’ll show you a loser, show me a hero and I’ll show you a corpse. (Mario Puzo in Fools Die)

HTH

Mich

That is just so inspiring to know. One would always think that you have to be really, really good with numbers, analyzing economic developments and all that to be able to trade well. Now, I am starting to believe that you do not need to have a PhD to trade forex. Thanks for the encouragement, Clint.

:slight_smile:

I agree with you when I read that thread especially the statement “Any discipline which trains you to use the correct procedure to get the right answer will handicap you as a trader. Trading just doesn’t work that way.” Well I guess if we take this quote at its face value then a great many of us are already handicaped!

How about this definition about the profile of a certain trader (not pointing to anyone) who accordingly should do well!

He is around 50 years old, married, educated through University of life and keeps his money under his pillow. In a great many cases he is not a happy man. He gets up in the morning, looks in the mirror which brings unhappy thoughts. He looks back at his youth and realizes that professionally he is not anywhere near his classmates. The kids are grown up and have their own lives; they talk to him only when they need money. He is fedup of his wife but cannot afford a divorce. The man sights, gets into his car, and drives to the office. Not much joy or excitement there either. Unless of course this guy puts his lucky Las Vegas hat on (oh yes he makes a pilgrimage there once or twice a year), logs in to his trading account, tosses a coin and does a buy/sell order. Suddenly adrenaline starts flushing in. Of course he prefers winning to losing, but even losing provides plenty of kicks, making him feel excited, connected and alive! Luckily he has a deeper pocket than others.

It was a real weight off my shoulders. Thank u so much.

I somewhat disagree with this (though this is coming from a very unexperienced trader). I have to say that just because someone is taught how to be precise… doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t understand that trying to “predict” price movement is impossible.

The reason being that there are literally an unlimited amount of variables that can effect movement. This being the case, no one strategy can take into account all these variables. If we can not take all these into account but can take into account a few… then we may be able to increase our probability of being correct. If someone that is educated can understand this… than I don’t think having been trained in any discipline would hamper ones chance at being successful just because they are taught about something that is precise.

I think understanding trading in forex would have to be considered a discipline in and of itself. Therefore any study of alternative disciplines could never really hamper ones chance in trading… yet some could assist in the understanding of certain portions of trading (i.e. economist’s understanding of fundamental analyses, statistician’s understand technical analyses).

I really keep myself isolated from the outside world and paying attention to what people say. A good instance of this is that a couple of days ago we were told that the GDP was all good. My indicators are not buying into it and all the people I speak with are not buying it. Knowing too much can give a trader another excuse not to trade. Taking a look at every little thing is a sure way to fail in this game.

I strongly disagree that math, computer science or engineering would work against you. In Math and in CS there is a considerable amount of study devoted to probability, statistics, Game Theory, Chaos Fractals and Dynamics as well as Neural Networks/AI gaming systems. In fact, they actually teach students how to beat the odds in vegas style gambling and in stock markets… believe it or not at lectures in advanced math classes at top engineering universities.

With regard to saying that Engineers can’t do well in trading or in gambling, how about the MIT Engineers that Brought down the house in Vegas for millions?

There is a reason why they say " MIT PHD == M-O-N-E-Y". Many many Physics and Math PHDs from MIT end up working Wall Street hedge funds each year.

So I wouldn’t be so quick to discount an engineer if I were you.

:smiley:

IMHO: The more data you try to throw into the mix, the more removed you are from what is happening right in front of your eyes. Your “math” tells you one thing, but PA is telling you something else. Which do you want to believe? Sometimes we can be too smart by half.

Trade what you see.

V